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View Full Version : Deflection Shooting - some thoughts.



Zoe Brain
05-01-2013, 19:00
1) Determine line of shot, peg to peg.

2)
If it crosses the rear of the target base, firing arc is as per the rules
If it crosses the left of the target base, firing arc is a line extending from the rightedge firing arc of the firer. This line must cross the target base somewhere.
If it crosses the right of the target base, firing arc is a line extending from the leftedge firing arc of the firer. This line must cross the target base somewhere.
If it crosses the front of the target base, firing arc is a line extending from the centre of the firing arc of the firer. This line must cross the target base somewhere.

Examples - blue line shows peg-to-peg measurement. green edge shows whether the peg-to-peg line crosses front, side or rear. red is the firing arc/line.

88181
88182
88183
88184
88185
88186

This means.... when you're doing a head-on pass, hits will be very rare (unless firing at bombers). When firing from the side, you have to aim well in front of the target - the classic "deflection shot". When behind, tailing, so there's no great difference in relative velocity, hitting is easy.

Zoe Brain
05-01-2013, 19:27
For rear-firing guns on bombers etc- you can only fire at the target's front as normal, side and rear as double range.

Carl_Brisgamer
05-02-2013, 18:13
Hi Zoe,

I have thought about house rules for deflection shooting. At the end of the day Wings of Glory is an abstraction of aerial combat as opposed to a simulation. The vagaries of engaging a fast moving enemy are reflected in the damage chits. Zeroes reflect a miss or superficial damage - you did not allow for adequate deflection, the enemy jinked and you only put a couple of rounds through a non critical part of the airframe, etc.

I believe however you can provide specific rules for deflection shots and rear quarter attacks without the introduction of a new mechanic. A 'Low Deflection' Bonus could apply an extra damage chit to any fire where the firing unit is 'Tailing' the enemy unit. This damage chit would be of the same type as the major weapon of the firing aircraft - so a Spitfire Mk.I firing at close range BB would add another B chit, a Messerschmitt Bf 109 firing at close range ACC would add a C chit. This would add to any other extra damage such as Attacking from Above and the Aim Bonus. Unlike the Aim Bonus however I would not make it subject to 'Disruption'.

WGS RAP House Rule Amendment p 19 - Tailing and 'Low Deflection' Bonus

An aircraft identified as 'tailing' an opponent during the Planning Phase of a turn, that is able to fire upon that same opponent during the Firing Phase of that same turn, will be able to engage that opponent with a 'low deflection' shot gaining a greater degree of accuracy. In these circumstances the target must draw an additional damage chit. The damage chit drawn is the same type as the majority of the firing unit's weapons, or in the case of an equal number the highest value damage chit. This 'Low Deflection' Bonus is cumulative with the 'Aim' bonus from consecutive fire and firing from above (p.20). Unlike the 'Aim' bonus this 'Low Deflection' bonus is not effected by 'Disruption' (p.21).

Example - At the start of a Planning Phase a Spitfire Mk.I is identified as 'Tailing' a Messerschmitt Bf 109E at long range. In the Firing Phase the Messerschmitt remains in the Spitfire's firing arc and is able to be engaged at long range. The Messerschmitt player must draw one B damage chit as the standard weapon damage, and an addition B damage chit for the 'Low Deflection' bonus. In the next planning phase the Spitfire is again identified as 'Tailing' the Messerschmitt 109 and can engage in the Firing Phase of that turn at close range. In this instance the Messerschmitt player must take two B damage chits as he standard weapon damage, an additional B damage chit for the 'Low Deflection' bonus and an A damage chit for the 'Aim' bonus.

The advantages I see in this approach is that it does not require the introduction of any additional game mechanics, it is a 'bolt-on' to the 'Tailing' rule and uses a mechanic similar to the 'Aim' bonus familiar to most players. It differentiates from the 'Aim' bonus in that the damage type is customised to the firing aircraft. It also makes firing into an enemy aircraft from the rear a much more attractive proposition, which is historically accurate. It would also increase the damage done by fighters 'Tailing' enemy bombers, which may answer some comments regarding the apparent impotence of early war fighters in this regard.

Submitted for discussion and comment.

Cheers,

Carl.

Carl_Brisgamer
05-02-2013, 18:23
For rear-firing guns on bombers etc- you can only fire at the target's front as normal, side and rear as double range.

IMHO I don't think turret or flexible mount gunners should get a low deflection bonus. They already get the 'Aim' bonus for consecutive fire and unlike fighters it is NOT subject to 'Disruption'. For a single or double rifle calibre MG gunner (A damage chit) this means that they are getting two A damage chit draws for consecutive fire - equivalent to two .50 cals.

I think the 'Low Deflection' bonus should be reserved for pilot aimed aircraft weaponry.

If you really want to provide this to bomber crew it should apply to fire that hits the target through the front or rear firing arc - the same whether the opponent aircraft is approaching or flying directly away from the bomber.

Zoe Brain
05-02-2013, 23:32
IMHO I don't think turret or flexible mount gunners should get a low deflection bonus

I was proposing that if they don't get a low-deflection bonus, they don't fire very well. If not firing at a directly incoming target, they fire as if at double the actual range. Flexible (as opposed to turret) guns shouldn't get a consecutive fire bonus at all. Just have a look at the war footage of side-mounted .50 cals - it's very much "spray and pray".

This one is difficult -- a Defiant formating with an enemy bomber and peppering it should be quite accurate. So should return fire. What matters is a) primarily rate of change of angle, then b) lead angle, then c) rate of change of range, then d) range

For an aircraft firing tailing a target, the first three are effectively zero, and at close range, all four. For the Defiant vs Bomber, only b) is non-zero.

Carl_Brisgamer
05-03-2013, 04:46
Hi Zoe,

I can see what you mean. For me, when I am trying to introduce house rules for a particular game I try not to mess with the base mechanic. Hence awarding a 'Low Deflection' bonus where certain pre-requisites are met, similar to the existing 'Aim' bonus rule.

Cheers,

Carl.

Baldrick62
05-03-2013, 05:17
I think you've both put a lot of good work into your modus operandi, and while I agree with Zoe as to the theory, as a game mechanic I have to side with Carl on this one. WoG is a game, not a simulation and the potential slowing down of the game by introducing too technical (albeit more realistic) a process (for me) detracts rather than enhances the experience.

Lord_Ninja
05-18-2013, 09:47
A simple substitute for deflection shooting would be to divide the firing arc into three parts. Having the two outer angles being the sum of the one inner angle (if I can get any good with photoshop I will post a pic). The inner angle counts as close range firing (even past the half way point on the stick) and the outer angles count as long range (even when under the half way point on the stick). Though not a perfect expression of deflection shooting it would install a certain difficulty trying to get that perfect angle shot of the enemy.

Kermit
05-18-2013, 10:16
Example 1 is a hit so why wouldn't Example 2 be a hit as well? If anything both planes would probably head towards each other making it easier for both aircraft to find their target.

Example 5 is a hit but Example 6 is not. I could only see that if there were rules on leading the target but there aren't any.