Over The Trenches , The Final Months

[tikkifriend]

Ok chaps this is the tread for the new batch of Scenarios with information ,ideas and general comments
The pilots stand as thus

. For the RFC we have
Me (Tikkifriend)
Flash
FO Kyte
Lloyd the gamer
Beer and Pretzels
Oldguy59

For the Central powers we have
Nightbomber (welcome back)
Skafloc
7eat51
MoonSlyver
Fast.git
Marechallannes

I Suggest newer players have a go at some of the earlier OTT scenarios to get upto speed with the Solo rule. You also might like to form your version of the Eagles or Bulldogs as follows.

1 Major
1 Captain
2 2nd Lts
6 FO
total 11 pilots

You will have 2 Player characters, existing ones from other games if you wish. Your NPC pilots will include 2 with ace abilities, you choose from the sticky selection in the OTT thread All planes are available subject to their time line The Squadron Jasta will have 2 seaters for recon work, piloted by one of your AI/ PC players with a un named Observer/rear Gunner.

Missions will be flown against the opposing Jasta/Squadron NPC pilots And each mission will be flown by 1 or more of your PC pilots Details of how your opponents will be chosen will be revealed later:p

Well there you go Oh by the way everyone gets to create a mission if they want to I anticipate the first misson if everyone is up to speed to be posted on 24/2 for commencement 1/3.

Tally Ho chaps

Paul

[fast.git]

Well there you go Oh by the way everyone gets to create a mission if they want to I anticipate the first misson if everyone is up to speed to be posted on 24/2 for commencement 1/3.

Very cool. And, just to get it right, we're talking the end of Feb... beginning of March, right?

Forgive me, I'm a Yank. ;)

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Excellent work, can't wait to get to grips. Would love to have a go at the missions.

[tikkifriend]

Very cool. And, just to get it right, we're talking the end of Feb... beginning of March, right?

Forgive me, I'm a Yank. ;)

Forgiven Forgot you dont do the day month format :) So its 24th Feb posting 1st March start date
Paul

[MoonSylver]

Very cool. Thanks for the summary. I have to read back through some of the OtT stickies to refresh me memory, so I'm glad to have some time yet. :) :thumbsup:

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Whats the order for players to post missions they have designed?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Please remember that the flight under Captain Hawkwood flies against unnamed opponents and not any of the Eagles.
It might be an idea to ascribe a unit of two seaters to share Bentangles Airfield with the 52 Sq. (Bulldogs) so as to have the luxury of being able to fly with them when needed without compromising the historical fact that the British did not have mixed Scout and two seater Squadrons. Also to add a little more variety to the story line. ie. Friendly rivalry between the two units etc.
somewhat similar to my use of Nigel in the last scenario.
Rob.

[flash]

Aww - I'd hoped we would go the route of having less pilots who could all be PC & flying against the named reservestaffeln/squadron pilots - flying against eachother is fine until people start dropping out, as they did in the current campaign, then it all gets a bit lopsided - hence the reservestaffeln in the first place to give us something to shoot at ! At least you'd lose your pilots in games you'd actually played in (that was Jans issue).
I'd suggest 3-4 scout pilots & a pair of 2 seater crews (who can nominally be from another squadron/Jasta co-located with the scouts) would be enough - the 'Reserve' enemy pilots already exist & are chafing atthe bit for action !
What do you think chaps ? :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Seems to solve all my quibbles.
Rob.

[tikkifriend]

Whats the order for players to post missions they have designed?
I suggest the following
FO Kyte ,Skafloc ,Lloydthegamer,7eat51,Flash,Moonsylver, Tikkifriend,Fastgit,Oldguy59,Marechallannes,Beer and Pretzels, Nightbomber

If this does not suit suggestions welcome.;)
Paul

[7eat51]

Hello Everyone,

I am really looking forward to this and playing with all of you. As this will be my first time playing anything like this (only played one-on-one planes with a friend), I cannot imagine how much I will learn and how fun this will be. Paul, thank you for putting this together and for providing suggestions and time to come up to speed.

If it doesn't betray too much info, may I ask for suggestions concerning how to put together the plane selections - how many of what type? I am playing with the Central Powers. I want to ensure I have what is needed.

Looking forward to an awesome time with you,
Eric

[tikkifriend]

Aww - I'd hoped we would go the route of having less pilots who could all be PC & flying against the named reservestaffeln/squadron pilots - flying against eachother is fine until people start dropping out, as they did in the current campaign, then it all gets a bit lopsided - hence the reservestaffeln in the first place to give us something to shoot at ! At least you'd lose your pilots in games you'd actually played in (that was Jans issue).
I'd suggest 3-4 scout pilots & a pair of 2 seater crews (who can nominally be from another squadron/Jasta co-located with the scouts) would be enough - the 'Reserve' enemy pilots already exist & are chafing atthe bit for action !
What do you think chaps ? :)

Ok lets have 4 PC players per person, either pre existing or new ones with 2 of them having an ace ability All in favour say Yar
Paul

[tikkifriend]

Hello Everyone,

I am really looking forward to this and playing with all of you. As this will be my first time playing anything like this (only played one-on-one planes with a friend), I cannot imagine how much I will learn and how fun this will be. Paul, thank you for putting this together and for providing suggestions and time to come up to speed.

If it doesn't betray too much info, may I ask for suggestions concerning how to put together the plane selections - how many of what type? I am playing with the Central Powers. I want to ensure I have what is needed.

Looking forward to an awesome time with you,
Eric

A general pool of DR1, Alb V and Pfalz is a good start, If you have a Roland or 2 they pack a good punch You can basically use whatever you have model wise as long it is in the timeline which for the start of the scenarios is Feb 1918 The RFC will follow the same lines , Camels,Spads and SE5a. As time moves on you can introduce the DRVII and Snipes, Tripes start appearing. Remember the Squadrons and Jasta are as fictional as you want them so colour schemes for individual planes can be at your discretion

Enjoy Paul

[Marechallannes]

If it doesn't betray too much info, may I ask for suggestions concerning how to put together the plane selections - how many of what type? I am playing with the Central Powers. I want to ensure I have what is needed.

Looking forward to an awesome time with you,
Eric

Take the planes you like, Eric.

For the actual OTT Campaign I choosed Sopwith Camels for my pilots because I like the model and the maneuver deck.

I'm not shure for late war Central Powers at the moment - to choose Fokker Dr.Is or D.VIIs.

Rolands and Albatros D.III aren't options for me. If you prefer slower movement, fire power and sturdieness, choss the Pflaz planes.



If I play the campaign only with cards I'll have more options.

[MoonSylver]

Aww - I'd hoped we would go the route of having less pilots who could all be PC & flying against the named reservestaffeln/squadron pilots - flying against eachother is fine until people start dropping out, as they did in the current campaign, then it all gets a bit lopsided - hence the reservestaffeln in the first place to give us something to shoot at ! At least you'd lose your pilots in games you'd actually played in (that was Jans issue).
I'd suggest 3-4 scout pilots & a pair of 2 seater crews (who can nominally be from another squadron/Jasta co-located with the scouts) would be enough - the 'Reserve' enemy pilots already exist & are chafing atthe bit for action !
What do you think chaps ? :)

Yeah, from what I understood you guys had been playing PC vs NPC pilots, which I personally think is the way to go. :thumbs


I suggest the following
FO Kyte ,Skafloc ,Lloydthegamer,7eat51,Flash,Moonsylver, Tikkifriend,Fastgit,Oldguy59,Marechallannes,Beer and Pretzels, Nightbomber

If this does not suit suggestions welcome.;)
Paul

I'm good with any order you guys wish. :)


A general pool of DR1, Alb V and Pfalz is a good start, If you have a Roland or 2 they pack a good punch You can basically use whatever you have model wise as long it is in the timeline which for the start of the scenarios is Feb 1918 The RFC will follow the same lines , Camels,Spads and SE5a. As time moves on you can introduce the DRVII and Snipes, Tripes start appearing. Remember the Squadrons and Jasta are as fictional as you want them so colour schemes for individual planes can be at your discretion

Enjoy Paul

I'll be flying Albatros D.V's & Fokker DR.1's, as those are the only models I have, unless I can get some paper models ready in time, or I mix n' match some cards (or even fly all cards). :)

[flash]

I suggest the following
FO Kyte ,Skafloc ,Lloydthegamer,7eat51,Flash,Moonsylver, Tikkifriend,Fastgit,Oldguy59,Marechallannes,Beer and Pretzels, Nightbomber
If this does not suit suggestions welcome.;)
Paul

As I have done/am doing two of the last three missions can I be at the end of this list please Paul !!

As for pilots 4 PC scout pilots & 2 pilots plus 2 observers for 2 seaters (ie a total of 8 is what I'm suggesting so we can bomb & gun!)

And rather than jumping straight in with Fokker D.VII, Sopwith Snipes & other exotic types can we please introduce them within the correct timeline of the game? (If we can agree when that will be - although there is an opportunity to play it "realtime" but that would make for a short campaign?! )

That way we can start gently and get the boys up to speed before the butchery starts !! ;)

ps I will carry the kills over for those chaps continuing the fray ..

