SND- International Skype Game - Slay the Leviathan - 8/9 June 2013

[OldGuy59]

Part One - The Set-up:
This was an open invitation game, and I sent notices to lots of people who expressed interest in a Skype game (IE: were on the WWI Skype Players Forum thread), and specific individuals that knew I was working on a scenario for the Forssmann-Mannesmann Triplane Bomber. Unfortunately, a lot of the keen individuals that said they'd like to play had other Real Life commitments they couldn't defer. So, this game ended up being between Alastair [Doug] in Toowoomba, Australia, myself [OldGuy59], in Comox, BC, Canada, Eric [7eat51] in Bloomington, Illinois, USA, and Andy [freebird-52] in Haughton, Louisiana, USA. Both Eric and Andy had friends over, and they joined in, too. So, there were six of us in total playing in this game.

Alastair in Toowoomba:
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Toowoomba, Australia to Comox, Canada: 11,816 kms = 7,342 miles

And the guys in North America:
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Comox, Canada to Bloomington, Illinois: 2,956 kms = 1,837 miles
Bloomington, Illinois to Haughton, Louisiana: 952 kms = 591 miles

The time for this game attempted to get everyone in daylight, barely. Alastair was up early Sunday morning at 6:00 AM, I was just after lunch, and all the USA players were 3:00 PM.

From set-up to finish, this turned out to be a five hour game. Skype Premium only allows Video sessions of 4 hours, and at 4:03 into the game, our connection reverted to audio only. I disconnected, and immediately called all the participants back, and we got our video back. Note, Skype Premium does place a maximum limit per call of 4 hours, AND a maximum video usage of 10 hours in a week. So, just reconnecting for this game worked, but I will have to watch trying this if I were to play another game within the same week.

Set-Up:
In the invitation sent out for this game, a few discussions were had about connections, who was playing, how many planes, etc... This was discussed on this thread: SND International Skype Game Invitation - Slay the Leviathan - 8/9 June 2013 (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?15179-SND-International-Skype-Game-Invitation-Slay-the-Leviathan-8-9-June-2013)

Summary as follows:
It will be almost the same as the practice run (Slay the Leviathan - Solo Trial (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?15144-Slay-the-Leviathan-Solo-Trial)), but 3 escort Albatrii will be included (they will not be regenerated). Camels, SPADs, and Nieuports (16s with rockets, and 17s) are being considered. Also, I have considered the front cannons on the bomber as being Becker 20mm auto-cannons, able to fire up to three times in a row, before needing to reload. And with two cannons in the nose, and a two range-ruler range, that means four C Damage cards per shot on single planes that get close enough to shoot the bomber head on.
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On my table, the bomber will be "stationary" in the middle for most of the game (I messed up the map, and started it too close to the end of the roll). No matter. For those wishing to set up a situation table at their end, the playing area will be four feet (123 cms. This includes the spacer for the bomber stand) by three feet, 3 inches (100 cms). We will be starting with the bomber and three Albatrii D.Vas at the Trench Line, and three Camels closing from the North West corner (Top Right in this picture, but it will be Bottom Left during the game) of the map. On turn Three, up to three SPADs will enter from the South West corner of the map. On any subsequent turn, should there be a shot-down Player available, we will alternate Camels and SPADs as they are available. If we get to the point we are using all my Camels and SPADs, we can consider the rocket-equipped Nieuport 16s (two), or MG equipped Nieuport 17s (two). If the bomber is still getting to Paris, we will definitely be using the Rockets, in a desperation attempt to save the city and it's historical and cultural landmarks.

I am not using Altitude Rules! Yet.

For home situation tables, any game mats will do, or even just a bare table. You should have a card or bomber stand-in for the Forssman/Mannesmann tri-plane, and any scout aircraft to stand in for the others. I tried to link this amazing plane card (Thank you, Guntruck!) in the invitational thread,so players had an idea of what they were facing. It didn't work, but I am providing it here for future reference:
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Hopefully the participants will have suitable maneuver decks for the planes we are using, but they really only need decks for the plane they are flying to select their three moves per turn. I will move each aircraft using the cards chosen by each participant. Ranges to targets will be measured from my table. There will be some drift from card and mini handling, but this just can't be helped. We can readjust as we go, if things get really out of hand, but that hasn't happened yet. I have had problems with my image mirroring on my computer screen, but the image I send out is correct for everyone else. I try to adjust.

Damage!
We drew our own damage, everyone needed A and C Damage decks. I asked players to track their damage, and to post a picture of the carnage for the AAR. Oh, and I ended up needing a D Damage deck, because we brought in the Nieuport 16s with the rockets. More on that later.

Jams on the Bomber:
Using Zeppelin discussions, we adapted those ideas for the bomber gunners. We ignored Green Jams, and clearing Jams on A Guns in one maneuver phase, as the gunners are on a stable platform and are not trying to fly or do other things (C Cannons will still take the three phases, for jams or reloads).

OK, That's the start. More to follow tomorrow, as it is getting way late here. Sorry, but we all know what happened. The details are coming on the next episode.

Mike :)

[OldGuy59]

So,on the Invite thread, I had to apologize, as I missed the introductions completely, and then, missed the locations. So, somewhere in the mix of voices, I was calling out names to the players, but in focusing on the miniatures and movements, I missed where the guests were located (How? I’m old and easily confused?). Anyway, just to ensure we get this straight, Alastair [Doug] was in Toowoomba, Australia, myself [OldGuy59], in Comox, BC, Canada, Eric [7eat51] with Dave [degodave] in Bloomington, Illinois, USA, and Andy [freebird-52] with Gordon in Haughton, Louisiana, USA.

