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View Full Version : AAR (SND week 2) - Spanish Civil War - Battle of Guadalajara March 1937 (Part Two)



Carl_Brisgamer
04-01-2013, 22:10
Battle of Guadalajara

(continued from http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?14330-AAR-(SND-week-2)-Spanish-Civil-War-Battle-of-Guadalajara-March-1937-(Part-One))

12 March 1937 - Over the the Tajuña River north west of Brihuega

After shooting down two Republican Polikarpov I-16 fighters, Oberleutnant Herwig Knüppel (6-111) and Unteroffizier Willi Gödecke (6-112) of Staffel 4, Jagdgruppe 88 (4.J/88) begin a climbing turn to face two Soviet built Tupolev SB-2 bombers heading for the Nationalist positions.

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Unknown to the German pilots an 8,8cm Flak 36 of the Legion Kondor had arrived in the area and was preparing to engage the incoming aircraft.

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The SB-2 'Katyushkas' are two of 18 of the type assigned to Grupo No. 12 of the Republican Air Force piloted by Russian volunteers. SB-2 'White 34' pilot and flight commander is Stepan Kretov, with Vladimir Novikoff as bombardier and Mikhail Shevelev as gunner. SB-2 'White 46' is piloted by Alexei Golovachev with Anatoly Liapidevsky as bombardier and gunner Vasily Orlov.

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Knüppel and Gödecke push their throttles to the firewall straining to gain some height on the Republican bombers.

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Kapitan Kretov watches the sleek Messerschmitts come on with undue concern. He is confident that even heavily laden with their bombloads his fast SBs can reach their objectives on the western bank of the Tajuña before they can intercept.

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Knüppel gives up the hope of attacking from above and orders a starboard quarter beam attack.

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Both Messerschmitts engage Kretov's bomber without obvious effect.

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As the Messerschmitts pass behind his SB-2, Kretov's gunner opens fire. The German pilots continue to shoot with their twin MG17s, but the bombers seem to easily absorb the damage. The Flak battery opens fire, rounds bursting ahead of Kretov's machine.

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So far untroubled by the Nationalist fighters, the bombardier of 'White 46' calls 'Bombs gone!' at a height of 4,000 metres..........

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......dropping 1100kg of high explosive and shrapnel right on top of the Nationalist positions on the banks of the Tajuña River!

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Kretov mistimes his run and aborts a strike against the river bank defenses, turning to port to attack other depth positions. At the same time the Flak 88 round bursts right beside the SB-2, without any noticeable effect.

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Unable to prevent the bombing run, Knüppel and Gödecke press their attack on 'White 46', with gunner Vasily Orlov returning fire.

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Orlov's burst catches Oberleutnant Knüppel's 'Berta'. With no power and very little control, Knüppel fights with the stricken machine to bring it in for a crash landing behind the Nationalist lines. The German officer sustains serious wounds in the crash and is pulled from the wrecked Messerschmitt by Italian troops, who immediately transport him to a first aid station in Brihuega.

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Kretov in 'White 34' completes his bomb run, but his bombardier Novikoff drops his load too late and it explodes behind a company of Italian tankettes. With Gödecke pursuing 'White 46', Kretov pulls hard to port and heads for home.

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Unteroffizier Gödecke climbs to 5,000 metres and continues to engage 'White 46' with an altitude advantage.

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Despite putting burst after burst into the Republican machine, one of which damages the no.2 engine, his fire has no appreciable effect on the SB.

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Golovachev brings his damaged SB-2 back over the Tajuña River, his gunner Vasily Orlov keeping the pursuing Messerschmitt at bay.

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Still the brave Willi Gödecke comes on, pressing his attack.

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Gödecke dives at the SB-2, expending the last of his ammunition. Admitting defeat Gödecke is forced to break off and head back to Almorox as both SB-2 escape to the east.

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The Butcher's Bill.