And can we ditch that god awful 'always coming home' ace ability now ?!

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Are we going to have a campaign pre-amble? ie a written lead in, setting the scene and a brief summary of what has happened before (missions1-16).
Scenario's could be loosely designed around this and would fit in rather than just be one offs tagged into a campaign setting.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

What about Linkerwinkel for the German airfield?:thumbsup:

:thankyou::fokker: Neil

[Flying Officer Kyte]

As I wrote the current mission I would also like a bit of time to work on the next one.
My pilots will fly SE5as and where two seaters are needed Bristol FE2bs. Kytes personal aircraft will be his Camel if he ever gets permission from "Boom" to fly again.
One other thing that needs sorting is medals for past exploits in line with the type of practice that the various countries employed. Some of the pilots are well up for them by now. I am also going to premote a couple of my chaps but that will come within the choice of the various ranks on offer when we start. Aces who have abilities should be able to carry those forward for the sake of continuity.
Rob.

[tikkifriend]

As I wrote the current mission I would also like a bit of time to work on the next one.
My pilots will fly SE5as and where two seaters are needed Bristol FE2bs. Kytes personal aircraft will be his Camel if he ever gets permission from "Boom" to fly again.
One other thing that needs sorting is medals for past exploits in line with the type of practice that the various countries employed. Some of the pilots are well up for them by now. I am also going to premote a couple of my chaps but that will come within the choice of the various ranks on offer when we start. Aces who have abilities should be able to carry those forward for the sake of continuity.
Rob.

By all means Gongs are good
Paul

[tikkifriend]

As I have done/am doing two of the last three missions can I be at the end of this list please Paul !!

As for pilots 4 PC scout pilots & 2 pilots plus 2 observers for 2 seaters (ie a total of 8 is what I'm suggesting so we can bomb & gun!)

And rather than jumping straight in with Fokker D.VII, Sopwith Snipes & other exotic types can we please introduce them within the correct timeline of the game? (If we can agree when that will be - although there is an opportunity to play it "realtime" but that would make for a short campaign?! )

That way we can start gently and get the boys up to speed before the butchery starts !! ;)

ps I will carry the kills over for those chaps continuing the fray ..

And can we ditch that god awful 'always coming home' ace ability now ?!

Ok Dave back to the end of the Q
Total of 8 is good if all agree.
All planes are time lined with perhaps the possibility of late end scenarios bringing them in a month or 2 earlier
and yes ditch the "get out of jail card free ability" nobody is that good (except Steve Mc Queen and he never made it either)
Paul

[tikkifriend]

As I wrote the current mission I would also like a bit of time to work on the next one.
My pilots will fly SE5as and where two seaters are needed Bristol FE2bs. Kytes personal aircraft will be his Camel if he ever gets permission from "Boom" to fly again.
One other thing that needs sorting is medals for past exploits in line with the type of practice that the various countries employed. Some of the pilots are well up for them by now. I am also going to premote a couple of my chaps but that will come within the choice of the various ranks on offer when we start. Aces who have abilities should be able to carry those forward for the sake of continuity.
Rob.

want to take my place?
Paul

[Flying Officer Kyte]

want to take my place?
Paul

That will be fine thanks.
Rob.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Rob are you running the Over The Trenches , The Final Months campaign now?

[Lloydthegamer]

I think I'd like to use Dolphins. I have a couple of models and they use the same deck as the Se5a.
Take the planes you like, Eric.

For the actual OTT Campaign I choosed Sopwith Camels for my pilots because I like the model and the maneuver deck.

I'm not shure for late war Central Powers at the moment - to choose Fokker Dr.Is or D.VIIs.

Rolands and Albatros D.III aren't options for me. If you prefer slower movement, fire power and sturdieness, choss the Pflaz planes.



If I play the campaign only with cards I'll have more options.

[7eat51]

Greetings Paul,

If possible, may I be pushed back one or two - post mission in June or July? May is the end of our semester, and I am usually swamped at that time. If this causes any inconvenience, I will stay with May.

Thanks,
Eric


I suggest the following
FO Kyte ,Skafloc ,Lloydthegamer,7eat51,Flash,Moonsylver, Tikkifriend,Fastgit,Oldguy59,Marechallannes,Beer and Pretzels, Nightbomber

If this does not suit suggestions welcome.;)
Paul

[Marechallannes]

Rob are you running the Over The Trenches , The Final Months campaign now?

It's about the time - when he will design his mission.






When does the late war campaign start?

APRIL 1918?

This will allow UFAG C.I, Siemens Schuckert D.III & Handley Page O/400. The Fokker D.VII will come a mont later: Mai 1918.

[tikkifriend]

How does this line up feel


Tikkifriend ,Skafloc ,Lloydthegame,Moonsylver, FO Kyte,Fastgit,Oldguy59,Marechallannes,7eat51,Beer and Pretzels, Nightbomber,Flash

Paul

[tikkifriend]

It's about the time - when he will design his mission.


April 1918 it is then I will date my mission 5th April 1918



When does the late war campaign start?

APRIL 1918?

This will allow UFAG C.I, Siemens Schuckert D.III & Handley Page O/400. The Fokker D.VII will come a mont later: Mai 1918.

Ok 5th April 1918 is the first mission from me.
Paul

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Fine with me then.
Rob.

[7eat51]

Thank you for accommodating.

[flash]

Right you 'orrible lot -
73405

This should give me enough time to get all the details on the spreadsheet so, in your own time please pm me your pilots details
Names & Ranks of:
4 Scout Pilots -
2 Two-seater Pilots & their crewman

preferably in that order ! :hmm:

If you're not sure about ranks then I can assign that for you - my highest ranked pilot is Lt & the lowest rank is Sgt (observer) if that gives you a clue !

Old hands let me know if you are 'playing through' with your pilots & I will pick up their details from the previous sheet + their kills tally ;)

And if you American chappies don't understand the relevance of the picture here is your equivalent ! ;)

73414

[Marechallannes]

Sven's Late-War-Eagles:

Scouts:

Rittmeister Wilhelm Schneider (Acrobatic Pilot I)
Oberleutnant Adam Rosenzweig (Lucky Git I)
Leutnant Erwin Munk
Leutnant Hektor von Fischbach

Two-seaters:

Oberleutnant Siegfried Müller / Leutnant Richard Wegfeld*
Leutnant Stephan Winter / Feldwebel Heribert Grötsch

*Artilleriebeobachter / artillery spotter

[Baldrick62]

the British did not have mixed Scout and two seater Squadrons

Not quite so exclusive a statement, although I'm talking about Palestine rather than the Western Front, but 67 Sqn RFC (later 1 Sqn AFC) operated combinations of single-seat scouts and two-seat observation aircraft, and then two-seat fighters and 4-seat heavy bombers:
1916 - Bristol Scouts and BE2s
1917 - BE2s and BE12s
1918 - F2Bs and HP 0/400s
with Martinsyde G.100/102s and RE8s thrown in for good measure in 17/18.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Scouts:

Robs Late-War-Bulldogs:


C.O. Major Frederic Kyte M.C. DSO. (Ace ability Marksman.)*
Lt. Roderick ( Ginger) Hawkwood. MC. ( Ace ability Marksman* and acrobatic pilot.)

Cpt. John Perry. (Ace ability Lucky pilot)
F.O. David (Di) Evans.



Two-seaters:

Lt. Nigel Bouncer-Smythe./ Observer Sgt. Bruce (Chips) Woodhead.
Sgt. Frank (Snowy) Winter./ Observer Cpl. Joe (Dodger) Dodgeson.

* I believe in the new rules this has been superceeded by "Sniper"

PLAYING THROUGH.
Rob.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Neil's Late-War-Eagles:

Scouts: :salute:

Leutnant Karl Bolle (playing through)
leutnant Erwin Bohme (playing through)
Leutnant Herman Vallendor (playing through)
Leutnant Richard Plange (playing through)

Two-seaters: :thumbsup:

leutnant Jacob Hasenhirn (new ace ability to follow)/ Felwdwebel Ernst Boreman (playing through)
Leutnant Willhelm 'Willy' Schnitzel (new ace ability to follow) / Leutnant Otto Bumsen

:fokker: Neil

[Marechallannes]

Leutnant Otto Bumsen

I wonder where you found this last name...

;)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I wonder where you found this last name...

;)

Must have got it off the back burner!
Rob.

[flash]

And I wonder, ladies,

73539



which part of PM me your pilots details didn't you understand !! :lol:

All added now - 'Lovely Boys' ;)

[gully_raker]

[QUOTE=flash;195407]Right you 'orrible lot -
73405


SO THATS WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE FLASH.:eek:

Now I am scared!:surrender: :cheezy:

[Flying Officer Kyte]

And I wonder, ladies,

73539



which part of PM me your pilots details didn't you understand !! :lol:

All added now - 'Lovely Boys' ;)

:eek:Just the PM bit, honest Steve.
Rob.

[flash]

Steve ?!!!! Step away from the Gin bottle... :lol:

[flash]

[QUOTE=flash;195407]Right you 'orrible lot - SO THATS WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE FLASH.:eek:
Now I am scared!:surrender: :cheezy:

YOUuuuuu.....