I covered a few basic things for the layout of the scenario, and found out who would be flying what. Dave was the late joiner, so Gordon started out with all the escorting Albatrii. Alastair took the Camel Flight leader, Eric and Andy took a camel each.
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I laid out a side table to keep track of all the planes and the bomber, it looked like this:
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I also pointed out the firing arcs of the bomber, although in a “first appearance” scenario, the Entente players shouldn’t really know what they are. I think the Entente flyers kept forgetting about these arcs, or they just decided to brave out the cannon fire. Not a good choice, in retrospect. I would consider changing the cannons to something less lethal, but the bomber still didn’t last too long.


The first turn was the usual “getting to grips” run in to shooting range. The Bomber was started at the trench line, with an Albatros in front and on both wingtips. (you can barely make out the tail of the right albatross on the trailing edge of the right wing of the bomber):
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By the Second Maneuver of Turn 1, Gordon had his lead Albatros (Bäumer) and the right (Schleich) hading toward the oncoming Camels, and the Jentsch D.Va advancing toward the left flank. Alastair was full speed straight for the bomber with the Barker Camel, Eric widening the spacing off the Barker Camel for maneuvering room, but still in-formation on the right of Alastair. Andy went wide left, heading to the North map edge.
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Maneuver Three of Turn One, and Bäumer and Barker were overlapped. That didn’t stop Schleich from putting rounds into Barker. That ended Turn One. First blood to the Germans.
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First Maneuver of Turn Two, and Alastair got a taste of the C Cannons on the bomber, when they opened up on his Camel. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros took a few pieces out of Andy’s Coombes Camel. Bäumer’s guns jammed, saving Coombes from more deadly fire in the next few maneuvers. Dave [degodave] joined in the fight from Eric’s place, and took over Jentsch’s Albatros on the left (South) side of the bomber.
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Second Maneuver, and the only shooting was another two C cannons from the bomber on Alastair’s Camel. He survived this attack, too! Gordon had planned his maneuvers well in Bäumer’s Albatros, but the jammed guns kept Andy’s Camel undamaged by what would have been double A Damage cards. Gordon’s Schleich Albatros continued straight West. Dave abandon’s his guarding of the left flank and turns in toward the battle in front of the bomber.
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Third Maneuver of Turn 2, and there was no firing. No arcs on opponents, out of range, or jammed guns. Gordon’s Schleich Albatros Immelmanns to get back to the bomber for defence. Dave and Alastair miss each other by being out of arc.
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Turn Three, and two more Entente planes appear from the Southwest. Two SPAD XIIIs come in, flown by Andy and Eric.
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I missed the picture of the First Maneuver on Turn Three, but Andy took some good ones, so I used them here. On the North side of the bomber, Andy’s Camel was out in front of Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros. The gun jam was still in effect, so Andy didn’t get perforated from the rear. He did take a deluge of bullets from the front, and four A Damage cards later, was still in the air. Andy took a shot at the bomber.
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Note: This shot is from the North.

I took out my Flight of the Giants “4+ Crew” chits, and drew a double crew hit! Darn! So, out with my d4, and two rolls later, I was down two gunners. First hit on the bomber, and it was a nasty one. All others were bringing their planes around.93147

Maneuver Two of Turn Three, and Andy took some more good pictures, unfortunately this time of his own plane going down in flames. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros was overlapped, and unable to shot, but the bomber was not. At this range, despite taking out two gunners last maneuver, he still got four A Damage cards this time. His plane couldn’t take the beating. With the shot from Gordon’s plane in Turn Two, and the eight damage cards from the bomber, that put paid to his plane. His parting shot was telling, nonetheless.
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At close range, I drew two A Damage cards, and got the dreaded Boom card! This was discussed in advance, and I did run into this during the Solo trial. Only in some remotely unlikely instance would a few .303 bullets take out something as big as this bomber. My take on this was to draw a C Damage card and apply that to the bomber. My luck this time was a Zero! (In the solo trial it was a 10! I may have to come up with a minimum number of damage for this, now that I think this over. Or draw from my triple D Damage deck, instead? There are still zeros in there, too, but six Boom Cards at about 25% chance of being drawn.).
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No other shooting, as planes maneuvered about. The SPADs were still coming in at speed.

Last maneuver of Turn Three, and there were no Entente planes anywhere near the bomber. The fighter escort was doing a wonderful job. Gordon’s Schleich Albatros and Eric’s MacGregor Camel traded short-ranged shots. The incoming SPADs danced around Alastair’s Barker Camel, and Eric narrowly avoided a collision with Alastair. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros turns toward the fighting in front of the bomber.
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Into Turn Four, and gunfire erupts over the trenches. The two SPADs end up dodging each other, and Andy’s SPAD trims Dave’s Albatros’ tail, and starts a fire!
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Alastair gets a long-ranged shot at the bomber, and does cosmetic damage to the behemoth.
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The front-left A Gunner returns fire. There are no range sticks out toward Eric’s Camel in front of the bomber, so did I fire cannons? The next phase has Eric’s SPAD smoking and burning. Must have been the cannons. The Left-front A gunner shot back at Alastair, too. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros turns toward the left wingtip of the bomber, heading for the swarm of Entente planes. Gordon’s Schleich Albatros is heading West. Andy brings another Camel onto the board, from the Northwest corner.

