What are the limits of team work and communication?

[Omegalazarus]

Okay, I finally got to play with my friends this weekend. I have the Duel Pack rules, but I bought 2 extra planes for everyone to try and see if we all liked the game (we did!). However, I have been wondering about something.

When I was teaching the game, I told them there was 'no information sharing' which was my, apparently poor, way of saying that damage and effects that are secret are secret to everyone, even your team mate. I think this is correct as it keeps with the idea of not being able to relate specific damage and otherwise would slow the game and give things away, as a team mate showing his friend a damage card is a clue to something happening.

However, after the game (My girlfriend and I won, beating them both times. :waf::slysmile:) they mentioned something about having difficulty because they couldn't plan during the game. My team happened to not plan since we were defending and the game just played out that way (plus, I was using a Dr1 for the first time and concentrating on my moves the whole game). It occurred to me that they understood my direction as that they could not strategize at all once the game began. I didn't clarify since we were done playing and it would only have lead to guffaws of "that's why we lost!" and I wasn't sure if I stumbled on a real rule or not anyway since it never occured to me.

My quesion - Is there a rule in the book that discusses team communication? From a historic point, I could see it both ways so that isn't helpful. Anyway, I am interested in what the game says about the game and not what history says about the game.

Thoughts - While team communication would definitely make team play more cooperative, it would undoubtedly slow the game down as people tend to agonize over how to get the very best out of a team effort. There is also the possibility of the 'alpha gamer' telling his team which cards to play because he is the master of all games. One thing I particularly like about the game is its speed and I would hate to lose that in such a plodding manner. Also, though it was frustrating to collide with my team mate (which we did) when a simple, "You go left. I'll go right" could have solved that, it wasn't a game killer (as I fear that excessive planning might be).

Also, I think having only pre-planning increases the tension as enemy contact changes the plan and players then have to read their team as well as their foe in order to see what is going on and best contribute. It also helps reinforce the quick action that is taking place where pilots couldn't fly a holding pattern until they decided to turn left or right.


Recap - Is there a game rule or mention in WoG about teams communicating? IF so, what? If not, how have you all played it and what results did it give you?

[fast.git]

Not certain about the rules, but I don't remember anything official. I'll check to confirm when I get home. In terms of how we play? We allow pregame planning based upon the given mission parameters, but nothing in game... beyond maybe a quick "I'll get the one on the left," or "follow me!"

[Hunter]

Here in Phoenix, we both (teams) strategize before a mission. If our team mate is within a half ruler of each other we can use hand signals, leads to some funny card picking. Re: damage awareness, we try to keep hits to ourselves but obvious damage such as, fire, smoke, gun jams, wounded pilot/crew, engine damage, and rudder damage are visible to all. That is, if you are paying attention to any changes in flight characteristics. Remember, to just have fun playing. For example, if your group agrees on a 'House Rule' to cover aerial communication then great, enjoy. As long as the House Rule does not conflict with the general operating rules from the rulebook. In your home group you can do pretty much what you all agree to, however, at the various gaming cons the WoG rules will be the ones to follow. So I would suggest that you not have too many house rules that could cause confusion at a con. Just my 2 pfennigs worth.

Good job on getting the dueling packs.

[Omegalazarus]

In your home group you can do pretty much what you all agree to, however, at the various gaming cons the WoG rules will be the ones to follow. So I would suggest that you not have too many house rules that could cause confusion at a con.

Thanks for the advice. My group tends toward doing rule book that way we can play with others without headache. As such, it seems like we played it correctly (by accident). We did pre-planning, but no in mission communication other than who to shoot at. I like the idea of simple info that could be made by hand signals like "I'll go left" and we might try something with that later. For now we will stick with no commo and give it a fair chance to work. Anyway, that seems the fastest anyway.