73598

Wrong colour beret but I've had my moments !! ;)

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

I wonder where you found this last name...

;)

That would be telling...perhaps the umteen years spent serving in Germany..namely Minden and Celle. Enjoying the local night life..:pint:.well not Celle I was married then. Visiting the many wargames clubs..:drinks:...there was an aweful lot of BAWG clubs then. Great shows in Rheindhalen (more :drinks:), Hohne (even more :drinks:), Minden (really getting :drunk:), Gutersloh (fantastic show, best of the lot :thumbsup:) to name but a few.

:fokker: Neil

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Must have got it off the back burner!
Rob.

Nah a wee bit off there Rob. I'll tell you at WMMS......:thumbsup:

:fokker: Neil

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

[QUOTE=gully_raker;195818]

YOUuuuuu.....

73598

Wrong colour beret but I've had my moments !! ;)

They was only Gunner's mate...well long range snipers..:guns:..can't beat the old grunts! :thumbsup:

:fokker: Neil

[tikkifriend]

Originally Posted by tikkifriend
Ok I have the following

FO Jonty Grisham 5 kills Ace dedicated Ground crew
FO Ron Curtis 8 kills Ace Acro pilot 1
2nd Lt. Peter Hibbet(Ace, Ability: Dedicated Ground Crew I) *2 Kills*
Cpt. Tim Hall *1 Kill*


2 seaters
2nd Lt. Pip Raleigh /FO Mike Bates
Cpt Oliver Stokes / 19b). Lt Philip Ward
All These guys are carry overs from the current OTT

Paul

[Nightbomber]

I am late to the party because of the winter holidays, but will surely set up my Jasta gang very soon. The scouts will be all Dr.I. and/or D.V. ;) painted in OSA scheme (see my post with my Jasta members).

[flash]

Think you can fly what you please as long as it's in the timeline Andrzej - I shall be deleting the assigned aircraft column from the spreadsheet, if there are no reasonable objections, as it is superfluous in this campaign. :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Think you can fly what you please as long as it's in the timeline Andrzej - I shall be deleting the assigned aircraft column from the spreadsheet, if there are no reasonable objections, as it is superfluous in this campaign. :)

Might get the old Dolph out for another spin in that case.
Rob.

[flash]

By playing this way - whilst maybe not accurate - at least we can get to sortie in different types & use our inventory ! ;)

[flash]

I have taken the liberty of updating the Ace Abilities sticky by adding alongside the name what they mean (taken from the cards), hopefully this will help us all as well as the new chaps :)
You will see that I have deleted a couple - Always Coming Home & the Technical abilities as they refer to looking at damage cards. ... we are playing solo after all !.. and added Quick Shot II which might be advantageous.

I have not put in the Chivalrous Aptitude details yet as I would suggest that this too is removed - the detail about it is in the sticky if you wish to remind yourselves - I find this a bit too much personally, messing about with the explosion card and not causing a fire, but to balance that you get two ace abilities which, if selected properly, could allow you to cause extra damage or make you nearly impervious to damage !
You may share my view as the only two persons to use it were Jan, who left the campaign, and Jon (steel_ratt) who is also MIA.

Please let me know your thoughts chaps - I will of course go with the consensus :salute:

[Nightbomber]

Sitting by a fire place after power skiing, fresh minded, I finally have some time to write:)

Let me share some ideas for the upcoming campaign.
My intention is to tweak the rules mainly to get a more historical feel.
1) Why not use only official Ace abilities? And of course ditch the always coming home ability for sake of reality even if you want to continent using the house rule abilities.
2) 4 fighter PC pilots plus 4 for 2 seaters is a good rule.
3) I am all for using new characters only. We start with new members that would suffer from the lack of experienced pilots (and personally - my PCs were killed or invalided as well;)) However I can understand those who want to continue with old veterans and aces.
4) I remember some of the previous prolonged missions lasting quite long and resulting sometimes in quite unrealitic kill ratio and think we should try to get closer to historical conditions. Why not adopt a fine KotA campaign rule of limited ammo? I wonder what you think about that. 8 cards to each plane plus a commonly deck for close distance shots (second damage card)? That would force the pilots to break the fight and return home.
5) Escape rule. What about a rule that would force enemies to head straight for home if their planes are heavily damaged (10+ damage points) or on fire? Again some realistic option.
6) Collisions. Let's decided this rule once for the whole new campaign.

[MoonSylver]

Good observations as always Andrzej. I have no strong opinion either way & am content to let the others decide on most, baring the following:

#3 - As a "new guy" I am ok either way. I don't mind if you guys play through. You've earned the right to. :salute:

#5 - I was reading the OtT rules yesterday: Isn't there already a provision in there for that?

[fast.git]

Sitting by a fire place after power skiing, fresh minded, I finally have some time to write:)

Let me share some ideas for the upcoming campaign.
My intention is to tweak the rules mainly to get a more historical feel.
1) Why not use only official Ace abilities? And of course ditch the always coming home ability for sake of reality even if you want to continent using the house rule abilities.
2) 4 fighter PC pilots plus 4 for 2 seaters is a good rule.
3) I am all for using new characters only. We start with new members that would suffer from the lack of experienced pilots (and personally - my PCs were killed or invalided as well;)) However I can understand those who want to continue with old veterans and aces.
4) I remember some of the previous prolonged missions lasting quite long and resulting sometimes in quite unrealitic kill ratio and think we should try to get closer to historical conditions. Why not adopt a fine KotA campaign rule of limited ammo? I wonder what you think about that. 8 cards to each plane plus a commonly deck for close distance shots (second damage card)? That would force the pilots to break the fight and return home.
5) Escape rule. What about a rule that would force enemies to head straight for home if their planes are heavily damaged (10+ damage points) or on fire? Again some realistic option.
6) Collisions. Let's decided this rule once for the whole new campaign.

I agree with Andrej on most points... especially the ace, ammo, escape, and collision suggestions.

Ironically enough, despite the fact that I'm one of the "new" folks around here, I don't have as much of a problem with some pilots carrying over from the previous campaign. It will put the newer pilots at a disadvantage... but war is hell.

Locally, we try to play play our AI opponents with an emphasis on the "I" (of course, I'm assuming that my "I" is sufficient to decide the proper course of action!). ;) As such, I've been toying with a (perhaps overly-complex) rule concerning AI pilots and the criteria for breaking off from the engagement. Each pilot a morale score based on their experience level (Novice/Experienced/Ace) that would be modified based on present circumstances (outnumbered, +50% damage, engine damage, wounded, fire, out of ammo, etc.). Each of the modifiers adds to the morale score over which the AI must roll (2d6) to stay engaged. I don't have the exact modifiers figured yet, but I was thinking a roll would be required when hit for damage or when an allied plane went down.

[tikkifriend]

Sitting by a fire place after power skiing, fresh minded, I finally have some time to write:)

Let me share some ideas for the upcoming campaign.
My intention is to tweak the rules mainly to get a more historical feel.
1) Why not use only official Ace abilities? And of course ditch the always coming home ability for sake of reality even if you want to continent using the house rule abilities.
2) 4 fighter PC pilots plus 4 for 2 seaters is a good rule.
3) I am all for using new characters only. We start with new members that would suffer from the lack of experienced pilots (and personally - my PCs were killed or invalided as well;)) However I can understand those who want to continue with old veterans and aces.
4) I remember some of the previous prolonged missions lasting quite long and resulting sometimes in quite unrealitic kill ratio and think we should try to get closer to historical conditions. Why not adopt a fine KotA campaign rule of limited ammo? I wonder what you think about that. 8 cards to each plane plus a commonly deck for close distance shots (second damage card)? That would force the pilots to break the fight and return home.
5) Escape rule. What about a rule that would force enemies to head straight for home if their planes are heavily damaged (10+ damage points) or on fire? Again some realistic option.
6) Collisions. Let's decided this rule once for the whole new campaign.

Ok As for escape/ evade I would suggest that after 10pt damage a d6 is roled each turn 1-4 continue the fight 5-6 bug out. With 12pts the die role goes 1-3 continues 4-6 bugs out
With 13+ the die goes 1-2 stays 3-6 bugs out .

I suggest a similar system for wounded NPC pilots and AI. Each turn D6 1-3 stays and fights 4-6 returns home. If the character is an ace adjust the die to 1-4 stays 5-6 bugs out

As for the ammo rule a serie of 5 or so 0pts cards can kill a game and it does happen How about 10 card per plane plus the close range cards not included in the 10.
If an XP card is drawn I would suggest using the Critical hit card deck (see files ) as a final decider

Totally agree with ditching the always comes home ability. :thumbsup:

Collisions do need sorting out , both definition, as we normally dont use alt rules and in the damage caused (C or D or 2A cards)

Other than that I would like to bring my Band of Brothers from the last Scenarios with me. they have earned it an like you I have had my fair share of PC losses inthe 15 missions (3 so far)

Open to the Forum for comments.