Oberleutnant Knüppel's 'Berta' took exactly 14 damage points, seven of which had been inflicting in the earlier battle with the I-16s. As it was exactly his aircraft's damage points it allowed him to bring the aircraft down for a forced landing. Unfortunately my 'A' chit draw for pilot wounds resulted in serious injury to Knüppel.

Unteroffizier Gödecke's 109 took 10 damage points, three from the earlier fight and seven from the SB gunners.

SB-2 'White 34' took just seven points of damage, including a zero from the flak hit.

SB-2 'White 46' took 14 'A' chits resulting in 13 points of damage. Only one had special damage (engine hit) and almost half (6) were zero damage draws.

Despite the loss of two I-16 fighters to Unteroffizier Willi Gödecke in the first part, the Republicans came back and won the day in part two shooting down Oberleutnant Knüppel's Messerschmitt Bf 109B-1 and scoring a direct hit on Nationalist positions. German pilot Gödecke is credited with his two victories, and the Russian gunner of 'White 46' Vasily Orlov has his victory confirmed.

By what of the two downed Russian fighter pilots Alexei Alexandrovich Denisov and Nikolay Sergeyevich Artemyev? Their fates will be made clear in the epilogue to this aerial battle as the Spanish Republic ground forces attack the Italians defending Brihuega (using the Axis and Allies Miniatures Game), the results of which I'll post tomorrow!

Tupolev SB-2 WGS stats:
Base size: WGS Bomber
Manouver Deck: XB (440kph)
Armament: Short - An/Ad/Av, Long - An/Ad/Av
Damage Points: 24 (no crew armour or self sealing tanks)
Top Altitude: 11 (9,300 metres)
Climb rate: 6 (4.7 m/s)

Flying Officer Kyte
04-02-2013, 01:38
Very interesting read Carl.
Those two Tupolevs managed to absorb a lot of hammer.
Rob.

Carl_Brisgamer
04-02-2013, 02:48
Very interesting read Carl.
Those two Tupolevs managed to absorb a lot of hammer.
Rob.

Essentially the Bf109B-1 has the same armament as a Fokker D.VII. Using WW1 firepower trying to shoot down a modern fast bomber, even one without self sealing tanks or crew armour, is a very difficult task. With experience like this you can see why the Germans went to cannon armament for their Bf 109s by 1939.

HTRAINo
04-02-2013, 10:31
Sorry Carl, I never saw this one pop up! Ok, so the low-down is Nationalist victory part 1, and Republican victory part 2?

Carl_Brisgamer
04-02-2013, 10:56
Sorry Carl, I never saw this one pop up! Ok, so the low-down is Nationalist victory part 1, and Republican victory part 2?

Correct!

HTRAINo
04-02-2013, 13:59
It's up in the WWI General discussions now. Points wise, I have awarded a 'draw' result. If you want me to amend it, please pm me.

Need to ask a mod to set up a sticky for these SND matches and AAR's etc. :thumbsup:
So, as it stands you could replay the Spanish Civil War scenario again sometime in the future and accumulate more points for either side in SND.

Marechallannes
04-03-2013, 00:23
Where did you get the statistics for the planes?

Self made, or a little help from Zoe?

Additional: Did you use the aim bonus for continous or higer shots?

Carl_Brisgamer
04-03-2013, 14:46
Where did you get the statistics for the planes?

Self made, or a little help from Zoe?

Additional: Did you use the aim bonus for continous or higer shots?


The Polikarpov I-16 Typ 6 is an official aircraft, but the Messerschmitt Bf109B and the Tupolev SB-2 are my 'unofficial' stats. For WGS I have a number of excel charts I have built up over the past four years to help with generating non-standard aircraft stats. I look at the flight characteristics for the unofficial aircraft and match them to the closest existing manouver deck. The firepower is easy enough, as are climb rates and top altitudes (or so I thought until I opened the WGS RAP!). Damage points are also set in comparison with similar official aircraft.

Alex and I use all the basic, advanced and optional rules including the additional A damage chit for the aim bonus and height bonus.

