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Lt. S.Kafloc
08-02-2013, 15:43
I would love to see a version of the Mosquito (if it ever becomes a mini), with the 6 pounder conversion in the bomb bay for attacking submarines. From the experts in our club having seen a veteran pilot discus this on some show or other, it would seem to be the only time, when the 6 pounder was fired, that everything stopped. All the dials reset to zero the engines stopped, all for a split second and then it was like full thrust immediately afterwards throwing the whole plane forward. And whoever designed the mount must have did a good job as nothing shook loose.

Perhaps one of our onsite experts could expand this?

Baldrick62
08-03-2013, 01:24
The show that you refer to was 'The Plane that saved Britain' which showed on C4 a couple of weeks ago. http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?15732-The-Plane-That-Saved-Britain&highlight=mosquito

As a 1/144 player, you have the choice of Bandai or F-Toys for an FB-nosed Mosquito which could then be converted to a Tsetse.

Carl_Brisgamer
08-03-2013, 06:53
I would love to see a version of the Mosquito (if it ever becomes a mini), with the 6 pounder conversion in the bomb bay for attacking submarines. From the experts in our club having seen a veteran pilot discus this on some show or other, it would seem to be the only time, when the 6 pounder was fired, that everything stopped. All the dials reset to zero the engines stopped, all for a split second and then it was like full thrust immediately afterwards throwing the whole plane forward. And whoever designed the mount must have did a good job as nothing shook loose.

Perhaps one of our onsite experts could expand this?

Physics - equal and opposite reaction as the airframe absorbed the recoil. It was not restricted to the Mosquito. Beaufighters had a similar effect when firing all four 20mm guns, the same with German heavy cannon armed aircraft. Even Spitfire V pilots mentioned when firing their 20mm cannon if one jammed the recoil from the other would slew their aircraft around, so they had to apply full opposite rudder to keep the aircraft flying straight.

Lt. S.Kafloc
08-03-2013, 07:02
Thank you now I know I will attempt to watch on catch up TV. Would love to see how this would be simulated and the spitfire slewing with a jam!


The show that you refer to was 'The Plane that saved Britain' which showed on C4 a couple of weeks ago. http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?15732-The-Plane-That-Saved-Britain&highlight=mosquito

As a 1/144 player, you have the choice of Bandai or F-Toys for an FB-nosed Mosquito which could then be converted to a Tsetse.

David Manley
08-03-2013, 07:27
Physics - equal and opposite reaction as the airframe absorbed the recoil.

I once spent an enjoyable few minutes sitting (almost) underneath a WAH-64 Apache in the hover, watching how far back it moved when it fired its 30mm cannon. Physics in action :)

Baldrick62
08-03-2013, 08:17
Would love to see how this would be simulated...

Given the game scale, and the abstraction of movement using the cards, I'd suggest that after firing (and this being for either a Tsetse, Hs129, Bf110C-6, Me410A-1/U4 or any other aircraft equipped with a large calibre (50mm+), forward-firing cannon) the next card played must be a slow speed straight.

Jager
08-03-2013, 08:35
Given the game scale, and the abstraction of movement using the cards, I'd suggest that after firing (and this being for either a Tsetse, Hs129, Bf110C-6, Me410A-1/U4 or any other aircraft equipped with a large calibre (50mm+), forward-firing cannon) the next card played must be a slow speed straight.

Good idea, Baldrick :thumbsup:
Karl

Baldrick62
08-03-2013, 08:43
Would love to see how this would be simulated and the spitfire slewing with a jam!

Thinking about the Spitfire 'problem', it's already catered for. The forward firing arc doesn't simulate an aircraft with fixed weapons simply 'bore-sighted' along the fuselage in the direction of motion (ie, only firing directly to the front); it gives you an arc of fire for an aircraft maintaining forward motion but potentially using rudder input to slew laterally in order to aim at targets not directly in front.

Marechallannes
08-03-2013, 16:28
Given the game scale, and the abstraction of movement using the cards, I'd suggest that after firing (and this being for either a Tsetse, Hs129, Bf110C-6, Me410A-1/U4 or any other aircraft equipped with a large calibre (50mm+), forward-firing cannon) the next card played must be a slow speed straight.

Maybe an automatic speed change from fast to slow would be enough. ;)

Jager
08-03-2013, 18:26
Maybe an automatic speed change from fast to slow would be enough. ;)

If the recoils is enough to slow the aircraft, then the pilot will have his hands full just maintaining control. so a slow-straight makes sense. IMO.
Karl

Carl_Brisgamer
08-04-2013, 02:18
Maybe an automatic speed change from fast to slow would be enough. ;)

The recoil has only a momentary effect, it is not significant in game terms.

Lt. S.Kafloc
08-04-2013, 02:27
Looks like I've 'stirred up the pot' in this debate. Its nice to see how players think this could be simulated.

richard m schwab
08-04-2013, 07:21
A B-25 pilot talked about his experiences in WW2. When he fired all 10 forward .50`s guns in his factory built gunship, there was a hesitation from the recoil. Not to mention the noise and the smoke filling the cockpit.
He never flew the 75mm armed version, but said the 75`s recoil would effect airspeed.

This gentleman flew P-51`s after the war. He stayed an active pilot, he flew F-100`s over Vietnam and retired after 30 years service. He knew aircraft and aircraft weapons!


Rich

Rabbit 3
08-05-2013, 04:23
So it seems that Balders has come up with a cunning plan for handling some planes with very heavy guns.:D
Any thoughts as to how much damage something like a `Tetse` Mosquito, Hs 129, Ju87G, Hurricane MkIId, B-25H or any other "heavy gun" plane might do?

Baldrick62
08-05-2013, 05:05
Any thoughts as to how much damage something like a `Tetse` Mosquito, Hs 129, Ju87G, Hurricane MkIId, B-25H or any other "heavy gun" plane might do?

I would not include either Ju87G (37mm) or Hurricane IID (40mm) as a 'heavy gun'-armed aircraft. The discriminator I suggested at #6 was 50mm, so actually the Bf110C-6 should be dropped too.

Regarding damage, it depends on the surface target (armoured or soft-skinned, metal, brick, wood, canvas) but as far as a one-in-a-million air-air shot goes 'The Bf 110 G-2/R1 was also capable of accepting armament such as the Bordkanone series 37 mm (1.46 in) BK 3,7 autofed cannon, mounted in a conformal ventral gun pod under the fuselage. A single hit from this weapon was enough to destroy any Allied bomber.'

csadn
08-05-2013, 15:27
Frankly, I'm not buying it -- usually the acft. firing was traveling well over 200MPH; to bring it to a stop, even for a moment, would involve forces equivalent to hitting a cement wall at full-speed... and there's cursed-few acft. which can do that and not end up as a wreck. I can see a *slight* reduction in speed, noticeable from the pilot's seat, but not significant to the game; and some problem with asymmetric fire if one of those cannons jams (as they so often did); but nothing which would manifest on the game board.

Flying Officer Kyte
08-11-2013, 02:30
I would love to see a version of the Mosquito (if it ever becomes a mini), with the 6 pounder conversion in the bomb bay for attacking submarines.

Taking up this part of your post Neil, I would also like to see Ares produce a Mosquito. Although it would take me out of my comfort zone of 1940, anything Fleet Air Arm/ Costal Command has an allure for me, and I must get the most out of these ships I'm going to buy.;)
Rob.