[Nightbomber]

Good thread. In my group we allow only hand waving/signals, no verbal communication;). It seems to be quite historically accurate and - most of all - fun:)

[fast.git]

Good thread. In my group we allow only hand waving/signals, no verbal communication;). It seems to be quite historically accurate and - most of all - fun:)
And, don't forget, hysterical... getting bounced by two Camels that then proceed to collide with one another... followed by shouts of "I thought you were going to head straight for him!"

:clap::clap::clap:

[diceslinger]

I have a replica Sopwith Camel engine that I fire up for games. Any communication you can do over that is legal! ;)

[wbfritze]

I thought that, in the rules, it stated that you need to keep your damage a secret. To me that means from everyone. I do like the "replica engine" idea. Might get one booted out of the gaming store but it would make for a good story.

Pre-game strategy...isn't that was "pre flight" briefings were all about? Hand signals make sense but since there weren't any radios back in WWI (at least as far as I know), once my crew take flight, no verbal communication is allowed.

[somaliavet]

Here in Phoenix, we both (teams) strategize before a mission. If our team mate is within a half ruler of each other we can use hand signals, leads to some funny card picking.

I really like the half ruler's length caveat to the hand signals rule.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

For WGS it's not an issue due to radio comms, I allow players to share info on damage and BRIEFLY discuss tactics, no 5 minute time outs. For WGF as stated in previous posts hand signals are permissible, and a pre-flight briefing is desirable. We also use the 'Tailing' rule for friendly aircraft to allow formation flying - it cuts down the collisions!

[Omegalazarus]

I am glad to hear that we were playing it correctly with no in flight communication and absolutely no damage sharing. I might try out the ruler length hand signals (or a single tactic callout ex. You go left -OR- I'll shoot him.) after we play more. To me a lot of the tension was that isolation feeling that even though I had a team mate in the air, I was still on my own in a way. - Love the Camel engine idea. :clap:

[KirkH]

You could go 100% authentic and fire different colored flares out of a Very pistol - as long as your wife doesn't mind an occasional blaze when you set the drapes on fire. :)

[Nightbomber]

You could go 100% authentic and fire different colored flares out of a Very pistol - as long as your wife doesn't mind an occasional blaze when you set the drapes on fire. :) :lol:

[fast.git]

We also use the 'Tailing' rule for friendly aircraft to allow formation flying - it cuts down the collisions!
Huh. Hadn't thought about that. Brilliant!

[Hunter]

And, don't forget, hysterical... getting bounced by two Camels that then proceed to collide with one another... followed by shouts of "I thought you were going to head straight for him!"

:clap::clap::clap:



:lol::lol: I've seen that before!

[Carl_Brisgamer]

And, don't forget, hysterical... getting bounced by two Camels that then proceed to collide with one another... followed by shouts of "I thought you were going to head straight for him!"

:clap::clap::clap:

If I am flying close formation I will gain one climb counter, then there is no chance of collision.

[AlgyLacey]

:lol::lol: I've seen that before!

I've even done it when I was flying BOTH aircraft involved (Blush!):brickwal:

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Like Carl, I always put my aircraft at different climb heights if possible. We have discussed the flair idea before, and I like the idea of having a slip of coloured paper, playing card size, which you could hold up before a set of moves is selected. if your Wingman notices, all to the good. If not play on and damn the consequences.
Rob.

[grumpybear]

We do pre flight plan, once flying a coloured card can be flashed but only within 1 ruler range.

[Rabbit 3]

I have a replica Sopwith Camel engine that I fire up for games. Any communication you can do over that is legal! ;)
Do you use castor oil as a lubricant and how do you deal with the side-effects?:envy:

[Пилот]

We don't use any rules, but we are trying to avoid verbal communication.

[STEPHEN NAPIER]

Thanks, the idea of a half ruler length for hand signals to be the used during the game. Pre game discussion is accepted as OK. I am sure that a flare/very gun could be used to make a general signal but this was a WW2 option. Biggles used a flare gun in one of his WW1 stories, but may be a technical inaccuracy??

