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Air Battle Mgr
05-28-2010, 07:37
I look forward to the day when I understand the game enough to give advice, but in the meantime I have another question.

WWI version of the game, What are some good tactics to use when playing altitude rules?

Additionally, what are some good Entente planes to use/avoid when playing altitude rules?

Thank you,

Air Battle Manager
Timmy

NO CAT DISCUSSIONS PLEASE:D

AlgyLacey
05-28-2010, 08:21
1. Get above 'em if you can and stay there - unless you have a rear gunner
2. Never cross the lines at less than 10,000.
3.Diving is a hell of a lot faster than climbing back up - if you have a slower climb rate than your opponent lose height only when unavoidable
4.The ground constitutes a "hard deck" - try to go below it at your peril!

csadn
05-28-2010, 22:56
What are some good tactics to use when playing altitude rules?

"There are three things in aviation which are of no use to a pilot: The runway behind him, the air above him, and the fuel in the truck."

Since there's no "sun" rules in _WoW_, it's not possible to "come out of the sun" onto someone; so the main use of altitude is to reduce the damage a foe can inflict -- unfortunately, it does as much to one's ability to damage a foe. Also, one can only ever climb or dive once in a given turn, so there's no opportunities for long, speed-gathering dives in order to "bounce" an opponent.

So, really, altitude isn't all that useful, and is pretty-much irrelevant outside bombing/ground-attack missions.


Additionally, what are some good Entente planes to use/avoid when playing altitude rules?

Look at the Altitude section of the rules -- specifically, the list of how quickly the various units can climb (the lower the number, the better). Personally, it's another reason I love my Hanriot HD.1; if need be, I can outclimb most other units, as well as out-turn them.

Oh, and: Never allow your cat to perch anywhere he can then spring onto your playing area. >;)

Air Battle Mgr
05-28-2010, 23:51
You sold me -- next time I play I am busting out my HD1 card (even though I am kind of addicted to the minis).

does someone make and HD 1 mini for WoW?:confused:

IRM
05-29-2010, 03:23
Reviresco and Skytrex both do metal kits of the Hanriot. And it's got a climb rate of 3, which is average for single-seaters.

The Fokker Triplane, Camel, SE5a and Fokker DVII all climb better (the Camel's the only fast climbing Entente plane with an official model, the SE5 is due out this Summer). The Siemens -Schuckert DIV can outclimb ANYTHING !

Other than using Climb/Dive manoeuvres to avoid enemy fire and shake off tailing planes, altitude rules also allow you to use the Split-S and Overdive ("double dive") manoeuvres and the collision rules.

Also, if you're up against two-seaters you can approach them from below then pop up to attack once you're in a favourable position. IMO two-seaters aren't as deadly with altitude rules, making for a more balanced game.

JBParkland
05-29-2010, 05:39
One altitude tactic I would recommend is losing and gaining a level within a single turn, using a split-S followed by a climb. This means you can pop down to an opponent's level to get a shot in then climb up again out of the way by the end of the turn:

eg. Start at Level 3 with no climb counters. Do a stall as your last card of a turn. In the next turn, do an immelmann (which loses you a climb counter, so you're then down to level 2), straight (still at level 2), then a climb (gain a climb counter, so back up to level 3).

I think this is the only way you can lose and gain a level in the same turn. It also works with any plane that can immelmann, even those with a poor climb rate. If you have a poor climb rate (eg. worse that 3), then Split-Ssing is a good way to lose a level while retaining the ability to get back up a level.

flash
05-29-2010, 12:32
Only recently started playing altitude rules & I'd go along with csadns conclusions at #3but if you have to play it my tips would be: choose a plane with a good climb rate; where possible start at the same level as your target as it makes them sweat; get an increment of altitude asap as helps avoid collisions and don't spend so much time worrying about altitude that you get out of touch of the combat as it's hard to catch up. We had 9 pilots in one of the last games I played - one guy got to max alt but never fired his guns as we were too far away & below him..... blowing his sides 2 seater to bits !!
You gotta try them though. flash

IRM
05-29-2010, 16:49
That's why in the miniatures rules models can only be at 1-4 pegs height. There is a rule that allows the floor to be changed if all players agree, but all planes must still stay within the 4-peg "band" or they disengage.

csadn
05-30-2010, 22:45
The Fokker Triplane, Camel, SE5a and Fokker DVII all climb better (the Camel's the only fast climbing Entente plane with an official model, the SE5 is due out this Summer). The Siemens -Schuckert DIV can outclimb ANYTHING !