Ps I will be looking to have a definative set of rule changes ; pilots ; reserve list;etc by the 23rd Feb so we all start on the same footing

Paul :)

[flash]

Sitting by a fire place after power skiing, fresh minded, I finally have some time to write:)
Let me share some ideas for the upcoming campaign.
My intention is to tweak the rules mainly to get a more historical feel.
1) Why not use only official Ace abilities? And of course ditch the always coming home ability for sake of reality even if you want to continent using the house rule abilities.
2) 4 fighter PC pilots plus 4 for 2 seaters is a good rule.
3) I am all for using new characters only. We start with new members that would suffer from the lack of experienced pilots (and personally - my PCs were killed or invalided as well;)) However I can understand those who want to continue with old veterans and aces.
4) I remember some of the previous prolonged missions lasting quite long and resulting sometimes in quite unrealitic kill ratio and think we should try to get closer to historical conditions. Why not adopt a fine KotA campaign rule of limited ammo? I wonder what you think about that. 8 cards to each plane plus a commonly deck for close distance shots (second damage card)? That would force the pilots to break the fight and return home.
5) Escape rule. What about a rule that would force enemies to head straight for home if their planes are heavily damaged (10+ damage points) or on fire? Again some realistic option.
6) Collisions. Let's decided this rule once for the whole new campaign.

Wish you'd written this before I'd updated the sticky ! :p
1. Can you clarify the Ace Ability rules you mean & the source document? You may be looking at WoG RAP which I don't have & I want to be sure of what abilities you're suggesting. I have in Balloon Busters: Acrobatic pilot; Bullet Checker; Daredevil; Good in evading & Perfect Aim which would be sufficient but the house rules set we have been using is not too much more of an expansion on those & gives a second tier should you ace again. I would be happy either way.
2. I agree with the numbers !
3. Carrying over the pilots - Not fussed either way - but thought it was always our intention & I have less to lose than others.
4. I'm not doing limited ammo, that's more management than I want to be doing.
5. Take it you mean forcing the AI to bug out - I adopted the within 5 pt/wounded rule, happy to expand it to fire if aircraft at severe risk.
6. Collisions - didn't know this was an issue - I play it as: if the base would overlap the peg (ie the base cannot be placed correctly because of the peg) then a collision has occurred. Simples. If you want to discount collisions or play it differently please specify.
:thankyou: ;)

[Marechallannes]

I have taken the liberty of updating the Ace Abilities sticky by adding alongside the name what they mean (taken from the cards), hopefully this will help us all as well as the new chaps :)
You will see that I have deleted a couple - Always Coming Home & the Technical abilities as they refer to looking at damage cards. ... we are playing solo after all !.. and added Quick Shot II which might be advantageous.

I have not put in the Chivalrous Aptitude details yet as I would suggest that this too is removed - the detail about it is in the sticky if you wish to remind yourselves - I find this a bit too much personally, messing about with the explosion card and not causing a fire, but to balance that you get two ace abilities which, if selected properly, could allow you to cause extra damage or make you nearly impervious to damage !
You may share my view as the only two persons to use it were Jan, who left the campaign, and Jon (steel_ratt) who is also MIA.

Please let me know your thoughts chaps - I will of course go with the consensus :salute:

I agree 100% Flash.

Will you add an upgarde at the ace ability thread?

Personally I (meanwhile) ignore collisions for the 2D Solo missions. Had a few missions where the AI planes collided with the very first maneuver.

[flash]

I have updated Blackronins first post in that thread - I will update the chivalrous aptitude if we get a concensus & maybe add a new sticky if we change it entirely !! ;)
Ooh 3000th post - to the Bar !

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Sitting by a fire place after power skiing, fresh minded, I finally have some time to write:)

Let me share some ideas for the upcoming campaign.
My intention is to tweak the rules mainly to get a more historical feel.
1) Why not use only official Ace abilities? And of course ditch the always coming home ability for sake of reality even if you want to continent using the house rule abilities.
2) 4 fighter PC pilots plus 4 for 2 seaters is a good rule.
3) I am all for using new characters only. We start with new members that would suffer from the lack of experienced pilots (and personally - my PCs were killed or invalided as well;)) However I can understand those who want to continue with old veterans and aces.
4) I remember some of the previous prolonged missions lasting quite long and resulting sometimes in quite unrealitic kill ratio and think we should try to get closer to historical conditions. Why not adopt a fine KotA campaign rule of limited ammo? I wonder what you think about that. 8 cards to each plane plus a commonly deck for close distance shots (second damage card)? That would force the pilots to break the fight and return home.
5) Escape rule. What about a rule that would force enemies to head straight for home if their planes are heavily damaged (10+ damage points) or on fire? Again some realistic option.
6) Collisions. Let's decided this rule once for the whole new campaign.

In answer to your points Andrzej.
1. Is undoubtedly the way to go now that we have seen the problems that modified abilities throws up.
2. No problem with that.
3. My sticking point. I always envisaged going on to the end of the war with my characters. As such I have built up a Flight with personalized aircraft and back stories as you know. I therefore have no intention of abandoning them or their traits and abilities.
4. limit ammo, but allow both guns in two seaters to have their own supply. A and B if that is what was normal for that aircraft.
5. When a plane only has 20% of its points left it tries to break for home. Both sides should obey this rule. Should not attack whilst on fire, but as you can elliminate fire, the 20% rule should cover it.
6. For collisions, overlapping the central peg of your opponent should do it.
In addition I would like to see my rule for AI altitude taken up by the rest of the players, but that is up to you to decide.
Rob.

[fast.git]

In addition I would like to see my rule for AI altitude taken up by the rest of the players, but that is up to you to decide.
Rob.

Are you referring to the AI doing what they can to maintain their altitude advantage? If not, then to what do you refer?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Are you referring to the AI doing what they can to maintain their altitude advantage? If not, then to what do you refer?

More or less, but same height as the opponent so as to get the chance to hit at long range and get the two cards at short range, plus the blind spot bonus when attacking two seaters.
Rob.

[fast.git]

More or less, but same height as the opponent so as to get the chance to hit at long range and get the two cards at short range, plus the blind spot bonus when attacking two seaters.
Rob.
I'm in favor of the AI pilots choosing the most advantageous position possible... replacing straights with climbs and/or dives as appropriate, etc.

[Watchdog]

Just a note about using the UFAG C.I.

It is an Austro-Hungarian design and I cannot find any information confirming that it was used outside the Austro-Hungarian units on the Italian front. ;)

[fast.git]

Just a note about using the UFAG C.I.

It is an Austro-Hungarian design and I cannot find any information confirming that it was used outside the Austro-Hungarian units on the Italian front. ;)

A shame, too... the UFAG C.I is a pretty sweet ride.

[Watchdog]

A shame, too... the UFAG C.I is a pretty sweet ride.

Wait till we have Aviatik Berg D.I's, Phönix D.I/II's, Brisfits and SPAD VII's, then we can run a proper 1918 solo campaign on the Italian front.;)

[flash]

A shame, too... the UFAG C.I is a pretty sweet ride.

There you go Chris - a scenario where the UFAG is brought to the western front to show solidarity & a new type to be taken on / protected ! ;)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I'm in favor of the AI pilots choosing the most advantageous position possible... replacing straights with climbs and/or dives as appropriate, etc.

:thumbsup:Exactly so Chris.
Rob.

[gully_raker]

;) *********************Snipped*************************************************

You may share my view as the only two persons to use it were Jan, who left the campaign, and Jon (steel_ratt) who is also MIA.

Please let me know your thoughts chaps - I will of course go with the consensus :salute:

Hi Flash! Jon (steel-rat) is over here in Oz (see Cancon Reports) & will not be returning to Canada for another month or so. Dont know if he will participate from here. He is pretty active already playing at the Canberra Games Club as well as Cancon.:thumbsup:

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Like this, plus some scenarios could have a turn limit (instead of keeping a track of fuel).


In answer to your points Andrzej.
1. Is undoubtedly the way to go now that we have seen the problems that modified abilities throws up.
2. No problem with that.
3. My sticking point. I always envisaged going on to the end of the war with my characters. As such I have built up a Flight with personalized aircraft and back stories as you know. I therefore have no intention of abandoning them or their traits and abilities.
4. limit ammo, but allow both guns in two seaters to have their own supply. A and B if that is what was normal for that aircraft.
5. When a plane only has 20% of its points left it tries to break for home. Both sides should obey this rule. Should not attack whilst on fire, but as you can elliminate fire, the 20% rule should cover it.
6. For collisions, overlapping the central peg of your opponent should do it.
In addition I would like to see my rule for AI altitude taken up by the rest of the players, but that is up to you to decide.
Rob.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

But before we start the campaign proper could we clarify rule changes and produce the rules in full with all changes incorporated in them. Makes it easier than trying to follow a thread(s) and picking out what is a change and what is just points for discussion.... cheers.

[OldGuy59]

My Contribution to the Entente:
My Pilots/Crews:
William Gordon Claxton pilot – RFC SE.5a fighter pilot March1918
Alexander MacDonald "Shaker" Shook pilot – RNAS responsible for the Sopwith Camel's first victory of the war on 5 June 1917
Conway MacAllister Gray Farrell pilot – RFC SE.5a fighter pilot 11 March 1918
Harold A. “Wrench” Farr mechanic, later pilot – CAC/RNAS Sopwith Camel
Ernest Lloyd "Conman" Janney pilot - CAC /William F. N. Sharpe observer/pilot - CAC
Henry John Lawrence "Nap" Botterell pilot – RNAS spring of 1918 /Claude Ferdinand Gregoire "Chasser" Doran observer - RFC

I have histories for these, as they are picked from history, Sharpe was killed in a training accident before reaching the front.