[fast.git]

Thanks, the idea of a half ruler length for hand signals to be the used during the game. Pre game discussion is accepted as OK. I am sure that a flare/very gun could be used to make a general signal but this was a WW2 option. Biggles used a flare gun in one of his WW1 stories, but may be a technical inaccuracy??

Accurate, so far as I know. McCudden used flares to signal his flight to rally 'round him and RTB. By extension, one can imagine 2-3 different colors representing different things...


We also use the 'Tailing' rule for friendly aircraft to allow formation flying - it cuts down the collisions!

I've tried this and it works nicely.

[7eat51]

I like the idea of half-ruler length hand signals, but I think I would only use it if not in a dogfight.

I just picked up the tip about flying at one climb counter higher. Love these forums.

[seagull]

Coloured paper for flares is also a good tip. Of course the rest of the team have to a) see it and b) remember what it meant.;)

[Captain Chum]

Yeah, the half-ruler length hand signals are a cool idea. :cool:

[Doug]

I really like the half ruler's length caveat to the hand signals rule.

Me to sound fair and prity accurate.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Coloured paper for flares is also a good tip. Of course the rest of the team have to a) see it and b) remember what it meant.;)

Exactly so Chris, and you would be suprised how much the interpretation of the flare adds to the animated discussions after the game over a beer or three:brickwal::mad:.:smack::boxing::eek:
Just joking.:surrender::pint:
Rob.

[Putraack]

I'm coming late to this thread, but I had to jump in. I'm actually running a role-playing game of mercenary pilots, WoG is our system for handling the flying parts-- so the flights are many vs. one, or many vs. few, so far. All of the players are very new to the system, I'm only a few games ahead of them. This weekend's flight (purely air-to-mud) featured 3 near-collisions with other planes, and one should-have-been crash into a hillside-- I added some terrain at various altitudes, since they were fighting in a mountain pass.

Are many collisions common in a 5-plane sortie?
Is this a factor of inexperience?
None of them attempted to use the 'Tailing' rule, I think none of them understood the implications for formation flying-- is it allowed for wingmen?

I think I will adopt the idea of hand signals and flares-- that's neat.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

I'm coming late to this thread, but I had to jump in. I'm actually running a role-playing game of mercenary pilots, WoG is our system for handling the flying parts-- so the flights are many vs. one, or many vs. few, so far. All of the players are very new to the system, I'm only a few games ahead of them. This weekend's flight (purely air-to-mud) featured 3 near-collisions with other planes, and one should-have-been crash into a hillside-- I added some terrain at various altitudes, since they were fighting in a mountain pass.

Are many collisions common in a 5-plane sortie?
Is this a factor of inexperience?
None of them attempted to use the 'Tailing' rule, I think none of them understood the implications for formation flying-- is it allowed for wingmen?

I think I will adopt the idea of hand signals and flares-- that's neat.

Hi Lee,

A clue to formation flying - have some aircraft take climb counters. Collisions only occur between aircraft either without climb counters or with climb counters.

Saves those embarassing moments when a player chooses the wrong manouver card and zigs into his wingman when he would have zagged!

Cheers,

Carl.

[Omegalazarus]

Are many collisions common in a 5-plane sortie?
Is this a factor of inexperience?
None of them attempted to use the 'Tailing' rule, I think none of them understood the implications for formation flying-- is it allowed for wingmen?

I think I will adopt the idea of hand signals and flares-- that's neat.

Since you are pretty new to the system, are you using the altitude rules?

If yes (using altitude), do as Carl said and have some planes with climb counters (doesn't matter how many) and some without. The ones with and without cannot hit each other.

If no (not using altitude), amend to only count planes as colliding when any part of the clear base of one touches or overlaps with the CENTER PEGS of the other plane. This is a way to reduce collisions when you don't have altitude rules to help. Overlapping planes still follow all other rules (can't shoot one another, don't block LOS to the other overlapped plane etc.).

This is a common rule and isn't "a cheat" or limited to those with minor experience in the game.