Maneuver Two of the turn, more gunfire! Three Entente planes unload at the bomber, and the damage and return fire threw off their aim.
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Alastair’s shots all missed (no +1’s), and Eric’s SPAD did very little. Eric’s Camel, however was a crippling hit to the gunnery crews in the nose!
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Again, out with the 4+ Crew chits, and, again, I drew two crew hit. Out came the d12, as there was six crew in the nose, I rolled to see who got hit. 5 for the Left Cannon crew, and 11 for the Right A Gunner (d12 /2 for the six positions).
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From the range sticks, Cannon fire probably went into both of Eric’s planes (Camel and SPAD). Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros, under the bomber fires into the left wingtip of Andy’s SPAD, as does the Bomber A Gunner. Gordon’s Schleich Albatros Immelmanns to head back toward all the smoke, fire and thunder. Dave’s Albatros is rounding to the Southwest.

Maneuver Three of Turn Four, and Alastair’s Camel goes down from the double A Damage cards from the left A gunner, and he manages to put some +1 damage into the beast. The gun jam is inconsequential, with a disintegrating plane. Eric’s Camel also fires into the bomber, and he also adds +1 hits to the bomber. Lucky for him, the A Gunner is not shooting back, and the C Cannon is out of arc.
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Note: At the bottom left of the damage picture above, you can see the “4+ Crew” chits, and the double crew hit I drew on the previous maneuver phase.

Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros, now out from under the bomber’s left wing, fires into the tail of Andy’s SPAD, for +1 damage. Luckily, not at short range, due to the speed of the SPAD. At this point, the guns on Bäumer’s Albatros jam!

Start of Turn Five, and Eric’s SPAD succumbs to the fire, and the thrashing he took in front of the bomber. Alastair brings in another Camel from the Northwest, and Andy has brought in a Nieuport 16 with rockets from the Southwest (represented by a Nieuport 17, as I was too lazy to dig the right plane(s) out of the Balloon Buster boxes in my office). Dave’s Albatros survives another turn of fire damage.
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Note: At this point, Andy and Eric swap incoming planes. Andy wants the Nieuport 16, and trades Eric for the already introduced Camel that is half-way into the fight from the Northwest.
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A shot of Eric's Camel sneaking under the right wing.

Maneuver One of the turn, and Eric’s new Camel, and Gordon’s Schleich Albatros trade close-in shots (Upper Left corner). Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros gets riddled with close range fire from Andy’s SPAD, without being able to respond. Eric’s other Camel has flown under the right wing of the bomber, and down the right side of the plane. There are still two missing A Gunners on this side, so he “only” takes Two A Damage cards! Dave is trying to bring his Albatros back into the fight from a way out to the West.
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Andy shooting up Gordon's jammed Albatros, and Eric's Camel getting the treatment from the bomber's right A guns:
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Second Maneuver, with Andy’s SPAD and Nieuport 16 continued toward the bomber, and Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros was heading for the South map edge.
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Eric first camel does the 90 degree turn to the right and fires short-range into the fuselage of the bomber. It was a hard hit, but the four A Damage cards in return was more than Eric’s Camel could withstand.
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The Camels and Albatrii to the West: Alastair’s new Camel and Gordon’s Schleich Albatros traded long-distance shots with each other; Eric’s new Camel was out of arc, as he was getting ready to do the suicidal head-long run at the nose of the bomber, but Dave’s Albatros’ guns weren’t.
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Last maneuver for Turn Five, and the only shots within range and arc are the tailing shots by Dave’s Albatros and a Cannon shot from the bomber on Eric’s new Camel, and an A Gunner shot from the bomber on Andy’s SPAD. Alastair’s Camel and Gordon’s Schleich Albatros were overlapping, so they weren’t shooting, and Andy’s Nieuport was out of range, still, but his SPAD was out of arc. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros was heading even closer to the South edge of the map.
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The damage to Eric’s Camel was catastrophic, and another Entente plane spirals into the ground, but it wasn’t in vain. He made the monster bleed.
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Note: Hmmm… I wasn’t counting shots carefully enough. This should have been the last turn of the reload on this cannon. Bad game moderator!

Start of Turn Six, and Eric decides to bring on only a single plane, even though both of his were shot down last turn. He brings in another rocket-armed Nieuport 16, though! Andy’s Nieuport is half way to the bomber, and his SPAD is out in front of the bomber, well within range of the cannon. Dave’s Albatros survives another turn of fire damage. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros is getting close to the South map edge, and behind the bomber, while his Schleich Albatros is trying to dodge Alastair’s new Camel off to the Northwest.
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Two small points to note:
First - Six turns in, and the bomber’s fuselage is still over the trench line. The Empennage is still in friendly territory!
Second - Eric is introducing the thirteenth plane to the game. Just thought I’d mention this, Eric.

First maneuver of Turn Six, and Andy turns his SPAD into the nose of the bomber at point-blank range! The SPAD and the bomber exchange duel A Damage cards, but Dave’s Albatros has managed to close in on the SPAD’s left wing. Two more A Damage cards go to the SPAD, and it explodes! It only managed a nibble on the bomber, but at this point it is starting to falter from the accumulated damage.
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Alastair’s Camel is not yet in range, and Gordon’s Schleich Albatros is behind Alastair, but out of arc. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros is starting a slow left turn back to the fight from South of the bomber. Eric turns his Nieuport to the East, and starts heading along the South map edge, toward the trenches.

Alastair is finally in range, and takes a shot, on the Second Maneuver.
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Jam markers appear on the Bomber Plane Card, so an A Gunner had to have moved from one of the left-side A guns to the front (they actually didn’t shoot all game). Otherwise, this shot would be illegal. I should have moved the Injured Crew Marker, but in all the excitement, I forgot. Damage was limited, and the rudder jam was ignored.
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Note: The first card above is Andy's B Damage Card, and the second is Alastair's A Damage and Rudder Jam card.