....But I don't know the Campaign rules or the ace abilities so, I'm gonna let the experts sort that out... Mike :)

[Nightbomber]

I promise to answer the questions soon chaps, for now I have a limited internet access here. I agree with Rob about carrying on with carreers and Dave on his comments. The points were just to start a possible discussions, no pressure to change the current set of rules in anyway. If you find the existing rules satysfying, no problem at all for me. As others did, I will post my Jasta Abteilung of freshmen here as well. Sorry Dave :takecover:

[flash]

My Contribution to the Entente:
My Pilots/Crews:
William Gordon Claxton pilot – RFC SE.5a fighter pilot March1918
Alexander MacDonald "Shaker" Shook pilot – RNAS responsible for the Sopwith Camel's first victory of the war on 5 June 1917
Conway MacAllister Gray Farrell pilot – RFC SE.5a fighter pilot 11 March 1918
Harold A. “Wrench” Farr mechanic, later pilot – CAC/RNAS Sopwith Camel
Ernest Lloyd "Conman" Janney pilot - CAC /William F. N. Sharpe observer/pilot - CAC
Henry John Lawrence "Nap" Botterell pilot – RNAS spring of 1918 /Claude Ferdinand Gregoire "Chasser" Doran observer - RFC

I have histories for these, as they are picked from history, Sharpe was killed in a training accident before reaching the front.

....But I don't know the Campaign rules or the ace abilities so, I'm gonna let the experts sort that out... Mike :)

Apologies Mike - I butchered your post in error - thought I was replying to it - too tired after a day out. Doh !

Anyway, here is what I wanted to tell you: The ace abilities currently in use are shown here (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?9191-Ace-Abilities-for-the-Over-the-Trenches-Campaign) Mike.

[flash]

But before we start the campaign proper could we clarify rule changes and produce the rules in full with all changes incorporated in them. Makes it easier than trying to follow a thread(s) and picking out what is a change and what is just points for discussion.... cheers.

I quite agree Neil, think we need to make some decisions, or, vote on the issues being discussed & go with the consensus (Still won't limit my ammo though !) then post the results in a Sticky ;)

[MoonSylver]

Yeah, FWIW I can't say I'm a big fan of limited ammo either. One more thing to keep track of. If session length is an issue, maybe a turn limit, a time limit in real time (2 hrs to complete this mission for example) or something.

[flash]

Have been toying with the spread sheet - started with the Bulldogs - I have added kills from the previous campaign & fixed it so every player can see his pilots individual & his flights combined kills, AND I have also been able to show this campaign & the total kills as separate tallies so you should all be able to follow how well your pilots are doing in this campaign as well as across both campaigns for those playing through.
It is a work in progress & I will get both the pages done as soon as I can. ;) :pint:

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Could we have a poll/vote on the rules please:

1. A vote for keeping the rules without amendments YES/NO.

If the no's out number the yes vote:

2. A vote on which amendments or additions to the rules to be included a simple YES/NO by all playing.

Once that is done the rules will be published and they are what we play with from game 1.

(Of course no rule can be set in concrete and some amendments/additions may need revising if they become unworkable or just need refining)

Neil

[flash]

1. An emphatic NO from me ! ;)

2. We have plenty of time - Quoting Paul "I will be looking to have a definitive set of rule changes ; pilots ; reserve list;etc by the 23rd Feb so we all start on the same footing" :slysmile:

Now can anyone help me with 12 German names for observers & 12 Allied names for observers - I'm trying to build the Jasta/Squadron so that we each have named opponents to chew through. ta muchly ! :)

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Here's a few, hope it helps:

Wolff, Kurt

Frommherz, Hermann

Osterkamp, Theodor

Billik, Paul

Sachsenberg, Gotthard

Allmenroeder (Allmenröder), Karl

Degelow, Carl

Mai, Josef

Neckel, Ulrich

Schaefer (Schäfer), Karl Emil

Auffarth (Auffahrt), Harald

Blume, Walter

[tikkifriend]

how about ( and add your own ranks as you see fit)
Harry Hughs
Peter Jefferson
Archibald "Archie "Gunner
David Trencherman
Antony Head
Niel Sercum
Zack Thomas
Philip "Pip" Goddling
:eek:
Paul

[tikkifriend]

Could we have a poll/vote on the rules please:

1. A vote for keeping the rules without amendments YES/NO.

If the no's out number the yes vote:

2. A vote on which amendments or additions to the rules to be included a simple YES/NO by all playing.

Once that is done the rules will be published and they are what we play with from game 1.

(Of course no rule can be set in concrete and some amendments/additions may need revising if they become unworkable or just need refining)

Neil

1 no for me we need to use the experience gained from the last 15 missions to improve the rules We need a definative vote on specific issues in a new thread i started so we can all keep track of whats going on

:)
paul

[flash]

Here's a few, hope it helps:

Wolff, Kurt

Frommherz, Hermann

Osterkamp, Theodor

Billik, Paul

Sachsenberg, Gotthard

Allmenroeder (Allmenröder), Karl

Degelow, Carl

Mai, Josef

Neckel, Ulrich

Schaefer (Schäfer), Karl Emil

Auffarth (Auffahrt), Harald

Blume, Walter

Nice - but would such illustrious pilots wish to be JAFOs ?! :eek:

[flash]

how about ( and add your own ranks as you see fit)
Harry Hughs
Peter Jefferson
Archibald "Archie "Gunner
David Trencherman
Antony Head
Niel Sercum
Zack Thomas
Philip "Pip" Goddling
:eek:
Paul

Thanks Paul - they are all destined to be O.R.s as they are gunners/observers ;)

[MoonSylver]

Now can anyone help me with 12 German names for observers & 12 Allied names for observers - I'm trying to build the Jasta/Squadron so that we each have named opponents to chew through. ta muchly ! :)

Try this German name generator. It's WW2, but still works great for this purpose. ;)

http://www.herofiles.org/utilities/namegen/names.php?sex=m&lw=n&branch=l&rank=27&qty=10

[Nightbomber]

Nightbomber's Eagles Jasta members are pilots of special Luftstreitkratfte detatchement formed in the late stage of War on the basis of the famous Kaiser's "Oberschlesische Soldaten" decree issued on Dec. 31st 1917. According to its - political - wording, all officialy distinguished and awarded soldiers born in Oberschlesien region were allowed to ask for a transfer to newly formed OberSchlesische Abteilungen(OSA) consisted of their fellow countrymen under their own command. Those men were well known of their reliability, sturdiness and ferocity in combat, however majority of them enjoyed a kind of double, German/Polish origin, calling themselves Silesians. Some of such infantry and cavalrymen asked for transfers to air units by the beginning of 1918 and their dreams of flying came true very soon.
Eight of them were sent to reinforce the famous, but recently decimated Kaiser's Eagles Jasta. Now four scouts of them think how to distnictively paint their planes...and they came to an interesting idea...
No one of them is an Ace so far.
These brave men are :
Rittm. Alois Schymalla,
Rittm. Johann Kroll,
Leut. Heinz Olejnik,
Leut. Jorg Mainka,
Leut. Arnold Kula/ ArtObs.: Leut. Georg Gola,
Leut. Josef Warzecha/ ArtObs.: Leut. Norbert Galla.


The names above are quite popular among Silesians even nowadays.

I assume we are going to field 6 PC pilots and 2 obeservers, are not we?

[Nightbomber]

Another question of mine: I would like to fly against unknown enemy pilots instead of named ones. What about the rest of participants?

[Nightbomber]

I have taken the liberty of updating the Ace Abilities sticky by adding alongside the name what they mean (taken from the cards), hopefully this will help us all as well as the new chaps :)
You will see that I have deleted a couple - Always Coming Home & the Technical abilities as they refer to looking at damage cards. ... we are playing solo after all !.. and added Quick Shot II which might be advantageous.

I have not put in the Chivalrous Aptitude details yet as I would suggest that this too is removed - the detail about it is in the sticky if you wish to remind yourselves - I find this a bit too much personally, messing about with the explosion card and not causing a fire, but to balance that you get two ace abilities which, if selected properly, could allow you to cause extra damage or make you nearly impervious to damage !
You may share my view as the only two persons to use it were Jan, who left the campaign, and Jon (steel_ratt) who is also MIA.

Please let me know your thoughts chaps - I will of course go with the consensus :salute:

I would go right with the official ace abilities from RAP. There is no use to substitute official rules with the house ones, until the official abilities exist. That would help to standarize the games with all the benefits it provides.

[flash]

Another question of mine: I would like to fly against unknown enemy pilots instead of named ones. What about the rest of participants?

As I've just created a Jasta & a Squadron of pilots and nominated flights for each pilot to fly against then I'm obviously up for shooting them down ! :guns:
Rob tends not to fly against our generated pilots, if you do the same it will balance out & give those that do more meat for the grinder :slysmile:

[flash]

I would go right with the official ace abilities from RAP. There is no use to substitute official rules with the house ones, until the official abilities exist. That would help to standarize the games with all the benefits it provides.