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7eat51
04-03-2013, 16:34
Great adaptation of WGS materials to Spanish Civil War planes.

Nice mat. Did you design it? I have not seen one with a river like that before.

Degodave - a new member - needs to read these. He is currently learning about the Spanish Civil War.

Carl_Brisgamer
04-03-2013, 21:10
Great adaptation of WGS materials to Spanish Civil War planes.

Nice mat. Did you design it? I have not seen one with a river like that before.

Degodave - a new member - needs to read these. He is currently learning about the Spanish Civil War.

Hi Eric,

Check out this thread here for how to make the maps: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?13627-How-to-make-a-playing-map-in-20-minutes-(plus-printing-time)

I have had an interest in the Spanish Civil War since I was a kid - fascinating period of history.

These threads have information regarding aircraft used in the Spanish Civil War:

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?12439-WGS-Spanish-Civil-War-1-200-AIM-Legion-Kondor-Messerschmitt-Bf109E-s

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?12481-WGS-Spanish-Civil-War-1-200-AIM-Spanish-Republican-Polikarpov-I-16-Typ-10-s

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?14294-WGS-Spanish-Civil-War-1936-39-1-200-AIM-Spanish-Republican-Tupolev-SB-2M100-bombers

A very detailed website regarding the use of airpower in the Spanish Civil War is http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/scw.htm

Cheers,

Carl.

7eat51
04-03-2013, 22:26
Thanks a lot Carl.

Just checked out your linked threads. Great work on the planes.

I am curious how you made the decals.

Lt. S.Kafloc
04-05-2013, 11:24
Lovely AAR, fantastic action all the way. I thought the 2 Me109's had the 2 bombers.....wrong.

degodave
04-05-2013, 13:22
Very cool stuff! I have not yet done anything with planes in regards to the Spanish Civil War, but I recently got a Spanish Civil War boardgame that I'm looking forward to playing. Seeing your photos makes me want to go home and start playing! It has little (as far as I can tell) to do with planes, but focuses more on ground troop movement - basically set up where actions you make affect the morale of either side, and the game is won by either the Nationalists or Republicans reaching higher morale.

Keep posting great photos and AARs please!

Dave

Carl_Brisgamer
04-05-2013, 13:40
Very cool stuff! I have not yet done anything with planes in regards to the Spanish Civil War, but I recently got a Spanish Civil War boardgame that I'm looking forward to playing. Seeing your photos makes me want to go home and start playing! It has little (as far as I can tell) to do with planes, but focuses more on ground troop movement - basically set up where actions you make affect the morale of either side, and the game is won by either the Nationalists or Republicans reaching higher morale.

Keep posting great photos and AARs please!

Dave

Hi Dave,

I'm glad you enjoyed the AARs, we sure had fun playing the games.

Is this the board game you are playing?

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I almost bought it last year - but I spent all my gaming budget on Wings of Glory instead!

Cheers,

Carl.

Carl_Brisgamer
04-05-2013, 13:43
Lovely AAR, fantastic action all the way. I thought the 2 Me109's had the 2 bombers.....wrong.

Hi Neil,

The twin 7.92mm MG 17's on the early Bf 109B just aren't up to the task of taking out a bomber - maybe if I had four Messerschmitts.........

I thought I might have had more luck with the Flak 88 - but I kept missing - and when I did get a hit it was a 'zero' damage chit.

Cheers,

Carl.

degodave
04-05-2013, 13:48
Hey Carl, yes that's the one! I have opened it and read the rules but have not played it yet. It seems like it will be a lot of fun.
I'll let you know how it goes! I may wind up playing some with Eric (7eat51 - a good friend and the one who introduced me to Wings of Glory) so I'm sure it will be very intense and bloody!

Hoo roo,
Dave

7eat51
04-05-2013, 14:30
I may wind up playing some with Eric (7eat51 - a good friend and the one who introduced me to Wings of Glory) so I'm sure it will be very intense and bloody!