Andy had a choice of targets, both being at long range, and decided to fire at the bomber, rather than at Dave’s Albatros. Considering the size of the target, much bigger than a barn door, it was ineffective. The return shots light Andy’s Nieuport on fire.
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Oh, and Gordon’s Schleich Albatros was right on Alastair’s tail. Two A Damage cards were handed out to Alastair. Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros is still circling back to the fight from behind and South of the bomber. Eric is still heading East along the South edge.
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Note: At this point, with a rocket-armed Nieuport 16 closing in on the bomber, we reviewed the rules for rockets. In addition to the maneuver rules, and adjustments, there is something about the rockets missing if the firing plane takes any special damage when firing. Considering that the rules were written for balloon busting, and the only hits that might affect an attacking plane is another scout or AA fire, I consider that the chances would not likely occur. Or the pilot would choose not to fire, and come around for another shot. Against this behemoth, with all the guns and the cannons, special damage is “likely” to occur. So, I stated that any special damage would NOT affect the rocket attack. We can argue this, but with the target this size, I’m thinking the rockets would hit. Andy had lined up on the fuselage and wing junction, anyway, so a pretty good place to unleash the rockets.

Commencing Maneuver Three of Turn six, Andy states the rockets are being fired from his Nieuport. We look over the board, and there is a clean shot. He has the range, and the target is pretty much the center of his arc. Although the rockets don’t hit until the next maneuver phase, I draw and hold two D Damage cards from my triple D Damage deck. There are no intervening targets, as Dave has taken his Albatros South after Eric’s Nieuport. Alastair is saved from being perforated, as he overlaps the bomber, and Gordon’s Bäumer Albatros is continuing back to the fight, now behind the bomber’s left wing a fair distance. Eric has just about reached a point perpendicular to the bomber’s left wingtip, and I suspect he is going to try to turn in and keep in line with the wing, where there is a blind spot from all the guns.
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Turn Seven and Dave’s Albatros survives the fire! It finally goes out, and he is still in the air. Andy’s Nieuport survives it’s fire, too.
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On the next maneuver phase, the bomber takes the rocket hit! I drew a Nine with flames, and a Boom Card. I draw a C Damage card, and it is a Zero! However, I am now at a total of 39 points of damage, with a +1 to a 2, and two 1s. The Forssmann – Manesmann Triplane falls from the sky, raining bombs, debris, and men all over the country side.
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As the plane disintegrated, and didn’t explode, I rolled to see if any of the overlapping planes would be hit by debris (yeah, they were all “under” the model, but that is a function of the stand, not my preference). All the planes were “above” the falling wreckage, and survived. But, Dave had managed to get his very burnt Albatros within gun range of Eric’s Nieuport, and let loose! The rockets on Eric’s plane exploded, taking his plane down in a single, long-ranged shot (That’s gratitude for you. You invite a buddy over to play a game, feed him supper, and he shoots you out of the sky. Dave may have worn out his welcome, and we may not see him in another Skype game from Eric’s house.).
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Picture from Andy's Album [freebird-52], of Eric's Nieuport creating a burning crater in the ground.

The Damage:
Central Powers:
The Forssman-Manesmann Triplane took the beating we expected, but none of the escorts fell (damage to them will have to come from the pilots):
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Entente:
Four Camels, two SPADs and a Nieuport 16 all fell in this fight.

If you are interested, I can post a “Shots on Target Analysis”. However, with the Leviathan and its many guns, it wouldn’t be a fair comparison. Also, there were several times when shots on a plane were chosen for scenario victory conditions, so maximum guns on a specific plane.

Suggestions and critiques welcome. I will add an "Episode Three" for some ideas that came up in the after-game discussion. Like how to run a wave of bombers using my moving map. Either for a WGF or WGS scenario, but that is next post.

Awesome game, guys! I can’t wait for the next one.

Mike :)

[freebird-52]

Great AAR! Love the pictures too. Very interesting is that my pictures mirror yours except for a few different crates. I had to use my Albatros D.III since I only have two D.Vs.

and yes, it would have been nice to have a copy of the Beast's playing card for reference on our board in Louisiana. Differently, would have helped in knowing how to attack that bomber!

All in all, great scenario & great times!

[7eat51]

Great AAR Mike, and wonderful event. :thumbsup: :clap: :hatsoff:

So I flew in the "lucky" 13th plane. Hmmm. Ironically, Dave has been missing since Saturday evening.

A few reflections on playing the game:

1. I was amazed at how smoothly the game went in terms of technology. There was very little, if any, problems with Skype. So for those of us who are somewhat technologically challenged, we need not worry about participating.

2. There were several of us who ended up not using our own game setup. Given how Mike setup the game, all a player really needs is a copy of the maneuver and damage decks for any plane (s)he desires to fly. I believe most of this can be found on file on the 'Drome. Basically, this means anyone can play, and that no one should feel like they can't because of a lack of gaming components.

3. The next time we play, I will try playing along like Andy and Gordon did, using my own setup as well. I can see how this would help in terms of capturing the overall progression of the battle.

4. For those of us who are still relatively new to the game, I suggest flying a plane around the dining room table until we have a feel for how the plane maneuvers. I made several turns thinking I would be flying along one trajectory only to find myself flying along an unintended angle. This was especially damaging when the first maneuver in a turn was a turn, only to be followed by two more set maneuvers. By the time I was able to compensate, much activity had passed.

