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JBParkland
03-06-2010, 14:04
A interesting crucial rules point come up in a recent game. A Camel fired 2 rocket salvos at a balloon. After the Camel's second straight a Dr1 fired at the Camel. The damage card the Camel received for being shot at by the Dr1 had a jam result on it, meaning the Dr1's guns jammed. So far, so easy.

However, does that also mean the rockets missed because the Camel drew a card with special damage on it? :confused:

A strict reading of the rules implies the rockets miss:

"The target is hit after the next maneuver if all 3 of the following conditions are met:

3) the firing airplane does not draw any card with a special damage symbol because of enemy fire in these two rounds of maneuvers"

eg. the rules specifically say "draws any card with a special damage symbol" not something like "receives special damage". Also, elsewhere the rules tend to say "except jammed guns" when jams are excluded.

However, it doesn't seem to make much sense that the Camel was put off by the Dr1's guns jamming. I suppose it could be that the chance of drawing a special damage card represents the vagaries of rockets missing but it somehow feels slightly wrong.

As the balloon owner my interpretation veered towards the miss ;), but in the end we decided to compromise and say one rocket missed but the other hit on the basis that the jammed result was on the 2nd damage card the Camel received. The balloon promptly exploded :( so all honour was satisfied, but it would be good to get a definitive ruling for future occasions.

Has anyone else come across this problem and if so what's the general interpretation?

check6
03-06-2010, 14:49
jammed guns are not a special damage that affects the target aircraft, thus they aren't really a special damage, i would say the camel was good to fire.

usmc1855
03-06-2010, 15:12
jammed guns are not a special damage that affects the target aircraft, thus they aren't really a special damage, i would say the camel was good to fire.


This is correct. The special damage in the case of Jammed Guns affects the firing aircraft only. The Camel should still be able to fire it's rockets as normal.

JBParkland
03-07-2010, 14:12
Thanks, gents. That makes sense.

I'm obviously being too legalistic in my interpreation of the rules (occupational hazard of writing contracts for a living methinks :o).

sparty
03-07-2010, 19:44
Yeah I kind of think it should be a bit clearer about the effects of the damage being felt by the firing plane.

The Blue Baron
03-08-2010, 01:42
jammed guns are not a special damage that affects the target aircraft, thus they aren't really a special damage, i would say the camel was good to fire.

I would disagree with that. "Draws a spescial damage symbol" is quite clear. Why should a damage rudder or motor effect the rockets? I think the rule with damage symbol just represents the chance that something may go wrong while firing...

usmc1855
03-08-2010, 03:38
I would disagree with that. "Draws a spescial damage symbol" is quite clear. Why should a damage rudder or motor effect the rockets? I think the rule with damage symbol just represents the chance that something may go wrong while firing...

Th ignition system for these rockets was a manual/electronic system. The rule as presented, appear to take into account the necessary attention the pilot would have to devote to compensating for he sudden special damage his aircraft received from drawing the special damage card.

I've read numerous accounts where the pilot suddenly felt a jerk, stiffening or sudden slack in his control stick or rudder paddles which sent a momentary panic through the pilot as he fretted over what had happened, and worked frantically to determine the severity of the damage. I think the effect on firing the rocket in the same maneuver sequence in which you receive a special damage card is appropriate.

Angiolillo
03-08-2010, 07:44
Why should a damage rudder or motor effect the rockets? I think the rule with damage symbol just represents the chance that something may go wrong while firing...

This is very true. My intention was not to say that you miss since you have a problem with the rudder (you are flying straight...) or you are smoking. My idea is that if you are hit you could be distracted or somehow go out of route to avoid bullets or have any other kind of problems. Every time you are hit? No, just sometime. How often? Let's say every time there is a special damage icon on the card. So which icon is not relevant - since explosions and jammed guns are defined as special damages, they count too.

A different interpretation is as good, but probably must be agreed upon before starting.

Sorry for the unclear rule.

Oberst Hajj
03-08-2010, 10:40
Thanks for the answer Andrea. I don't think the rule was unclear, I think some of us might just be "reading into it" to much. No worries though, it is clear now!

JBParkland
03-08-2010, 12:55
Absolutely. Thanks to all for the definitive clarification.

usmc1855
03-08-2010, 17:37
This is correct. The special damage in the case of Jammed Guns affects the firing aircraft only. The Camel should still be able to fire it's rockets as normal.


Well... when in doubt, ask the man that wrote the rules! :D

I stand corrected.

Andrea, thanks for the clarification.

The Blue Baron
03-08-2010, 23:58
Thx for the answer, Andrea!

sparty
03-09-2010, 17:59
If you guys are going to believe Andrea...you're fools...CLEARLY he was kidding...you just don't understand Italians...

:p

(okay...thanks for the clarification)