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CappyTom
07-21-2013, 14:57
In the video Bloody Foreigners the untold Battle of Britain there is talk of a diary. Does anyone know if it was copied and make into a book as well as being translated to English?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxwxl8gpH1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxwxl8gpH1g

I would love to read about their exploits.
:thumbsup:Thanks for any help,
Thomas

James Denberger
07-21-2013, 19:33
Thanks Tom, very interesting video!

James

crashx
07-21-2013, 22:37
Thanks Tom for posting this!!! :clap::clap::thumbsup:

Naharaht
07-22-2013, 13:39
This video is blocked in the U.K. for copyright reasons.

Nightbomber
07-22-2013, 14:04
This video is blocked in the U.K. for copyright reasons.

I heard a rumor that not only for these reasons.
It was recently on Discovery Channel and I had a chance to record it.

As to Thomas question about the book. I am pretty sure it is based on a real book I read while flying to Origins:
L.Olson & S.Cloud: "A Question of Honor".
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/124552/a-question-of-honor-by-lynne-olson-and-stanley-cloud

Can I say more? Read it if you grab it, chaps. :salute:

Baldrick62
07-22-2013, 14:07
As to Thomas question about the book. I am pretty sure it is based on a real book I read while flying to Origins:
L.Olson & S.Cloud: "A Question of Honor".
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/124552/a-question-of-honor-by-lynne-olson-and-stanley-cloud

Can I say more? Read it if you grab it, chaps. :salute:

How about you provide us a Book Review then?

Nightbomber
07-22-2013, 14:12
I should do it and I will, Balders;)

CappyTom
07-22-2013, 18:18
I heard a rumor that not only for these reasons.
It was recently on Discovery Channel and I had a chance to record it.

As to Thomas question about the book. I am pretty sure it is based on a real book I read while flying to Origins:
L.Olson & S.Cloud: "A Question of Honor".
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/124552/a-question-of-honor-by-lynne-olson-and-stanley-cloud

Can I say more? Read it if you grab it, chaps. :salute:

Thank you Andy, I will soon.
:thumbsup:
Thomas

Baldrick62
07-23-2013, 01:23
Looks like I'm reading the same book at the moment, but in the UK it's been released as 'For Your Freedom and Ours' - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Freedom-Ours-Kosciuszko-Forgotten/dp/0099428121 Suitably scathing of the hollow promises of Western governments, and particularly Churchill, regarding the treatment of Poland both during and after the war.

csadn
07-23-2013, 18:35
Suitably scathing of the hollow promises of Western governments, and particularly Churchill, regarding the treatment of Poland both during and after the war.

<- hums a few bars of Sabaton's "Uprising"

But then: Poland was between Germany and Russia -- what were they expecting to happen? One doesn't live between two crack-houses and expect to be able to keep one's widescreen-TV... or anything else.

Nightbomber
07-23-2013, 23:14
<- hums a few bars of Sabaton's "Uprising"

But then: Poland was between Germany and Russia -- what were they expecting to happen? One doesn't live between two crack-houses and expect to be able to keep one's widescreen-TV... or anything else.

Brutal.
I would strongly oppose that kind of view with unbeatable arguments, but that would lead us to crossing swords, dear Chris. As we are in the forum/subforum where politics are not welcome (which is right) I will stay silent:).
I strongly recommend you read the book we were posting above, Chris. In a way, it's not very convenient. However, the airwar part of it is exciting.

Jager
07-24-2013, 03:31
<- hums a few bars of Sabaton's "Uprising"

But then: Poland was between Germany and Russia -- what were they expecting to happen? One doesn't live between two crack-houses and expect to be able to keep one's widescreen-TV... or anything else.


Brutal.
I would strongly oppose that kind of view with unbeatable arguments, but that would lead us to crossing swords, dear Chris. As we are in the forum/subforum where politics are not welcome (which is right) I will stay silent:).
I strongly recommend you read the book we were posting above, Chris. In a way, it's not very convenient. However, the airwar part of it is exciting.