As I said previously I don't have the RAP, there maybe others that don't too so could you post what those ace abilities are please Andrzej ?
Any acceptance of abilities/rules, official or not, will standardize the games !! ;)

[flash]

...I assume we are going to field 6 PC pilots and 2 observers, are not we?

Correct & your chaps are on the roster ;)

[Nightbomber]

@flash: Dave, I will try to summarize the Ace abilities from RAP. I will surely follow Rob's way and fly against the unknown. Thanks:)

[MoonSylver]

Another question of mine: I would like to fly against unknown enemy pilots instead of named ones. What about the rest of participants?

I like the idea of flying against a named roster of AI pilots who also grow & develop & rack up victories & defeats as the campaign progresses. But I can see the downside of extra hassle in bookkeeping & in composing AAR's too. So while I would prefer named, I'd be ok with unknown.

I'm still a LITTLE unclear on how the named AI pilots roster works. We each have out own? If so how do we determine who flies? Or is it a "community" pool? If so, how are they assigned? :confused:

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Nice - but would such illustrious pilots wish to be JAFOs ?! :eek:

Dunno but MvR started somewhere...and this is fantasy really.

[Nightbomber]

I like the idea of flying against a named roster of AI pilots who also grow & develop & rack up victories & defeats as the campaign progresses. But I can see the downside of extra hassle in bookkeeping & in composing AAR's too. So while I would prefer named, I'd be ok with unknown.

I'm still a LITTLE unclear on how the named AI pilots roster works. We each have out own? If so how do we determine who flies? Or is it a "community" pool? If so, how are they assigned? :confused:

As we played so far, You decide which pilots of your PC pool take part in a particular mission.:)

[Nightbomber]

Frankly, I am toying with an idea of employing some special solo rules just for my campaign. Here they are
1. Limited ammo, 8 damage cards for each plane involved except rear gunners.[may make a mission shorter]
2. Simplified altitude rules according to the last Rob's scenario, called Height Advantage.[may make a mission longer] To get a 3D feel of the solo gaming at last! I will write more about the HA option in another post.
Do you think such exceptions are acceptable for the whole gang;)?

[fast.git]

Frankly, I am toying with an idea of employing some special solo rules just for my campaign. Here they are
1. Limited ammo, 8 damage cards for each plane involved except rear gunners.[may make a mission shorter]
2. Simplified altitude rules according to the last Rob's scenario, called Height Advantage.[may make a mission longer] To get a 3D feel of the solo gaming at last! I will write more about the HA option in another post.
Do you think such exceptions are acceptable for the whole gang;)?

I'm cool with those... I was thinking of doing something similar concerning damage cards. And I've found that the solo rules (so long as the "AI" is played "I") for altitude (selecting appropriate climbs, dives, and immelmanns where appropriate) work quite well.

As far as flying against "named" opponents? Not sure... part of me likes the idea of knowing those I tangle with. On the other hand, however, I also like the idea of the "fog of war." I just finished reading (and will post a review in the next couple of days) September Evening: The Life and Final Combat of the German World War One Ace Werner Voss by Diggins... and appreciated the fact that the AARs of the six experienced RFC pilots engaged in Voss' final battle included numerous discrepancies... even concerning the types of scouts involved, let alone individual markings.

Might be nice to only rarely recognize my opponents... especially if they were someone. Know what I mean?

Btw, here are my offerings for the upcoming campaign (already pm'ed):
Scouts
Oberleutnant Johannes von der Ahe (ace ability tbd)
Leutnant Julius Reimer (ace ability tbd)
Leutnant der Reserve Lukas Schweiger (rookie)
Leutnant der Reserve Kurt Lindemann (rookie)

Two-Seaters
Oberleutnant Paul Teichmann / Leutnant Martin Ernst
Leutnant Jakob Abenteuer / Feldwebel Friedrich Haller

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Is the 'loop' card the immelman? Or am I totally of the plot?

[MoonSylver]

As we played so far, You decide which pilots of your PC pool take part in a particular mission.:)

How about for the AI pilots? That's where I'm confused. ;)


Frankly, I am toying with an idea of employing some special solo rules just for my campaign. Here they are
1. Limited ammo, 8 damage cards for each plane involved except rear gunners.[may make a mission shorter]
2. Simplified altitude rules according to the last Rob's scenario, called Height Advantage.[may make a mission longer] To get a 3D feel of the solo gaming at last! I will write more about the HA option in another post.
Do you think such exceptions are acceptable for the whole gang;)?

I don't see why not. :)


I just finished reading (and will post a review in the next couple of days) September Evening: The Life and Final Combat of the German World War One Ace Werner Voss by Diggins... and appreciated the fact that the AARs of the six experienced RFC pilots engaged in Voss' final battle included numerous discrepancies... even concerning the types of scouts involved, let alone individual markings.

I really want to read that one. :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

We have flown the AI pilot that was best equipped for the job. That meant mainly either he was not in hospital, or flew a two seater for bombing, etc.
Some scenarios as written gave an option for the game. I personally like to muck about with the weighting of the scenario.
You will see what I mean when I do the Bomber mission this weekend.
Rob.

[flash]

I like the idea of flying against a named roster of AI pilots who also grow & develop & rack up victories & defeats as the campaign progresses. But I can see the downside of extra hassle in bookkeeping & in composing AAR's too. So while I would prefer named, I'd be ok with unknown.
I'm still a LITTLE unclear on how the named AI pilots roster works. We each have out own? If so how do we determine who flies? Or is it a "community" pool? If so, how are they assigned? :confused:

I have constructed a Jasta & a Squadron of names for us to fly against - when the time comes I will be able to give you a list of enemy pilots/crew - all you have to do is select who is flying against you in a given mission & post the results - I will take care of the book keeping for you & I may even rotate the enemy formations so we all get a crack at them ! As the AI jasta/squadron lose pilots then I will feed in replacements.
They will get kills themselves as my latest AAR shows !
Hope this will clarify the points raised Rob, and by the way, it's not compulsory !! ;)

[csadn]

Ace Status: Character gets a Last Name.
Double Ace Status: Character gets a First Name.

:)

[fast.git]

Ace Status: Character gets a Last Name.
Double Ace Status: Character gets a First Name.

:)
Genius!

[MoonSylver]

I have constructed a Jasta & a Squadron of names for us to fly against - when the time comes I will be able to give you a list of enemy pilots/crew - all you have to do is select who is flying against you in a given mission & post the results - I will take care of the book keeping for you & I may even rotate the enemy formations so we all get a crack at them ! As the AI jasta/squadron lose pilots then I will feed in replacements.
They will get kills themselves as my latest AAR shows !
Hope this will clarify the points raised Rob, and by the way, it's not compulsory !! ;)

May no t be copulsory, but it sounds good to me! :thumbsup: I thought that was how it went, but wasn't 100% sure & just wanted to confirm. :)


Ace Status: Character gets a Last Name.
Double Ace Status: Character gets a First Name.

:)

:lol:

[7eat51]

As far as flying against "named" opponents? Not sure... part of me likes the idea of knowing those I tangle with. On the other hand, however, I also like the idea of the "fog of war." I just finished reading (and will post a review in the next couple of days) September Evening: The Life and Final Combat of the German World War One Ace Werner Voss by Diggins... and appreciated the fact that the AARs of the six experienced RFC pilots engaged in Voss' final battle included numerous discrepancies... even concerning the types of scouts involved, let alone individual markings.

Looks like an interesting read. I like your analysis of the fog of war as demonstrated in the book. I'll have to pick this up.

[7eat51]

I have constructed a Jasta & a Squadron of names for us to fly against - when the time comes I will be able to give you a list of enemy pilots/crew - all you have to do is select who is flying against you in a given mission & post the results - I will take care of the book keeping for you & I may even rotate the enemy formations so we all get a crack at them ! As the AI jasta/squadron lose pilots then I will feed in replacements.
They will get kills themselves as my latest AAR shows !
Hope this will clarify the points raised Rob, and by the way, it's not compulsory !! ;)

Great. Thanks for your work.

Will there be a list of Squadron planes that we'll fly against? I want to ensure I have the correct minis while there is time.

[flash]

Great. Thanks for your work.
Will there be a list of Squadron planes that we'll fly against? I want to ensure I have the correct minis while there is time.

Thanks Eric - there is no definitive list so you can fly what you have so long as they are within the timeline - up to now the Central Powers have flown Albatros D.III & D.Va; Pfalz D.III, Fokker Dr1, Rumpler C.IV, Roland C.II - the entente have had Sopwith Triplanes, Camels, prototype Dolphin; Nieuport 17; Spad XIII; SE5a; DH4; DH9; Bristol F2B; Breguet BR14.
I can see Fokker D.VII & Sopwith Snipes in the future for sure & likely some other exotic types from the Siemens Schuckert, Roland & Pfalz stables. I'm sure the players will let us know when these types become operational ! :slysmile:

[7eat51]

Hello Folks,

Here is my group:

Scout Pilots
Obltn Dietfried Flieger
Ltn Burkhard Kundschafter
Ltn Hartwig Krieger
Ltn Gottlieb Späher

Two-Seater Crews
Obltn Meinhard Jäger & Vitzefeldwebel Meinrad Beobachter
Ltn Winfried Vordersitz & Feldwebel Wilfried Rücksitz

I am still learning about ace issues, and will update once that is settled.