Have fun!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

This is a common rule and isn't "a cheat" or limited to those with minor experience in the game.

Have fun!

Do not worry, as Japeth says we all use the peg to edge of base at times.
Experience is no excuse either. In one of our Participation games at Triples on Saturday, I neatly side slipped into a gap to avoid two enemy aircraft. I was just complementing myself on a neat recovery when one of the other two played his first move and tight turned into the gap between us hitting us both at once.
The only upside was that I drew a zero, and his wingman went down. Don't try this at home folks, it is not to be recommended.
Rob.

[Putraack]

Yes, we're using altitude. I'll suggest the some-counters/no-counters bit.

[Пилот]

We use (a bit dirty, but useful) rule - you collide only when on (both) the same level and counter with other plane, and when central point (pegs) overlap with any part of other plane. It allows colliding, but not very often.

And, about non-verbal communication, this with half ruler distance for simple signaling sounds very fine. I believe I'm going to use it.

[Suffern]

Generally, we do not communicate/coordinate verbally during a game -- about tactics that is. The conversation is non-stop, of course. Depending on the scenario, we may or may not allow a bit of a head session before engaging. It is par for all plans to go awry upon contact with the enemy so it is a moot point. We try to limit any attempts of further coordination but I do see players trying to convey some message physically to his cohorts from time to time (very entertainingly, I might add). Those signals are made where all can see, so...

Lets think about scale for a moment. The ruler is what, 8"-10" long and converting that to scale that is 96' to 120' in actual scale. Thinking in those terms, hand signals ought to be readily seen and interpreted at half a ruler (50') and some signals could be understood at a full ruler (100') more so if the pilots are squadron mates and have worked together before. I can see arguments for using either as a limit for signaling. The bottom line is that if you limit verbal/written communication, hand signals, regardless of the range, are of limited use and seldom change the outcome.

[Пилот]

Hand-signals are fine. Few times saved me from collision, so I believe they are useful.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Hand-signals are fine. Few times saved me from collision, so I believe they are useful.

As I said before, use your Very Pistol! It not only adds excitement to the game, but in confined spaces also the fog of war:D.
NB. Make sure the venues sprinkler system is off,:eek: and never try this at home kids.
Kyte.

[Пилот]

Noooo... To late... Used pistol already... In fog one can almost lose beer :pint:

[john snelling]

All depends. If there are 3 players and if 1 player is using 2 models. I let the 2 players talk all they want. I cannnot stop the one player controlling 2 models from talking to himself.

[Пилот]

John,
That is true. But, in one player one plane situations I stand for game-connected silence (when ever possible).

[Gazerfoxie]

Oooh, I love the idea of colored cards to represent flares, and flare color interpretation is down to the mission briefing anyhow. ;3
and of course, that makes me want to build some colored 'flares' on stands that one could throw out onto the field for a phase or two..

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Was that a note bene for moi WingCo? Or just dubious use of my initials?


As I said before, use your Very Pistol! It not only adds excitement to the game, but in confined spaces also the fog of war:D.
NB. Make sure the venues sprinkler system is off,:eek: and never try this at home kids.
Kyte.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

I would allow any signalling other than talking. Hand signals, flags, or as F.O. Kyte pointed out the good old Very Pistol.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I would allow any signalling other than talking. Hand signals, flags, or as F.O. Kyte pointed out the good old Very Pistol.

No wonder my plane keeps catching fire.
Kyte.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

A veritable signal in it's own right WingCo. Who needs hands, flags or a pistol when you have one of those every game.


No wonder my plane keeps catching fire.
Kyte.

[Chris Maes]

Our group in Michigan (USA) encourages pregame planning but limits in-game tactical discussion to hand and arm gestures only, nothing verbal. It can be quite amusing:)

Chris

[fast.git]

Check out this thread about flare guns: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?18803-Flare-Gun-Signals

Naharaht has provided us with what appears to be an easily-implemented set of rules for in-game communication.