Collisions - Options and most played option

[celticgriffon]

I have been reading through a bunch of campaigns on this site (including links elsewhere). I can't remember which one this was from (sorry to the original authors for not referencing your idea properly).

One group handled collisions in a rock paper scissors manor. When a collision is deemed to possibly occur each player takes a three card deck. The planes aren't moved with this deck it is a subgame which is played to determine damage.

The three card deck has a straight (playing chicken), a right bank and a left bank. Each player plays their card face down. Then both reveal simultaneously.

If both played a straight both take double damage. If you reveal a right and your opponent a left both take single damage. If you reveal a left and your opponent reveals a right both take single damage. Any other result is a near miss.

I would probably add a dive to the mix to make it a four card deck. If you both dive both planes take single damage.

This solution reminds me of old school GW Dungeonquest which was certainly charming. And of course the logistics only really make sense if both planes have approached the collision from a roughly head on position.

Michael

[Пилот]

We used to take 2 A cards, but we switched to 4 A (or 5 B) cards. When taking 2 cards you would attack enemy on purpose, but when taking four - you will think twice. Also when you draw explosion (and we use it any time - collision, enemy fire, burning airplane etc.) you are not down, but you take 4 new cards.

[Lugburz]

I love this suggestion! Not only does it make for a fun little "game-within-a-game", but it also introduces the "OH SH!%" panic response to almost colliding with another pilot. Obviously, the game wouldn't work with an observation balloon — you should deserve to draw damage for hitting such a large object!

I would take this one step further and require each pilot to use their chosen maneuver card during the next movement phase. After all, if the outcome of whether they hit is based on whether they choose the same card, then the subsequent movement should reflect that decision. Even when they aren't colliding head on — as described in the quote below — if the movement decision takes each plane in the same general direction, then deal damage.

I guess my only question is: would this kind of mini-game be applied ANY time two planes overlap pegs (same altitude -- regardless of climb tokens), or would this be employed using the normal rules [ie: Two planes collide if they are at the same altitude and they both do / don't have climb tokens]? I'm inclined to use the latter, sticking to the default collision condition.

I have been reading through a bunch of campaigns on this site (including links elsewhere). I can't remember which one this was from (sorry to the original authors for not referencing your idea properly).

One group handled collisions in a rock paper scissors manor. When a collision is deemed to possibly occur each player takes a three card deck. The planes aren't moved with this deck it is a subgame which is played to determine damage.

The three card deck has a straight (playing chicken), a right bank and a left bank. Each player plays their card face down. Then both reveal simultaneously.

If both played a straight both take double damage. If you reveal a right and your opponent a left both take single damage. If you reveal a left and your opponent reveals a right both take single damage. Any other result is a near miss.

I would probably add a dive to the mix to make it a four card deck. If you both dive both planes take single damage.

This solution reminds me of old school GW Dungeonquest which was certainly charming. And of course the logistics only really make sense if both planes have approached the collision from a roughly head on position.

Michael

[celticgriffon]

head to head collision cards.pdf

Hey Keegan (and everyone),

I had a professional artist make a few cards for us.

Here is what he created. Just remember - if you don't have any C damage cards just use two A cards instead. I think that would be the equivalent. I only use these cards if the collision is head to head (both planes must be within the front 180 degrees of each other).



Cheers,
Michael

[Lugburz]

Marvelous!

[Albert Ross]

Yep, two 'A' damage cards are the official substitute for one 'C' card.
We've been simply cutting the 'A' damage deck and only colliding if both pilots draw the same number, but I am definitely going to steal these!

One question though - why didn't you include a climb option too?

head to head collision cards.pdf
Just remember - if you don't have any C damage cards just use two A cards instead. I think that would be the equivalent. I only use these cards if the collision is head to head (both planes must be within the front 180 degrees of each other).

[celticgriffon]

I am definitely going to steal these!

One question though - why didn't you include a climb option too?

I guess I only wanted a 33% chance of collision. Every extra card reduces the rate of potential damage. Anyone with a bit of photoshop experience should be able to adjust these as they wish. I suck at photoshop so I will decline in advance... lol.. I just ask that anyone who alters these images gives credit to the artist - Tim Park - for his awesome addition, and that you post any adjustments to the site so everyone can use!!

Cheers,
Michael

[Flying Officer Kyte]

What a spiffing set of cards.
Such a great idea too.
Rob.

[MoonSylver]

Love this idea! I may yoink them later! I may add a climb too. KInd of reminds me of the REVERSE of tailing in "Dawn Patrol"

[celticgriffon]

Hey everyone,

I just spoke to Tim and he is going to make some backsides for these cards. Stay tuned... I might also get him to switch up some colours for a second set (cause it is always nice to have different sets for the Central powers and Entente)..