5. Avoid "C" guns. They're deadly.

6. This Skype game, and the same holds true for campaigns like OTT, is a great way to develop deeper connections with 'Drome members. It is one thing to share posts with each other; it is another thing to play a game together. The nice thing about the Skype game is that we can hear and see each other in real time - much more personal. I think such games will only enhance our interaction on the 'Drome.

Some reflections on the mission - some in light of our conversation at the end of the game:

1. I suggest the attackers have a few moments at the beginning of the game to discuss some basic strategy. If they were flying to intercept, they probably would have had some discussion prior to takeoff. In light of this, I would suggest that the bomber and interceptors not be placed on the table until discussions are over. This would mimic the attackers lack of knowledge concerning the position of planes, etc.

2. I like having the interceptors. I think without them, it could become a game of pulling cards. What I mean is with one target, the attackers would get within range, both sides pull damage cards, and it simply becomes a race to pulling higher valued cards. With the interceptors, the attackers have more to think about, decisions to make. This makes it more enjoyable for the attackers. I would suggest that the starting number of attackers is one more than interceptors. This would force the interceptors to make choices as well. Otherwise, the first turn or two could primarily focus on dogfighting.

3. The number of interceptors and attackers should be set by time constraints. If a group has the luxury of time and interest in playing a longer game, Saturday's setup was fine. For a tournament with a set time, adjustments would have to be made accordingly. I agree with Alastair in setting a limit to the number of attacking planes. If they fail, the intended bombing target will take a beating.

4. It might be interesting for replacements to come in in waves as opposed to individual planes. Replacements could be set to come in on given turns, or even based on a random generator which would create a bit more fog of war. Again, this would enable a little initial coordination as a group of planes approached the battle site, and the bomber and interceptors would recognize a new group; individual entries could be overlooked and not create any sense of urgency for the bomber/interceptor group.

5. Keep a running list of rule evolution, so before each subsequent game, all players can read a list of rules and be on the same page, for example how rockets will work, how boom cards will be handled. Given old and new sets of rules, this will help folks not be unduly surprised by any given outcome.

6. I did not sense a loss from not using altitude rules. I would be interested in playing with them to see what, if any, difference they would make, but I would not fear not using them. The game was very fun as is.

Overall Mike, it was a great experience. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[OldGuy59]

Thanks, Andy.

I'm glad you had fun. That scenario took much longer to play than I expected. Consider that a complete seven turns is only 42 seconds in game time! Lots of destruction for game time, but five hours to play? Way too long for a convention time slot. More practice!

I missed the "stable platform" jam clearing on the bomber. I will have to put a sticky note on the Management Card to remind me. And another one for cannon reloads. :dazed:

Bomber/Zeppelin Scenarios:
Now that I've done this scenario, I think it would work really well for a Zeppelin run, or other bombers. After the game, we discussed using the scrolling map. The thought was that depending on the number of planes, you just arrange the rolls and dividers. I can see two flights of three bombers each (two cheverons), using four one-foot rolls. I can so see this in a WW II scenario!

How do I post a thread to the "How To" Forum? I can't find the "add thread" button. I could post the scrolling map idea there, for others to use. :confused:

So, Clipper! Either I build my own, or I grovel for one of your awesome Zeppelins. Let me find a place to put one first.

Once again, thanks to the participants' patience, this was great. And we need to do it again. :salute::thankyou:

Mike :-)

[clipper1801]

Astounding! This is so cool, its almost like the real thing! Excellent achievement guys! The elves are very interested in elf skype with family way up north . . .

[degodave]

Gents, great game! Next time I might actually consider an attempt to follow my mission and protect the bomber. In my defense, my mission goals were not clearly defined for me since I came in late. Additionally, I got my pilot's license out of a crackerjack box that I found laying around in Eric's basement, so there's that. :)

[freebird-52]

Mike: I see the one bomber card, but where is the other management card hiding? Like to add them to my arsenal.

Clipper: anymore of those Beast in your 'drome looking for a home? and my have to take up a Zeppelin too

[clipper1801]

Looks like a job for the "Rocketeers!"

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h379/Revchaos/Rocketeer/2012-03-23_13-45-48_28.jpg (http://s1106.photobucket.com/user/Revchaos/media/Rocketeer/2012-03-23_13-45-48_28.jpg.html)

I had nearly forgotten about these guys, way back in 2012 as I recall

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h379/Revchaos/Rocketeer/2012-03-23_13-46-18_309.jpg (http://s1106.photobucket.com/user/Revchaos/media/Rocketeer/2012-03-23_13-46-18_309.jpg.html)

Maybe next time . . .

[OldGuy59]

Mike: I see the one bomber card, but where is the other management card hiding? Like to add them to my arsenal.


Andy,
The cards were done up by Steve [Guntruck], and can be found here:
Guntruck's Amazing Plane and Management Cards. (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?11393-Gratitude-in-a-Thread-with-Three-Posts&p=164939&viewfull=1#post164939)

Note that Steve did up two Plane Cards, with a choice of A or B machine guns. There isn't much information on the C cannons. After my solo attempt, I started asking questions:

1. Is the C gun in front used the same way as AA guns (IE: Three phase reload), or is it an auto-cannon with rapid fire (IE: every maneuver card)?

2. There were no crew hits in my trial, but as the fuselage is all one piece, the gunners should be able to move from any gun to any other gun. Thoughts? Perhaps the C gun crews could be specialists, and not interchangable with the A guns.

3. The Management Card shows only 5 engines, but there are actually 10. Does it take 10 hits to start stalling, or just 5, and 10 to take it out of the air?...

