immelman question

[Antabires]

is this allowed----

straight----reverse-----straight-----reverse----straight

or should always be----

straight - reverse- straight - straight -reverse - straight

thks in advanced

[MoonSylver]

#1 totally allowed. The last Straight of your previous Immelmann can be the first Straight of your next one. ;)

[Boney10]

By the rules it don't say you can't, by doing so you in effect do a 360 turn which did happen , so go for it

[LOOP]

About the immelmann-turn. We ran into a...... well.... not a problem but rather a matter of some debate, the last time we played ;)
We have allways been allowed to shoot in the same turn as the immelmann-card was used and no one payed much though of that until last week.
You could argue that the aircraft doing a split-S or an Immelmann (or wing-over ets), in some point must be vertical. There for not able to shoot horizontsally.
You start with a straight (stall) and end with a straight (dive on powerdive, if used) We agreed on the aircraft being vertical just on the Immelmann-card and there for not able to shoot.
We also agreed on an aircraft doing an Immelmann-turn is regarded as one level higher when playing the reverse-card. That means that aircrafts on the same level must be in half a ruler to be able to shoot
but an aircraft one level up can shoot as if on the same level. Somewhat simulating the the effect of the climb needed.
Thoughts anyone!!!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I would say that as the Immelmann only adds one climb counter, it will not effect shooting distance Per-Gunnar.
Also a pilot could get off a shot as he came out of the Immelmann. Snap shooting at a fleeting moments notice was often done. What the chances of a successful hit are is a moot point ,however.
Rob.

[7eat51]

If the Immelmann results in an additional peg, or the Split-S in a loss of a peg, then distance could become a factor depending upon the elevation of the target plane.

The question about being vertical and not being able to shoot horizontally would depend upon how long a given maneuver card simulates real time, I would think. If the card encompasses several seconds of real time, I wouldn't think playing the card would pose any problem.

[PFactorDave]

An Immelman in the WW1 sense, really (in my opinion) only gain altitude during the reverse portion of the maneuver, which it also loses. The straight before it AND the straight after it should be at the same altitude.

I can definitely see an argument for no shooting during the reversal portion of the maneuver. Always have to remember that a WW1 Immelmen really looks more like what we would call an Hammerhead now.


All that said, the rules don't read that way now, and I am perfectly happy playing the game as the rules are written.


A split S definitely loses altitude.

[LOOP]

To clarify a little what we meant. When you played the last straight In the immelmann you only end up with one climbcounter.
But to do the turn you must get to a higher altitude to be able to stall your aircraft. And it is this stalling-altitute we are after.
It's only on this point that you have the extra peg.
In the matter of a split-s, you only loose a counter but your aircraft is flighing vertital on the revers-card and only on the reverse card.
The same as in the immelmann-turn.
You could take climbrate in consideration and say that you gain an extra climbcounter in the highpoint of the immelmann.
A counter that you loose on the last straight. A fastclimbing aircraft like the fokker DVII (with no counters) rise a level on the top
and looses it again on the way down, just keeping the one climbcounter. Slower-climbing models only rise if they have gain the remaining counters before the immelmann.

Well mayby we have done some overthinking on this.
But it is fun to make changes that give an extra dimension to the game.
And I really enjoy discussing things here on the forum.

[flash]

.... When you played the last straight In the immelmann you only end up with one climb counter....
You should get the climb counter when you play the Immelmann card when the actual turn is executed - that will give you the altitude you seek.
I'm with David here though - and would say the WW1 Immel starts and finishes at the same altitude unlike the modern Immel which is a half loop.
I play my own simple altitude rules and have the aircraft gain a peg on the first straight - turn (no firing) - and lose a peg on the second straight. You chaps just have to come to a consensus of how you want to play it. ;)