A thank you goes to Dave (flash) for his help with ranking my pilots and observers.

[7eat51]

I realize the first comment below might be moot as of now, but last night I had the opportunity to read through all the postings in this and the associated threads dealing with rules, etc., so I thought I would share my opinion and ask a few questions for clarification.

I am in favor of folks carrying on with their pilots. Part of the original intention was to write a story together, and carrying on pilots, regardless of their accumulated skills, would fit that original intention. If my newbie pilots die in the cause of writing this grand narrative, then they served the campaign well.

As for the ace abilities, what has already been removed seems sensible to me. Has a final decision been made concerning Chivalrous Aptitude?

Am I correct in understanding that a final version of the rules will be in hand before 1 March?

Am I correct in understanding that as a player in a given scenario, I can make an adjustment to a rule if the adjustment better fits the scenario?

I might have more questions as I review our discussions and read through the rules in the Rules and Accessories Pack - this will be my first time playing with some of the rules. I appreciate all of your help thus far.

[csadn]

Genius!

You laugh; but that seems to be how it works, if one looks at the cards issued for the game. Guys with lots of kills: Two names. Guys with some kills: One name, plus maybe an initial. Guys with no kills: "Unknown Pilot".

[fast.git]

You laugh; but that seems to be how it works, if one looks at the cards issued for the game. Guys with lots of kills: Two names. Guys with some kills: One name, plus maybe an initial. Guys with no kills: "Unknown Pilot".

No laughter at all... my accolades were genuine. I love the idea... simple and elegant. You're a faceless EA until you've achieved some notoriety.

[MoonSylver]

You laugh; but that seems to be how it works, if one looks at the cards issued for the game. Guys with lots of kills: Two names. Guys with some kills: One name, plus maybe an initial. Guys with no kills: "Unknown Pilot".

I LOL'ed when I read it, but it's a good observation, & not a bad idea. :thumbsup:

[wargamer]

You laugh; but that seems to be how it works, if one looks at the cards issued for the game. Guys with lots of kills: Two names. Guys with some kills: One name, plus maybe an initial. Guys with no kills: "Unknown Pilot".

LOL, but instead of unknown pilot, just put newb or replacement.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Seems fine to me. I have flown against unknown AIs in most of my missions even where the Jasta was recognised because of its markings, but often the pilot only becomes known if he is brought down on the Allied side of the lines ,or if he has been frequently up against the Squadron, or is a well known Ace. Even the aircraft types are sometimes not recognised or mistaken in the heat of my sorties.
Rob.

[flash]

Of course, in order for the pilot to become a known entity to his enemy someone must know his name & have tracked his progress ! ;)

[tikkifriend]

I realize the first comment below might be moot as of now, but last night I had the opportunity to read through all the postings in this and the associated threads dealing with rules, etc., so I thought I would share my opinion and ask a few questions for clarification.

I am in favor of folks carrying on with their pilots. Part of the original intention was to write a story together, and carrying on pilots, regardless of their accumulated skills, would fit that original intention. If my newbie pilots die in the cause of writing this grand narrative, then they served the campaign well.

As for the ace abilities, what has already been removed seems sensible to me. Has a final decision been made concerning Chivalrous Aptitude?

Am I correct in understanding that a final version of the rules will be in hand before 1 March?

Am I correct in understanding that as a player in a given scenario, I can make an adjustment to a rule if the adjustment better fits the scenario?

I might have more questions as I review our discussions and read through the rules in the Rules and Accessories Pack - this will be my first time playing with some of the rules. I appreciate all of your help thus far.

I hope to have a definative set of rules/additions by the 24th so that they can be used for my first scenario start date on March 1st
Paul

[tikkifriend]

pool? If so, how are they assigned?
I have constructed a Jasta & a Squadron of names for us to fly against - when the time comes I will be able to give you a list of enemy pilots/crew - all you have to do is select who is flying against you in a given mission & post the results - I will take care of the book keeping for you & I may even rotate the enemy formations so we all get a crack at them ! As the AI jasta/squadron lose pilots then I will feed in replacements.
They will get kills themselves as my latest AAR shows !
Hope this will clarify the points raised Rob, and by the way, it's not compulsory !!

Thanks for that Dave I will endevour to get the new additions to the rules by the 24th when I put up the first mission.
Paul
Paul

[Nightbomber]

I have uploaded a file with detailed official Ace abilities right from the RAP to the Files section. You can download it from there or I can email the .pdf file if you PM your address. Now we can have the Ace rules standardized.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I have uploaded a file with detailed official Ace abilities right from the RAP to the Files section. You can download it from there or I can email the .pdf file if you PM your address. Now we can have the Ace rules standardized.

Thanks Andrzej.
That will be very helpful to save having to look in the rules all the time.
Rob.

[Nightbomber]

Typing errors (hope all of them) corrected in version 1.1.

[Lloydthegamer]

Just to be clear then, these are the ace abilities that we will be using for OTT? Thanks for your work on this! :)
I have uploaded a file with detailed official Ace abilities right from the RAP to the Files section. You can download it from there or I can email the .pdf file if you PM your address. Now we can have the Ace rules standardized.

[Lloydthegamer]

I tried a sample solo game last night and found that my hat is off to all of you who did the first one! I see now I will have to plan these excursions a little bit better than I did last night. It is also clear that the dining room is too small for something like this and I better get busy clearing up a space in the basement. I also wasn't using the advanced movement charts since I didn't discover then until this morning. Live and learn I guess, much better to make mistakes before the real thing starts.

[flash]

Just to be clear then, these are the ace abilities that we will be using for OTT? Thanks for your work on this! :)

That's not been decided yet Lloyd, it's one of the options though, this is the other (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?9191-Ace-Abilities-for-the-Over-the-Trenches-Campaign). Let us know which you'd prefer on the New Rukes/Variations thread please. ;)

[tikkifriend]

I tried a sample solo game last night and found that my hat is off to all of you who did the first one! I see now I will have to plan these excursions a little bit better than I did last night. It is also clear that the dining room is too small for something like this and I better get busy clearing up a space in the basement. I also wasn't using the advanced movement charts since I didn't discover then until this morning. Live and learn I guess, much better to make mistakes before the real thing starts.

Great to hear you had a goodtraining flight Llyod. Its always better if you can leave the planes in situ if you can as it may take some time to get through the missions all in one go.
Chocks away.
Paul

[flash]

Waiting on pilots from Sven & Rob (Moonsylver) if you chaps can oblige I can then finish the work on the s/sheets - :thankyou:

[Marechallannes]

Sven's Late-War-Eagles:

Scouts:

Rittmeister Wilhelm Schneider (Acrobatic Pilot I)
Oberleutnant Adam Rosenzweig (Lucky Git I)
Leutnant Erwin Munk
Leutnant Hektor von Fischbach

Two-seaters:

Oberleutnant Siegfried Müller / Leutnant Richard Wegfeld*
Leutnant Stephan Winter / Feldwebel Heribert Grötsch

*Artilleriebeobachter / artillery spotter

Jasta 23b (Royal Bavarian Jagdstaffel)

[flash]

Thanks Sven - your boys are on the roster ;)

[MoonSylver]

Waiting on pilots from Sven & Rob (Moonsylver) if you chaps can oblige I can then finish the work on the s/sheets - :thankyou:

Sorry for the delay. Work has picked up badly & been dealing w/ a SDD flare up. :cry: I have them jotted down in my notepad. I'll go find them in few minutes. :)

[tikkifriend]

Work is the curse of the gaming classes :money:

Plenty of time to prep for the first mission

Paul

[flash]

Sorry for the delay. Work has picked up badly & been dealing w/ a SDD flare up. :cry: I have them jotted down in my notepad. I'll go find them in few minutes. :)

I have them now Rob, thankyou. Congrats on the 500th post & promotion !! ;)

[csadn]

a SDD flare up.

"SDD"?

[tikkifriend]

Yeh what is a SDD Rob:confused:
Paul

[MoonSylver]

I have them now Rob, thankyou. Congrats on the 500th post & promotion !! ;)

Oh wow! I knew I was getting close, but lost track of how close & didn't realize I went over the top. Thanks! :salute:


"SDD"?


Yeh what is a SDD Rob:confused:
Paul

Severe Depressive Disorder aka Major Depressive Disorder. I was a bit hesitant to bring it up, but figured you chaps had the right to know. :sick:

[flash]

Gaming helps Rob - it helped me ! ;)

[7eat51]

Hey Rob,

I have had some anxiety issues due to stress from work and school. As Dave just mentioned, getting back into gaming has been therapy for me. You're flying in good company.

Eric

[MoonSylver]

Gaming helps Rob - it helped me ! ;)


Hey Rob,

I have had some anxiety issues due to stress from work and school. As Dave just mentioned, getting back into gaming has been therapy for me. You're flying in good company.