I didn't get a quick answer, so I started researching German Airborne cannons, and came up with the following:

All I could find on German airborne auto-cannons is the "Flaming Onion" 37 mm, the Becker 20 mm, or the Sockelflak 37 mm. All appear to be "burst" firing weapons.

The "Flaming Onion" fired 5 tracer rounds in a burst that I suspect would do more fire damage to scout planes (my suggestion would be to draw a C Damage card, and if there is any special damage on it, draw an A Damage card. Any special damage on the A Damage card would initiate a fire on the target. If the special damage on the C Damage card is also a fire, then the target takes two (2) Fire Damage for the next three turns, not just one. Just a suggestion.). This weapon would be a three-phase reload, if my research is accurate.

The Becker was equipped with 10 or 15 round magazines, and should have been able to burst-fire up to 10 rounds in 6 seconds (one maneuver phase). A trained crew could restrict the burst to 5 rounds, and therefore fire up to three phases in a row with a 15 round magazine, with a three phase reload of another magazine. This would still result in a C Damage card being drawn for each shot, but not as dangerous for starting fires as the 37 mm cannon above.

37mm Sockelflak AA Canon, with 10 round magazine, firing in a burst. This would be a three phase reload weapon, as well. However, if more than one or two rounds hit a scout, it would be worth more than a single C Damage card, I would think.

Choices to be made, and being that this thing was never completed, pretty much our choice for what to put in the nose. I'm glad none of my planes drew more than zeros, but I may have shorted the draw, if the range was within one range-stick distance (which happened twice, now that I look. Double Darn! The bomber has Two cannons on the front! In the same firing arc. It should have been FOUR C Damage cards! OMG!).

For devastation, I'd go with the Becker 20 mm, as that would allow following fire (Gack!) on the C Damage draws. Much nastier outcomes on frontal assaults. And at two range sticks for the cannons, getting close enough with a scout to shoot back would be suicidal.

Heck, you could mount a few of these on the fuselage, if you really wanted carnage.

You discovered which way I went for our scenario, but no-one knows what would have been there, if anything. As a "What If" scenario, with no historical record to detract from our fantasies, we can do what we like.

Mike :)

[7eat51]

Clipper: anymore of those Beast in your 'drome looking for a home?

See what you have created David? ;)

[freebird-52]

Mike,

Thanks for the update on the Beast.

After seeing the AAR, a fellow co-worker/modeller has laid down the gauntlet by challenging me to build a Beast...is it possible Clipper to get some info and share some trade secrets?

[diceslinger]

Wow! This is pretty epic! It's great to see such a BIG scenario being played!

[7eat51]

After seeing the AAR, a fellow co-worker/modeller has laid down the gauntlet by challenging me to build a Beast...is it possible Clipper to get some info and share some trade secrets?

You must show some pics.

[clipper1801]

I suppose I could add to the arms race, how many and by when? The elves are looking for something to do beside painting . . . it would be epic to see a trio of these bad guys crossing the Channel thing . . .

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h379/Revchaos/Forssman%20Tri/2012-08-05_22-53-14_160.jpg (http://s1106.photobucket.com/user/Revchaos/media/Forssman%20Tri/2012-08-05_22-53-14_160.jpg.html)

[Nightbomber]

I am left speechless after that magnificent AAR, Mike. I wish I was there in the air, but sometimes life comes across.
Now get back to packing...

[BobRoberts]

Mike, an AAR worthy of the halls of Valhalla :-) I look forward to your running of this event at BottosCon in November. As for it taking 5 hours, this is not a concern at BottosCon. The fact that you had waves of reinforcements entering play lends itself to players dropping out and new players coming in. Conversely, if time is a concern, substitute several smaller bombers with escorts for the leviathan, as the overall intent is to get players mixing it up while the bombers try to get to their target. The bombers can be run by the game referee, while the escorts and interceptors are run by various players.:D :pint: :drinks:

[7eat51]

Rob, you will want to face that Monster. The never knowing when it will come down, or if flying by a certain part of the plane would result in having your plane badly damaged or destroyed, were a lot of fun. The size, too, will add to the table's attractiveness.

I think your idea of folks coming in-and-out as they desire is great. Additionally, it could add some to a con-game if folks almost tag-team to see what they can do on their turn.

[Doug]

I thoroughly enjoined the game. My first impression after the game, was that the triplane was over armed, but futher research reveal that the armament was prity accurate. I also liked the idea of fighter escort as otherwise it would be just be a game of shoot up of the levantian. Socialy it was great to meet and game with you all. :salute:

[freebird-52]

I suppose I could add to the arms race, how many and by when? The elves are looking for something to do beside painting . . . it would be epic to see a trio of these bad guys crossing the Channel thing . . .



PM sent...

[csadn]

Suggestions and critiques welcome.

I notice that at no point in the festivities did any of the Entente pilots ever so much as think of GETTING BEHIND THE TRIPLANE WHERE MOST OF ITS GUNS CAN'T AIM; instead repeatedly throwing themselves in front of the biggest guns on the unit, and getting themselves tied up with the escorts when they should have been focusing on the main target.

I am beginning to understand why most AARs end with CP Victories.... [rolls eyes so hard he sees the insides of his eyesockets]

[OldGuy59]

Chris,
Be fair.

The Entente pilots have never encountered the type before, and were doing "Operational Research in the Field".

The two airplanes that managed to approach the side of the plane went down in flames. Eric was trying to fly past the "killing zone" at the front of the bomber with his Nieuport 16, when an Albatros blew him out of the sky. They were learning, but not fast enough. Only seven turns of action, in all. And of course, all the Entente pilots came down in friendly territory, which they wouldn't have if they attacked the tail. They didn't know there weren't any guns there, and didn't really get a chance to find out. And the cannons on the front had a two-stick range, another "surprise".