Crudely put, but he has a point, Andrzej. It is the unfortunate situation of a smaller nation between two larger ones with dreams of empire. Consider the situation of Burgundy in the 15th cen.
Now the situation of Poland and it's Western allies was that Poland was expecting Germany to be deterred by the threat from France (backed by England); that proved to be an empty threat, at least in terms of helping Poland (or even France, as it turned out). As Russia was approaching Poland and Germany, any effort of the West to keep Eastern Europe out of Russian hands (in effect) would only have been effective under a threat of war, which the West was not prepared to do, and may not have been able to pull off, except over several years. And the home politics would never have allowed for it. So promises from the West were empty.
Karl

7eat51
07-24-2013, 06:18
As to Thomas question about the book. I am pretty sure it is based on a real book I read while flying to Origins:
L.Olson & S.Cloud: "A Question of Honor".
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/124552/a-question-of-honor-by-lynne-olson-and-stanley-cloud

Can I say more? Read it if you grab it, chaps. :salute:

Just ordered it Andrzej. Thanks for the recommendation. I am currently reading a book on the Battle of Britain, given my recent addition of WGS. I have a lot of catching up to do with WWII aviation reading. Any other notable recommendations are welcome. I will write a review of the book I am reading when finished.

Amazon's link for A Question of Honor: http://www.amazon.com/Question-Honor-Kosciuszko-Squadron-Forgotten/dp/037572625X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374671685&sr=1-2

Amazon's link for the book I am reading - Duel of Eagles: http://www.amazon.com/Duel-Eagles-Struggle-Battle-Britain/dp/0785815686/ref=sr_1_106?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374671837&sr=1-106&keywords=battle+of+britain

Jager
07-24-2013, 08:49
I heard a rumor that not only for these reasons.
It was recently on Discovery Channel and I had a chance to record it.

As to Thomas question about the book. I am pretty sure it is based on a real book I read while flying to Origins:
L.Olson & S.Cloud: "A Question of Honor".
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/124552/a-question-of-honor-by-lynne-olson-and-stanley-cloud

Can I say more? Read it if you grab it, chaps. :salute:

Ordered from the library (astonishing, they have a non-fiction book that I want ).
Thanks for the heads up.
Karl

csadn
07-24-2013, 14:49
Now the situation of Poland and it's Western allies was that Poland was expecting Germany to be deterred by the threat from France (backed by England); that proved to be an empty threat, at least in terms of helping Poland (or even France, as it turned out). As Russia was approaching Poland and Germany, any effort of the West to keep Eastern Europe out of Russian hands (in effect) would only have been effective under a threat of war, which the West was not prepared to do, and may not have been able to pull off, except over several years. And the home politics would never have allowed for it. So promises from the West were empty.

Yup -- '39 should have been a Big Flippin' Clue to Poland that Britain and France weren't going to lift a finger to help out. (Hell, the Czechs and Slovaks could have given Poland a tip or two re Western Help In The Face Of Nazi Aggression.) In '44, the West would have to *go through* Germany in order to aid Poland; yeah, like *that* was going to happen.

Big dose of realpolitik here for Poland: They were going to end as a province of *someone's* empire -- the question was "will our oppressors be speaking German, or Russian?". And unlike, say, Yugoslavia, Poland isn't exactly the sort of territory where one can say "Oh, you're going to occupy us? Good luck with that." On that basis, Poland is looking at "how much autonomy can we get from our masters"; outright freedom was Not An Option (the optimum would have been what Tito accomplished -- pay lip-service to Moscow, and make sure the KGB never takes an interest in the place).

(Personally: I think Patton had the right idea -- keep going until his and MacArthur's bunch shake hands somewhere in Siberia..... >:) )

Oh, and one other matter: Part of mother's side of the family is Polish; tho' they got out *much* earlier than this period. So it's a topic of some interest to me.... >;)

Jager
07-24-2013, 16:32
Big dose of realpolitik here for Poland: They were going to end as a province of *someone's* empire -- the question was "will our oppressors be speaking German, or Russian?". And unlike, say, Yugoslavia, Poland isn't exactly the sort of territory where one can say "Oh, you're going to occupy us? Good luck with that." On that basis, Poland is looking at "how much autonomy can we get from our masters"; outright freedom was Not An Option (the optimum would have been what Tito accomplished -- pay lip-service to Moscow, and make sure the KGB never takes an interest in the place).

I'm not sure that German or Russian occupation of Poland was pre-determined in 1919 (though that would be the odds); however, to avoid it, Poland would have had to do some serious empire-building itself. If they could have followed the goals of Józef Piłsudski's thoughts of Intermarium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarum) and Prometheanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheism) , they might have had the strength to deter of resist Germany and the weakened USSR (or successor state(s)). Otherwise, an alliance with Germany (and hope not to get stabbed) al la Turtledove's "The War that Came Early" series might have been the best chance. (yes, Chris we know you opinion of Turtledove's writings).
Given Russian attitudes, a Yugoslav-style independence wouldn't be an option, not without mountains to stop the T-34s.
Karl

csadn
07-25-2013, 15:19
I'm not sure that German or Russian occupation of Poland was pre-determined in 1919

Not 1919 -- 1945.