Cheers,
Michael

[Dark Horse]

I like using C deck but that is the kind of guy I am...

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Good news about the backs. It is always a problem not having suitable backs for custom cards.
Rob.

[Baron Rolf]

I'll start to use the C damage deck for when Hayden's and mine collide , but just lately the tide has turned in my favour and poor Hayden's Entente planes have been knocked out of the game with the explosion card , and it could now happen to my planes judging by how much damage the C deck dishes out.

[HTRAINo]

Over the past 3 games, every time we've had a collision i've lost a plane... so now, it's payback time!!! lol

*Also, we won't be using my duff digi-cam to take photos anymore. Tonight, it's your turn for uploading (as I failed miserably last time, and lost 30 photos).

[Baron Rolf]

And the game last night was no different , except that my Fokker Dr.I had the misfortune to be taken out by a collision curses , but it was the same result total Central Powers victory , just got to upload the images as proof of my glorious victory over Hayden's Entente planes. I must say this it was a classic encounter above no man's land , were the battle could of gone either way and was an entertaining game , we tryed out our new acquisitions yesterday my Gotha bomber and Hayden's ballon which was fun but both of us need to learn the rules for them , apart from that a very enjoyable game but I think Hayden will come up with a cunning plan to deal with my planes for our next game.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Sounds like you had another top hole evening there Mark.
It will be interesting to hear your AAR and see the pictures.
Rob.

[HTRAINo]

I think Hayden will come up with a cunning plan to deal with my planes for our next game.

Yez! I just created a 'side mission' for your Gotha. You will have to bomb 2 AA's and my Plasticard Mark IV tank I have constructed tonight.

The mission will be called 'The Prototype' and you will have to 'capture' the tank, and bomb the AA's.

That should distract you, while I fill your fighters full 'o' holes and (taking back on topic) make you collide with your own planes & explode!!!

[Baron Rolf]

Hmm I'll look forward to that mission , and by the way I'll have a full complement of Fokker D.VII's so be prepared for a marathon of a game then.

[HTRAINo]

Sorry for hijacking this thread with pre match banter...

Carry on, as you were

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Sorry for hijacking this thread with pre match banter...

Carry on, as you were

I never noticed! Did any of you chaps?
Rob.

[HTRAINo]

Now i've got my hands on a C deck, it all makes so much sense now. I drew 2 cards and each were 8 in value, taking my DH.4 spiralling out of control.

I'm shuffling the decks next time

[Baron Rolf]

That C deck hurts like hell when your planes are on a collision course , one of my planes was badly damaged when I picked up a card with 10 luckily it managed to servive the game much to my relief.

[Пилот]

As I said, now we use 4A (rough, indeed) cards and aply all damage. With my poor Kibanov's Nieuport 23 (at given moment damaged 10), trying to escape to my side, I colided and I drew 12 points, dead pilot and fire... Poor crackling Kibanov...

[Boney10]

Like those cards, agree it would be good to have two different sets for each side. But then you could go down the line of,scouts and two seaters, then Albatross, DVII, SE5 and Camels and and and...........
Sorry started to burble then

Nice cards, will make a set and try them with our Avon campaign

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I will certainly go for a set of those when they emerge. Anything which makes dealing with collisions easier to deal with must be tried.
Rob.

[Пилот]

If you play a dive card, you may choose to drop less than the total distance, and just as in a climb take a number of climb counters but discard the peg. Thus you may for instance dive from level three to two but hold two climb counters.
If your climb rate is three, that would mean that one climb card would get you back to level three.
That would put you in prime position for shooting into the underbelly of your favourite two seater.
Rob.

I usually play like this: When diving lose peg, but keep climb counters. So, diving from level 3 and 2 counters will bring you to level 2 and 2 counters (not 2 with no counters, as per rules).

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I have also been toying with playing the stored energy counter. If you dive but do not use all your counters, you could gain an automatic one counter zoom on the next card. I know that technically the greater the dive the more stored energy for a zoom, but it just seemed an easy way to simulate the zoom. Like an overdive you could look upon it as an overzoom if you like.
Rob.

[Marechallannes]

Nice idea!

[Baron Rolf]

Michael I've got to say those cards are awsome chap , I'm going to print them off as when me and Hayden play we'll need those cards.

[David Manley]

Agreed, those cards are an excellent idea.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I have also copied the cards off. Any chance of getting some interesting backs for them please?
Rob.

[Boney10]

If no backs about Max has a Central and Entente back

[Flying Officer Kyte]

If no backs about Max has a Central and Entente back

Thanks Chris. i may have to resort to those, but was hoping for some generic ones which could not get mixed up with any other cards. i may have to devise my own.
Rob.