Mike :)

[BobRoberts]

One thing you could look to do is start the bomber already over enemy territory. The premise being that the Germans brought in a hunting wing to do a fighter sweep over the frintline trenches allowing the Leviathan to penetrate the front line. The scenario would then commence with friendly aerodromes scrambling fighters to give chase and bring the bomber down. This would then force the German escorts to watch both the front, rear, and flanks of the bomber.

[freebird-52]

I notice that at no point in the festivities did any of the Entente pilots ever so much as think of GETTING BEHIND THE TRIPLANE WHERE MOST OF ITS GUNS CAN'T AIM;

Trust me, I was trying! That's why my Camel broke left when we started and tried to fly down the side and come from either behind or perpendicular to the wings. But its a bit hard when you have an escort tailing you and dodging the lead from that Beast!

Then when I was flying the SPAD, same thing which also most worked but miss-played a maneuver card which put me in front versus perpendicular to the left wing.

Finally, knowing my Nieuport could not take much damage, I charged in from the front-quarter angle. Hoping to get close enough with my rockets and firing both rounds which in the end worked because the Beast was taking damage for the others and her front guns were being worn-down.

Yepper, getting behind the Beast was a challenge!

[freebird-52]

One thing you could look to do is start the bomber already over enemy territory. The premise being that the Germans brought in a hunting wing to do a fighter sweep over the frintline trenches allowing the Leviathan to penetrate the front line. The scenario would then commence with friendly aerodromes scrambling fighters to give chase and bring the bomber down. This would then force the German escorts to watch both the front, rear, and flanks of the bomber.

Excellent idea and worth trying again!

[7eat51]

As Mike mentioned, I was trying with the Nieuport when someone I once knew blew me out of the sky with one shot!

[Doug]

Like Andy I was also trying to get behind the plane, but there were escorts in the way that prevented me from doing such on my first attempt. When I was down to 3 damage pts I tried to get as close as possible to hopfly give a final last blast. On my second attempt I was half way around the levantian when it went down. The esscort players did a good job. So Chris dont tell us what we should have done or not done unless you were in the game. Nothing personal just an observation!

[clipper1801]

Unpacking the defenses of the Forssmann is not so easy. Notice the black squares on the top rear of the fuselage? They are 4 sets of guns which have a wonderful side, front and rear arc of fire on each side of the rudder, on top and on bottom! Add the side "waist guns" in pairs on each side and you have a good reason not to approach from the rear or side wither! The beast is a beast! Just sayin' . . . you all did nobly. Cheers!

[freebird-52]

...nothing worst than an armchair general second guessing what's happening at the front. Lol

[OldGuy59]

One thing you could look to do is start the bomber already over enemy territory. ... This would then force the German escorts to watch both the front, rear, and flanks of the bomber.

Rob,

I was expecting the bomber to last much longer, in game time. Also, I thought it would cover more ground. At "full speed", bombers are snails!

We could randomize where Entente scouts come in, regardless of where the bomber is on a given map. It should have been visible for miles! In fact, my description in the Solo AAR of the Entente pilots approaching the bomber alluded to misjudging the size of the plane ("That's no moon!").

More practice is needed for play balance. Fun, fun, fun!

Mike :-)

[Ritterton]

Great report Mike....count me in on the next episode BUT,
I would need some help on how to prepare on my end for a Skype based game...but dang that was just awesome to see and read.

Clipper - truly I am glad that we finally got to see a game played with this item of remarkable beauty!

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Utterley speechless. Fantastic AAR, fantastic game. Skype is boundless for games now. Please more people join in, I've managed one and it was great. Opens up more opponents and competition's....now there's a thought.

[OldGuy59]

Neil,
Opponents not a problem. :thumbsup:

Competitions... Hmmm... Maybe if two players on opposite sides were at each location to verify each other's damage at the end? That would work.

Other ideas or suggestions?

Oh, and to all the people who have given me Rep for this, thank you very much! I'm not doing this for altruistic reasons, I just want to play. And for now, Skype is my only means of getting together with passionate pilots. :cheezy:

Mike :)

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

I would say the game controller draws the damage, whilst the players fly the planes. All measuring off the controller table. Is there a way you can send damage totals to each player separately?

[OldGuy59]

I would say the game controller draws the damage, whilst the players fly the planes. All measuring off the controller table. Is there a way you can send damage totals to each player separately?

Neil,
I will have to check this idea out. Right now, I don't think so. Other than by Forum PMs, and that would detract from the game, trying to monitor the forum and Skype. But I will give that some thought. There is an IM component to Skype, but I don't know if I can segment off individuals while hosting the group. More learning...

Mike :)

[csadn]

Chris,
Be fair.

The Entente pilots have never encountered the type before, and were doing "Operational Research in the Field".

I am being fair -- it's a bomber; it has a "blind spot" behind it the size of Nebraska. (And it visibly lacks a tail gun-mount, so anyone looking at it could figure that much out.) If memory serves: The only WW1-era bomber with a tail-gun was the later-model _Ilya Muromets_ designs (the G.Vs had a gun firing aft, but it couldn't hit anything at its altitude or higher). So, the rule when fighting bombers is "get behind it".

Not to mention: Getting in front of *any* unit is a Bad Idea -- it's where pretty-much every unit has its weapons pointed. Flying straight down the gullet of something that big....

I *can* see one major problem in getting behind it, tho' -- it takes six turns before there's any airspace behind it to fly into, so its blindspot is effectively screened by the map edge.