1919, Poland had good fortune on its side -- Germany and Russia had both come unglued at the same time; the former was unable to put armies across the border anymore, the latter could but (as was demonstrated in the Russo-Soviet War of the '20s) was far too inept and weak to hold what it took.

1945, Poland did *not* have good fortune on its side -- they'd been occupied by Germany long enough for the Soviets to justify calling them "enemies", and dealing with them accordingly; and this time, the Soviets were far less weak and inept as they'd been twenty-five years earlier.


Given Russian attitudes, a Yugoslav-style independence wouldn't be an option, not without mountains to stop the T-34s.

Or what the Poles inadvertently ended up with in the 1980s -- an air force pretty-much designed to slaughter tank columns.... (One wonders if this in any way colored Gorby's thinking on the topic -- it was all well and good for Brezhnev to say "we can use force", but the practical results of doing so....)

Jager
07-25-2013, 15:41
I'm not sure that German or Russian occupation of Poland was pre-determined in 1919 (though that would be the odds); however, to avoid it, Poland would have had to do some serious empire-building itself.

Not 1919 -- 1945.

1919, Poland had good fortune on its side -- Germany and Russia had both come unglued at the same time; the former was unable to put armies across the border anymore, the latter could but (as was demonstrated in the Russo-Soviet War of the '20s) was far too inept and weak to hold what it took.

1945, Poland did *not* have good fortune on its side -- they'd been occupied by Germany long enough for the Soviets to justify calling them "enemies", and dealing with them accordingly; and this time, the Soviets were far less weak and inept as they'd been twenty-five years earlier.


Not the point I was making: given the way the map was redrawn in 1919, unless Russia was seriously weakened, and Germany not interested in regaining the lost territories (leaving aside the Nazis' desire to "Drang nach Osten"), war between Poland and one or both was inevitable. And a Polish victory would have been unlikely, though not impossible, depending on other factors.
Karl

Flying Officer Kyte
07-26-2013, 02:54
Looks like I'm reading the same book at the moment, but in the UK it's been released as 'For Your Freedom and Ours' - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Freedom-Ours-Kosciuszko-Forgotten/dp/0099428121 Suitably scathing of the hollow promises of Western governments, and particularly Churchill, regarding the treatment of Poland both during and after the war.

Just ordered it from Amazon.
Thanks for the link Balders.
Rob.

Baldrick62
07-27-2013, 01:24
In the video Bloody Foreigners the untold Battle of Britain there is talk of a diary. Does anyone know if it was copied and make into a book as well as being translated to English?

CT,
To go back to your original question, it seems that Miroslaw Feric's wartime 'diary' eventually expanded to seven volumes, so was effectively an unofficial history of the Kosciuszko Sqn, told in their own words. There is mention of a book written in 1943 by Arkady Fiedler 'Squadron 303' which may draw more heavily on the first-hand material from the diaires than 'A Question of Honor/For Your Freedom and Ours' which only contains small excerpts.
BofB

Jager
07-27-2013, 02:16
CT,
To go back to your original question, it seems that Miroslaw Feric's wartime 'diary' eventually expanded to seven volumes, so was effectively an unofficial history of the Kosciuszko Sqn, told in their own words. There is mention of a book written in 1943 by Arkady Fiedler 'Squadron 303' which may draw more heavily on the first-hand material from the diaires than 'A Question of Honor/For Your Freedom and Ours' whcih only contains small excerpts.
BobB

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1607720043/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d2_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1ACW53B53GWGEN6NC14F&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

100674

Karl

CappyTom
07-27-2013, 05:17
CT,
To go back to your original question, it seems that Miroslaw Feric's wartime 'diary' eventually expanded to seven volumes, so was effectively an unofficial history of the Kosciuszko Sqn, told in their own words. There is mention of a book written in 1943 by Arkady Fiedler 'Squadron 303' which may draw more heavily on the first-hand material from the diaires than 'A Question of Honor/For Your Freedom and Ours' whcih only contains small excerpts.
BobB

Thanks Baldrick62!
:thumbsup:
Thomas

bsmith13
07-27-2013, 07:21
Totally enjoyed the video. Thanks for the link!