Eric

Thanks guys. WOW/WOG has been a big help as it gives me something to focus on & stay occupied. When I'm having an episode I've noticed in recent times one of my behaviors is to withdraw, disengage, & give up on things I enjoy. :erk: So I've been making an extra effort to stick with WOG & not throw in the towel even when I feel like I don't have time, or that it makes more than I can manage to play, set up, keep track of etc. :eek: :)

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Anytime you want to talk just PM me. I know what its like and its better to talk, certainly gaming helped. I was fortunate and managed a 2 week holiday with good mates to Canada to help me get over a personal loss. The gaming side of the trip was great in helping me out.

[tikkifriend]

Thanks for trusting us Eric, I didnt mean to pry so apologies on my part.

Just remember that this OTT campaign is only for fun, you can take it as seriously as you wish, but the aim of the game is to make friends and have a good time playing . Glad you feel well enough to join us.:clap:

Paul

[7eat51]

Anytime you want to talk just PM me. I know what its like and its better to talk, certainly gaming helped. I was fortunate and managed a 2 week holiday with good mates to Canada to help me get over a personal loss. The gaming side of the trip was great in helping me out.

Ditto.

Neil, good mates do help. I have several friends who have dealt with anxiety issues like me, also due to stress. It is great having folks who understand. Thanks.

[Nightbomber]

...and after all we are all gameholics in a positive meaning. If I can be of help as well - no hesitate to share your feelings, chaps.

[tikkifriend]

I have constructed a Jasta & a Squadron of names for us to fly against - when the time comes I will be able to give you a list of enemy pilots/crew - all you have to do is select who is flying against you in a given mission & post the results - I will take care of the book keeping for you & I may even rotate the enemy formations so we all get a crack at them ! As the AI jasta/squadron lose pilots then I will feed in replacements.
They will get kills themselves as my latest AAR shows !
Hope this will clarify the points raised Rob, and by the way, it's not compulsory !! ;)

Dave are you going to add this new roster as a new sticky so we can all have a ganders at it:please:
paul

[Marechallannes]

I hope you are not irritated, that I didn't participate in this discussion so much, but I think the organization is in good hands.;)

When I'll have posted my next AAR, I have to care for the next Midway Rising Mission.

So my time for the late month campaign is really short.

[flash]

Dave are you going to add this new roster as a new sticky so we can all have a ganders at it:please:
paul

It's in the spreadsheet here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtX-h13_jh4KdHNrOFhSZGotdVdrQkd4SG9jNE1ZQnc#gid=0) Just select your Final Months tab - Bulldogs or Eagles - you will find your squadron/Jasta roster & beneath that you will find your assigned enemies. I am toying with the idea of switching them about as we move through the campaign just so you are up against different bods each time - that just means you'll have to look up who you're against each mission, or I can add it to a Mission thread ? Try not to kill them all in mission one !!
I think if we use the I in AI then a bit of self preservation would not go amiss in the rules of this campaign ie running away when wounded/burning/badly damaged would be logical. :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I hope you are not irritated, that I didn't participate in this discussion so much, but I think the organization is in good hands.;)

When I'll have posted my next AAR, I have to care for the next Midway Rising Mission.

So my time for the late month campaign is really short.

Remember when we started the campaign Sven, I said my missions may be intermittent because I'm away most weekends in the Summer, and you all said that was O.K. The fact that the Summer was a washout and I could do them is not the point. We should extend you the same courtesy. It is only fair. You play when you can. Not every Flight has to do every mission. It's not as if there were points at the end of it after all.

It is just great to have you in the loop.
Rob.

[tikkifriend]

It's in the spreadsheet here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtX-h13_jh4KdHNrOFhSZGotdVdrQkd4SG9jNE1ZQnc#gid=0) Just select your Final Months tab - Bulldogs or Eagles - you will find your squadron/Jasta roster & beneath that you will find your assigned enemies. I am toying with the idea of switching them about as we move through the campaign just so you are up against different bods each time - that just means you'll have to look up who you're against each mission, or I can add it to a Mission thread ? Try not to kill them all in mission one !!
I think if we use the I in AI then a bit of self preservation would not go amiss in the rules of this campaign ie running away when wounded/burning/badly damaged would be logical. :)

Excellent Dave thanks for that :thumbsup: Nice to see who I will be flying against in the comming months.
Paul :camel:l

[tikkifriend]

Remember when we started the campaign Sven, I said my missions may be intermittent because I'm away most weekends in the Summer, and you all said that was O.K. The fact that the Summer was a washout and I could do them is not the point. We should extend you the same courtesy. It is only fair. You play when you can. Not every Flight has to do every mission. It's not as if there were points at the end of it after all.

It is just great to have you in the loop.
Rob.

There will always be times when other things get in the way of our gaming so nobody need feel guilty for not getting through all the missions or not getting the AARs in on time.

Paul

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Above all we play to enjoy :D and we enjoy to play :D . It doesn't matter who plays and when, its the playing that counts, whenever you are able.:thumbsup:
On the plus side I enjoy reading the AAR's :D, the pics :D and getting ideas from others who play similar scenarios :thumbsup: . Lots of thank yous to Paul :thumbsup: and Dave :thumbsup: for all the excellent behind the scenes work putting this next phase of the campaign together. :thankyou:

Look forward to lots of :guns::guns::guns::guns: in my little :fokker: and shooting down lots of :camel:

I :pray: my bold pilots will survive the :camel: and look forward to meeting the Bulldogs once more in combat. :salute:

Plenty of :drinks: and :singin: in the mess afterwards.

:fokker: Neil

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Afraid you are out of luck with the Camels Herr Scafloc. They have all been recalled home by the Ministry of Food to replaces the horses in the Burgers.
There is a war on you know.
Kyte.
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20090&d=1313002721

WOT ! NO BURGERS

[tikkifriend]

Afraid you are out of luck with the Camels Herr Scafloc. They have all been recalled home by the Ministry of Food to replaces the horses in the Burgers.
There is a war on you know.
Kyte.

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20090&d=1313002721


And they look badly on the french for having a bit of Cheval as the plat de jour.:deadhorse::deadhorse:
Paul

[flash]

I look at it as an underhand way in making us Brits more European !! :lol:

[Marechallannes]

Do the Beefeaters differ between horse and cow?

:confused:


... You play when you can. Not every Flight has to do every mission. It's not as if there were points at the end of it after all.

It is just great to have you in the loop.
Rob.

Thank you, Rob.

I don't think I'll miss a mission, so far. It's more the development of the camaign, rules discussion, etc...

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

If the French can't :deadhorse:...who can? ;)

:guns::crash::singin::smack::drinks::surrender: (in that order) Neil

[tikkifriend]

I look at it as an underhand way in making us Brits more European !! :lol:

Nay, Nay !!!

[MoonSylver]

You guys are almost as crazy as I am. :lol:

[tikkifriend]

You guys are almost as crazy as I am. :lol:

Ah thats the Mad Cow Disease kicking in :eat: :erk: ( not in my case as I left the UK in 1992) ;)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I ate horse for the first time in Paris on my 17th birthday, and found it just as good as any other meat. Apart from what they inject horses with I can't see the problem. But then, I can't see much anyway.:cool: Where's me stick and me guide dog?
Rob.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

What date is the 1st mission for the final months campaign due to be posted? Just so I can get a slant on when mine is due or have dates already been posted for these?

[flash]

Kick off is in a couple of weeks - Paul pushed it back to allow us time to do 17. :)

[tikkifriend]

I will post the first Mission on the 1st March with an AAR by the 30th if thats good for everyone.
Paul

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I will post the first Mission on the 1st March with an AAR by the 30th if thats good for everyone.
Paul

I am good with that as I go away on holiday on 22nd March, so would do it the first weekend before things get too frenetic in the household.
Rob.

[fast.git]

I will post the first Mission on the 1st March with an AAR by the 30th if thats good for everyone.
Paul

Works for me, too. Will give me time to finish 17, and then shift gears.

[flash]

Happy with that Paul - tables's cleared for action ! ;)

[Nightbomber]

Would you mind, if my Jasta detachment pilots fight the French pilots, Paul? I would love to see SPADs XII in action - we have not seen them in the campaign, so it would be a nice addition to the story. And we have some new beautiful SPADs of the last series I want to use:)

[flash]

Would you mind, if my Jasta detachment pilots fight the French pilots, Paul? I would love to see SPADs XII in action - we have not seen them in the campaign, so it would be a nice addition to the story. And we have some new beautiful SPADs of the last series I want to use:)

You are now facing:

Lieutenant Andre Wertheim
Sous-Lieutenant Pierre Achard
Sous-Lieutenant Augustin Violet-Marty
Sous-Lieutenant Felix Barbaza
Sergent Albert Cardon
Caporal Yves Delorme

Your previous opponents are now replacements for the Tommies ! ;)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Sounds as if our Allies are in for a bit of a rough time then Dave.
Rob.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Merde, they get everywhere....bring em on.

[Nightbomber]

:thankyou: Dave!

[flash]

Sounds as if our Allies are in for a bit of a rough time then Dave.
Rob.

I have replacements on standby ! ;)