These are all late-war "superfighters"; the average climb rate is closer to 4, tho' that's mainly due to the early-war-fighter packs (and god knows what the Bomber supplement will do to the average...); and with the sheer volume of "DIY" WWI minis, having an "official" mini don't enter into it. (I'd make myself a HD or two, except my modeling skills are Rubbish. :) )

IRM
05-31-2010, 03:09
True, but the Hanriot wasn't adopted for general use by the Italians and Belgians until summer 1917 (same time as the Camel and SE5a appeared) and was used as their standard fighter until the end of the war. So it had to compete with or fight those "superfighters".

That said, I've got a pair of them and they regularly fly rings 'round my Albatros fighters:)

csadn
05-31-2010, 22:42
True, but the Hanriot wasn't adopted for general use by the Italians and Belgians until summer 1917 (same time as the Camel and SE5a appeared) and was used as their standard fighter until the end of the war. So it had to compete with or fight those "superfighters".

From most accounts I've been able to find (not many, admittedly) the D.VIIs and such didn't make it to Italy in large numbers; and both Italy and Belgium rotated their HDs to second-line whenever they could get better units (for ex., SPAD XIIIs).


That said, I've got a pair of them and they regularly fly rings 'round my Albatros fighters:)

True -- the HD seems to be the "halfway point" between "ordinary" units and "superfighters", esp. with the A-deck variant.

Hamburger
10-27-2010, 04:28
@JBParkland, you have to do a straight before and after an Immelmann and if you're bouncing a 2 seater, it would be best to dive (avoid that rear gun) this may cause you to overshoot it but then you could stall after a straight to get behind him again.

Gallo Rojo
10-27-2010, 05:41
tactics:

you may try on diving in order to run away from another fighter who is tailing you -- since if you drop one altitude level the fighter at your 6 has to be at half-rule distance to keep shooting at you... this tactic works only if the tailing pilot doesn't includes a 'dive' card in his own 3-cards planed turn to stay in your back.

over-diving (stall-dive-straight) is also good as an evasive maneuver -- but you have to play a 'stall' as a first card, which may be risky since the tailing fighter may close range and deliver a nice hot-iron shower to you in that first maneuver.

about bouncing: with my club we use the following house rule: if you attack a plane after a dive, it's something like if you were 'bouncing' or 'coming from the sun' kidda stuff: the attacker plane picks two cards from the damage deck and chooses the one he likes better to nail his opponent (discard the other one) -- it's an 'ace' ability, we just incorporated it as an ability for anyone who is shooting after a dive.

Gallo Rojo
10-27-2010, 08:51
Also, one can only ever climb or dive once in a given turn, so there's no opportunities for long, speed-gathering dives in order to "bounce" an opponent.


made me wonder... is it there any house rule around to re-create 'bouncing' attacks?

Just thinking about a possible one: over-dive then climb

card sequence: stall - dive (loose one altitude counter) - straight (loose a second altitude counter) - climb (wing an altitude counter -- instead of a climb counter).

any thoughts?

Pooh
10-27-2010, 10:55
There are some optional altitude rules in the WW1 section that i think do the trick.
BTW they're not mine
Pooh

MayorJim
10-27-2010, 16:23
We've started to work altitude rules into our games...but they just seem to slow the pace down. For scenarios with balloons, AA, MGs, or bombing runs/save the pilot, etc...altitude may make more sense. We have actually had a few fun games using a "save the downed pilot" scenario and a bombing one and did not use altitude rules. I agree that they add a new twist to the game but we probably won't use them that often.

Naharaht
10-27-2010, 16:42
What do you do if a player will not agree to changing 'the floor'?

MayorJim
10-27-2010, 18:05
Well...you could a) make him supply the extra "pegs" or b) just take him out! :o Never had a problem yet with agreeing on the floor or ceiling or any other issue...yet