Where's the download for the cards and rules? I want to take a whack at this, and see just how hard it is to get in back of it....

[OldGuy59]

I am being fair -- it's a bomber; it has a "blind spot" behind it the size of Nebraska. (And it visibly lacks a tail gun-mount, so anyone looking at it could figure that much out.) If memory serves: The only WW1-era bomber with a tail-gun was the later-model _Ilya Muromets_ designs (the G.Vs had a gun firing aft, but it couldn't hit anything at its altitude or higher). So, the rule when fighting bombers is "get behind it".

Not to mention: Getting in front of *any* unit is a Bad Idea -- it's where pretty-much every unit has its weapons pointed. Flying straight down the gullet of something that big....

I *can* see one major problem in getting behind it, tho' -- it takes six turns before there's any airspace behind it to fly into, so its blindspot is effectively screened by the map edge.

Where's the download for the cards and rules? I want to take a whack at this, and see just how hard it is to get in back of it....

Chris,

Your description of the danger zone on this plane reminds me of an old Star Trek episode, The Doomsday Machine" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doomsday_Machine_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series))". So, are you saying we had a few early relatives of "Commodore Matt Decker" in the game?

There was a bit of room behind the bomber, and as the game progressed, more was available. If I had drawn the map on the scrolls properly, there would have been lots of room from the get-go. I'll fix that.

I also have noted the lack of rear protection. If altitude rules are used, there are arcs to the rear above the tail, but certainly not to the rear and lower. It is a notable flaw in all the gunnery, and I have been thinking of how to put a surprise in the tail. It has to be big enough for a crawl tube and a gun emplacement. As a "What-if", we could put a ventral turret on it, or a gun tube.

I posted this above, but to make this easy for you, the cards were done up by Steve [Guntruck], and can be found here:
Guntruck's Amazing Plane and Management Cards. (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?11393-Gratitude-in-a-Thread-with-Three-Posts&p=164939&viewfull=1#post164939)

Thanks for your comments Chris, and I will invite you to the next kick at the can.

Mike :)

[csadn]

Chris,

Your description of the danger zone on this plane reminds me of an old Star Trek episode, The Doomsday Machine" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doomsday_Machine_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series))". So, are you saying we had a few early relatives of "Commodore Matt Decker" in the game?

Yeah -- I know it sounds obvious, but: I keep seeing so many of these reports where people go charging headlong into the teeth of the enemy, rather than trying to get behind him; and in the games I play at the local cons, much the same. Myself: I *avoid* head-on confrontations when possible; so when I see the entire attacking force wadded up in front of the target, I have to ask: Was there not a strategy session beforehand, where someone says "OK -- you guys deal with the fighters; you guys make for the bomber's rear"? (It occasionally causes some strife, but I make sure to do this whenever I'm part of a gaming session -- I've been on the receiving end of Well-Organized A**-Kickings too many times.)


There was a bit of room behind the bomber, and as the game progressed, more was available. If I had drawn the map on the scrolls properly, there would have been lots of room from the get-go. I'll fix that.

I couldn't tell from the pics, but: How are you handling targeting? I use "center to center", so it's always possible for a unit to hide in another's blind spot (even the Roland 2-guns have one).


I also have noted the lack of rear protection. If altitude rules are used, there are arcs to the rear above the tail, but certainly not to the rear and lower. It is a notable flaw in all the gunnery, and I have been thinking of how to put a surprise in the tail. It has to be big enough for a crawl tube and a gun emplacement. As a "What-if", we could put a ventral turret on it, or a gun tube.

Well, the actual design never had a rear-firing gun-mount (or any guns -- it was originally meant as a transport), so it having a blind spot behind-and-level-or-lower is accurate. The question is: How quickly, and how well, can an enemy get back there? It would certainly throw the escort's tactics for a loop if they started the game *behind* the Giant, in order to cover its blind spot -- given how much faster the fighters are, they'd either have to establish a "caterpillar track" of units (as one flies past the tail of the Giant, it turns around and flies the other way for a bit, then turns back), or have a weaving mass of units behind it.

It's sort of difficult to determine what it might, or might not, have carried, as it was never actually built; but the loadout as shown looks period-authentic, including the neglect of the rear arc. (If memory serves: Lack of tail mounts was partly a weight-and-balance concern, and partly just the difficulty of getting back there, with all the control cables and structural gear -- Sikorsky solved the problem by mounting what was essentially a mechanic's creeper on tracks, with a straight shot from the main cabin to the rear gun.)


Thanks for your comments Chris, and I will invite you to the next kick at the can.

If I can ever get ahead on my other projects.... [eyeroll]

[tikkifriend]

Hi Mike Im back and ready for the next encounter. Boy was tha a blood fest:D As usual you all sounded like you had a great time .

May I suggest that , as in OTT, one of the participants creates a Scenario for the skype game;) I'm sure there are loads of missions out there just waiting to be re created and played world wide. It also takes the pressure off you to come up with something new each time.

[tikkifriend]

Oh Just had another thought .
As time goes on and we attract new players we could have Teams of say Europeans Vs Americans, Canadians Vs Aussies ( Didnt want to mention Aussies Vs Poms in case they loose the Ashes:lol:)
The possibilties are endless and exciting.

[celticgriffon]

Great AAR Mikey - the next time you make it to Regina we simply must get a game in! I had all of my planes ready this weekend just in case.. ;p

Cheers,
Michael

[jbmacek]

Part One - The Set-up:
This was an open invitation game, and I sent notices to lots of people who expressed interest in a Skype game...

Wow, this is incredible! Welcome to the 21st century, the future is now!
Very cool!