[somaliavet]

Thanks Chris. i may have to resort to those, but was hoping for some generic ones which could not get mixed up with any other cards. i may have to devise my own.
Rob.

Perhaps a card that has a face like this on it?

[celticgriffon]

Hey everyone,

Just a really quick update. The artist who made the collision cards, Tim Park, has done some more work for us. He added a second plane (yellow) and also has created some very,very nifty card back sides. The pdf is a pretty large file so he is going to try to reduce. I also want him to put his signature on them (no copyright or royalties on this... I just want his work to be credited properly - as an artist on canvas might).

Stay tuned - hopefully over the next few days we will have this cased!!

Cheers,
Michael

[Flying Officer Kyte]

That is very good news Michael. I'm glad I held off making backs now. It will be much nicer to have the same artists work back and front.
Please thank him very much on our behalf.
Rob.

[celticgriffon]

Ok - peeps... here is the new file. I will also try to post to the general files section.

Again - here is the information for Tim Park - the artist:

Tim Park
tim@entertainingart.com
www.entertainingart.com
and soulyogurt@BGG

[celticgriffon]

Hi everyone,

The files in jpg and pdf format are now available in the files secion (wwi / house rules / collision cards).

Cheers,
Michael

[HTRAINo]

I like your card backs dude! Rep points a comin for good posting.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

The backs look superb.
Thanks for organising them Michael.
Rob.

[littlejohn]

Just caught up to this discussion. I'm a newbie, but chalked up the fairly frequent collisions to my not knowing the game...but I'm keen to try out the ideas...overlapped peg sounds like it could really reduce the problem...and the cards are great! In the meantime, I'm learning to keep my distance from my wingmen...

[Nightbomber]

Just caught up to this discussion. I'm a newbie, but chalked up the fairly frequent collisions to my not knowing the game...but I'm keen to try out the ideas...overlapped peg sounds like it could really reduce the problem...and the cards are great! In the meantime, I'm learning to keep my distance from my wingmen...

.


There is a simple rule our group uses if we play without altitude rules. The collision happens only when a base collides with another plane's peg. No other situation triggers a collision.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

.


There is a simple rule our group uses if we play without altitude rules. The collision happens only when a base collides with another plane's peg. No other situation triggers a collision.

We do exactly in our games Andrzej. It seems to make sense.
Now I'm going to throw a curved ball into the whole discussion about collisions. First the cards are in my opinion a great way of deciding the outcome of a near miss or not, and I intend to incorporate them into all my games as a quick and elegant solution to the problem.
The real nub of the matter is climb counters when you are playing with altitude.(attitude)

I know that Andrea intended the climb counters to indicate the time it takes to gain an altitude rather than the physical fact of gaining a fraction of a climb peg. However, hypothetically, we can take one climb counter and then remain at the new non height for a considerable amount of time. If another aircraft with a climb counter but different climb rate now collides with us, it is deemed to have hit us, because it will have crossed our path to attain its superior height. My point is that it will have attained that height some considerable moves before and, therefore , be well above our height before we pass.
Now if the change in height is only a way of counting time, as Andrea uses it, why have we physically taken and played a card that shortens our move distance because we have climbed. Either we have physically climbed or not. We can't have it both ways.
I ,therefore, suggest that unless planes are both climbing on the same turn, or have the same climb rate, they should not collide if they have the same number of climb cards.
If you accept this premise, then by flying supporting aircraft at one climb card difference, say in rising echelon with your wingman, it should at least render the chances of hitting them nil, and using the climb counters in the way I advocate vastly reduce the chance of hitting one of the enemy to a factor which I consider far more realistic judging from the accounts of WWI dogfights which I have read.
Now feel free to shoot me down on this, but please try not to collide with me.
I put this down to all the G&T last night.
Rob.

[flash]

I think Tonyc206' Collision Chart thread really sorted out that issue Rob

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Not knocking the chart Dave. It is a work of art as I thought when I first saw it, but it is complex to remember who has which plane with which climb rate. I want a simple instant did he miss or not.
If your climb rate is different, and you are not both climbing similtaneously you missed, if not draw the cards. Simples!
Only took a few bullet holes there.Phew!
Rob.

[flash]

So you still have to remember the complex bit of who has which climb rate - just the resolution is simpler !
So glad I rarely use altitude !!

[Watchdog]

@celticgriffon - How did I miss those cards?

Awesome. Reputation points added.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

So you still have to remember the complex bit of who has which climb rate - just the resolution is simpler !

Yep! guess so.
Rob.

[Bluedevil]

Downloaded the cards...they are great! Thanks for sharing this!

[tikkifriend]

100% thanks
Paul