Utra-simple altitude rules

[Zoe Brain]

Combat maneuvers are different from sustained climb rate. So we can say that all aircraft have the same dive and climb rate when doing tactical (combat) maneuvers.

Rules:
1. Go up one peg if climbing, down up to 3 when diving. Down by 1 in a split S, up by one in a half loop. Aircraft with climb 7 or above cannot do tactical climbs.
2. Multiply all ceilings by 3.

Sustained Climb:
1. Each turn of a "sustained climb" must consist of straight, climb, straight, and is announced at the end of the previous turn.
2. For each X cards played in a "sustained climb", go up 2 pegs, where X is the climb rate. So an aircraft with climb rate 2 that does S-C-S, S-C-S plays 6 cards, so goes up by 6. One with climb rate 3 goes up by 4 pegs, one with climb rate 4 up by 3 pegs, one with climb rate 5 or 6 goes up 2 pegs.

Firing:
Half firing range if there's a 2 peg difference in altitude. If more, firing is prohibited.

[Dan-Sam]

It looks good and simply. Have you tried it with some new players?

[Пилот]

Sounds both good and playable.

"'sustained climb' must consist of straight, climb, straight, and is announced at the end of the previous turn" is fine.

I woud only change to: after all players have their manouvers choosen. (to avoid any unfair advantage).

[Zoe Brain]

Sounds both good and playable.

"'sustained climb' must consist of straight, climb, straight, and is announced at the end of the previous turn" is fine.

I woud only change to: after all players have their manouvers choosen. (to avoid any unfair advantage).

I deliberately did it that way - sustained climb is not something you do with enemy nearby. You get clear of the furball, then grab altitude in a steady climb, before coming back in. It allows genuine "boom n zoom" tactics, evasion by good climbers etc.

I've tried this in one game with new players - seemed to work well.

[Пилот]

I understand what are you talking about, but I still see it as opportunity for enemy to follow - in the same time when you are going up. In some way you loose advantage of unexpected climbing.
But, I must say, it's not a critical problem. Overall idea is very good.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Sounds interesting Zoe, and for me it solves the one thing I hate in the game which is the time it takes to show any noticable climb when struggling to get back up to height. At least here you will see a physical difference straight away. Climb counters are a bit metaphysical for my taste.
Rob.

[sbutton]

Rules:
1. Go up one peg if climbing, down up to 3 when diving. Down by 1 in a split S, up by one in a half loop. Aircraft with climb 7 or above cannot do tactical climbs.


Zoe,

As far as I am concerned altitude rules are something that needs to be in the game as the attraction is the 3D aspect (otherwise you wold be manuvering on the ground and I hope Sails of Glory will cover my interest for that !).

What I have been playing with is using climb and dive rates based on 100 ft increments using altitude bases to register.

One issue I have, and you mention in your quote above is that you may dive up to 3 pegs, when and how do you announce your dive amount to stop and unfair advantage ?

Do you have an opinion on a sustained dive including an overdive especially as there is now a link to diving and being on fire.

Also does the sustained climb count as a straight for being on fire i.e. not allowed ?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

As far as the sustained climb goes Steve, I would think that if you were on fire you could not play a climb of any sort as it is a straight.
Attilio explained that an overdive to put out a fire is an exception to the no straight rule.
Rob.

[Zoe Brain]

One issue I have, and you mention in your quote above is that you may dive up to 3 pegs, when and how do you announce your dive amount to stop and unfair advantage ?
You just do it at the time - there's an immediate visual effect. If you're worried, just dive 2. You'll be able to catch up with any aircraft you're in an advantageous position to attack, no matter if he's dived 1, 2, or 3.
Another way of playing it is to say all dives are 3, no more, no less. Except for those with the specific Ace ability allowing them to change that.


Do you have an opinion on a sustained dive including an overdive especially as there is now a link to diving and being on fire.

Not at the moment. I'd usually use these with my own rules for power dives etc. Remember, the current overdive rules require 2 consecutive steep maneuvers (stall, dive) so break the rules anyway. My power dive rules do not.

We play so that anyone, not just daredevil (IIRC) aces can do 2 steeps. You just take an A class damage doing so. Powerdives allow non-Ace pilots to do inverted dives rather than the more difficult "steep bunt" at negative gee.


Also does the sustained climb count as a straight for being on fire i.e. not allowed ?Absolutely. The nice, steady, smooth, optimum angle of attack you need for good sustained climbing performance is exactly right for moving burning fuel along the fuselage, chimneying flame so it does the most damage....

Again, we allow straights when on fire - you just take an additional A class damage for each one. This way a wounded pilot + on fire doesn't cause a rules contradiction.

[sbutton]

Thanks Zoe,

Will definately try these rules, one quick question.. do you gain a peg with immelmann or not ?

My take on it that you will roughly level out on the return so should be no gain or loss.

[grumpybear]

Will give this a try next time, looks like a great idea.

[Zoe Brain]

one quick question.. do you gain a peg with immelmann or not ?.

Half-loop down (ie Split S) - Stall, Reversal losing peg, straight
Half-loop up - Straight, Reversal gaining peg, stall
Immelman(Hammerhead) - Straight, Reversal no change, straight

[IRM]

Interesting, really like how it makes altitude a bit more dynamic in play. I'll need to give that a try next game.

[Zoe Brain]

Not only does it get rid of climb counters, simplifying things a bit, it's easy to see if something is above or below for collisions, extra damage when firing at targets above/below etc. It allows bolt=on rules like the WWII schlagemusik for upper-wing mounted lewises.. lots of advantages.

The bad things - when exactly do you gain pegs in a sustained climb? At the end? As each card is played? Back to climb counters again, except that sustained climbs are really only for when you're not being shot at. Perhaps restrict them so no enemy can be within firing range for them to be done. That's not hard if you break from a furball. Get out of the dogfight, then climb to an advantageous height, then swoop. Spad XIIIs become better, they can break out quicker.

Example - in this picture, the Spad VII in he background could do a sustained climb. The Spad XIII in the foreground probably able to in next turn. The rest - combat maneuvers only.

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82286&d=1363671865

That was a game using these rules BTW - though with no sustained climb to keep it simple for those who'd never played before. Note the heights - 3,3,4,4,4,6 even then.