I can promise you that. :guns:

Lt. S.Kafloc
04-05-2013, 15:11
Hadn't realised only 2 machine guns! That's the difference between a 'jockey' and a 'trainer'. I only fly them.....have to get into some books and get my background info up to date.


Hi Neil,

The twin 7.92mm MG 17's on the early Bf 109B just aren't up to the task of taking out a bomber - maybe if I had four Messerschmitts.........

I thought I might have had more luck with the Flak 88 - but I kept missing - and when I did get a hit it was a 'zero' damage chit.

Cheers,

Carl.

Flying Officer Kyte
04-06-2013, 08:36
Just realised that this is the sequel to the one I've just read.
Makes complete sense now, and what an epic struggle by the pair of Germans.
Rob.

Carl_Brisgamer
04-06-2013, 22:59
The following battle was played using Axis and Allies Miniatures Game pieces to represent Nationalist and Republican forces.

March 12, 1937 - As the Legion Kondor Messerschmitts battled the SB-2 bombers of Gruppo No.12, on the ground the Republican forces were assaulting the Nationalist defenses on the Tajuña River. With Russian volunteer pilots Alexei Alexandrovich Denisov and Nikolay Sergeyevich Artemyev forced to bail out over the Nationalist lines, their survival depended on the success of the Republican offensive - neither side was inclined to take downed airmen as prisoners.

On the Republican side........

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the French Commune de Paris Battalion..............

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the Italian Giuseppe Garibaldi Battalion..............

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Republican conscript infantry supported by Soviet supplied and crewed T-26 and BT-5 tanks.

Defending units of the Corpo Truppe Volontarie ..........

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on the left flank.........

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and the right flank, supported by a Panzer I of the Legion Kondor.

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Despite the best efforts of the Legion Kondor the Republican bombers got through, with one dropping his bombload directly onto the Italian right flank defensive positions........

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with devastating effect. As well as losing a vital anti-tank gun and machine-gun post the Italian commmander was also killed.

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The Republicans advance on the river, the Soviet armour in the centre and International Brigade troops on the flanks.

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On the left the Garibaldi Battalion runs into a hail of machine gun fire from their Fascist countrymen.

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In the centre and the right the T26's and BT5 rush to the river whilst the French International volunteers advance.

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The BT5 is hit and destroyed by an Italian 47mm gun, but the return fire destroys the Nationalist positions.

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The rest of the Soviet tanks and the French Commune de Paris International Battalion ford the river........

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prompting the Italian tankette and German Panzer I to make a desparate counter attack.

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The 45mm guns of the T26 tanks make short work of the lightly armoured Nationalist vehicles.

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Soon all resistance is crushed and the Republican forces are ready to push on to Briheuga.

Their victory means the downed Russian pilots are liberated by Republican forces, and fortunately for Denisov and Artemyev they have enough Spanish to convince the Republican conscripts they are on their side! Within a day they are back at their airfield ready to take to the skies once again in defense of the Spanish Republic and their Socialist ideals.

The Legion Kondor will be ready to meet them.

Alexander really enjoyed kicking my butt in this game, particularly making the 10 dice attack on six hexes on the right flank to represent the SB-2 raid. For those who play Axis and Allies I used the Communist Partisan miniatures as the Paris Commune International Battalion, Yugoslav Partisans as the Garibaldi Battalion, and standard Mosin Nagant infantry and Soviet conscripts as Republican infantry.

Flying Officer Kyte
04-07-2013, 01:14
Nice to see the combined wargame interwoven with your air campaign Carl.
Gives a much deeper perspective and meaning to what goes on above the clouds.
Rob.

Carl_Brisgamer
04-07-2013, 01:21
Nice to see the combined wargame interwoven with your air campaign Carl.
Gives a much deeper perspective and meaning to what goes on above the clouds.
Rob.

Alexander is on school holidays and has been asking to play AAM again. The minis have been packed away for ages so it was a good chance to get them out and have a game.