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Thread: Over the Trenches Officer's Mess

  1. #301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I think I may be looking at the wrong thing Dave.
    What I have bookmarked is:- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jNE1ZQnc#gid=0
    If you have another set of stats for the later campaign will you please give me the right place to view them.
    Sorry to be a troublesome old giffer.
    Rob.
    Right place Rob, just select the 'Bulldogs - Final Months' tab at the bottom to get to the page (then bookmark that one !!)

  2. #302

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Right place Rob, just select the 'Bulldogs - Final Months' tab at the bottom to get to the page (then bookmark that one !!)
    Got it thanks Dave.
    It was old giffer syndrome though. Because I magnify the page to 175% It had completely removed the footnote that said Bulldogs Final month tab. If you had not told me I would never have found it.
    Rob.

  3. #303

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    I have a Question for the Centeral Powers.
    Have the Eagles got a Jasta number, and if so are the Waspen a Flight of the Jasta, or are they a Jasta in their own right, and if so what is their number?
    Rob.

  4. #304

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    The Eagles are Jasta 24 according to the spreadsheet Rob, and the Wespen are a detachment of the Kaisers Eagles according to Andys thread so I take it that's a flight.
    Last edited by flash; 06-22-2013 at 12:56.

  5. #305

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    Thanks Dave. I thought that was it. just was not sure about the Jasta number.
    Rob.

  6. #306

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    Hi chaps... I need a long cold one to get back to active service after coming back from Origins escapade Ufff... returning to daily routines is painful ; so many letters to open and emails to answer... However I'm happy to get back to the campaign - hope to play the June scenario this weekend.
    To let you know about my adventures a bit - AirFrance lost my baggage with all the minis and goodies from Origins in Paris - but finally found it and brought to my place after 24 hours' time.
    Now let me stand you all a drink or two, for those were the merry Origins days of mine

  7. #307

  8. #308

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    Let me be the first (O.K. second then) to welcome you back O Wingman mine.
    I will also take you up on that drink, having spent the last two hours stripping down my circular saw to release the safety brake on it. Yes those little bits of plywood offcuts can be Bu***rs.
    Glad you had a good trip and got everything back O.K. When I went to Spain my aircraft were my hand luggage.
    Rob.

  9. #309

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    Welcome back wingman. A bit of a scare but it came out alright in the end.

  10. #310

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    Good to have you back this side of the Atlantic and no doubt ready to give the bulldogs hell

    look forward to reading your account of the great Origins adventure over a fine glass of ale

  11. #311

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    Glad you made it back safe & sound Andy. Watch out for those storms over the front, they're a killer...

  12. #312

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    Welcome back from your overseas duty Andy; glad you & the minis were reunited !

  13. #313

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    Bulletin Board -
    As Chris aka Fast.git is Hors de Combat please note that those to write missions have all been bumped up one - Mission 6 due August 1st is down for Mike aka OldGuy59. That is all !

  14. #314

  15. #315

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    Family member in hospital Rob, that's all I have. Sent a PM last week but he's not about at present.

  16. #316

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    The Boom card - using the critical hit deck.
    As it stands on the explosion card only we pull a critical hit card - red means dead and that's it. Green means you survive and we should then roll the dice to see what damage they took..whilst it certainly adds colour to the game some are thinking it's a little too deadly & would rather roll for pilots/crew as the odds are they will survive - I tend to agree with this and ask whether we should change back to rolling for boom card results, or not , as the case may be. (Should we change I will not be going back reviving lost pilots & crew !)
    A simple yea or nay from the pilots will be sufficient to decide - Yea for change - Nay to leave as is. Majority rules !

  17. #317

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    I have the critical hit cards printed in B&W, so I have missed the color skull part and have been waiting to pull the card that said the pilot was dead - misunderstanding on my part. I have been using them to bring more depth to the narratives, but have always followed up with rolling the dice to see the final outcome for the pilots. Personally, I prefer to keep such a schema, so I say Yea.

    On the fourth mission, I assumed we were in No-Man's-Land, and so I did not roll for Escaping Enemy Territory. Was I correct?

  18. #318

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    NML is counted as 'escaping enemy territory' as you get a bonus for landing in it; the bonus is superfluous otherwise.

  19. #319

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    As I have mentioned somwhere before, I looked at All the German Aces I could find plus Albert Ball, and compiled a list of how many of there victims lived or died. Armed with these percentages, I altered the percentage of critical hit cards to reflect this factor. If red comes up that is it for chummy. Otherwise, the factors for downded survivors that flash mentions comwe into effect, and can be rolled for by an independant party. I am happy to continue in this way, despite what has transpired in the present mission. Curse you Germans with your parachutes!
    Rob.

  20. #320

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Family member in hospital Rob, that's all I have. Sent a PM last week but he's not about at present.
    Thanks Dave.
    Rob.

  21. #321

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The Boom card - using the critical hit deck.
    As it stands on the explosion card only we pull a critical hit card - red means dead and that's it. Green means you survive and we should then roll the dice to see what damage they took..whilst it certainly adds colour to the game some are thinking it's a little too deadly & would rather roll for pilots/crew as the odds are they will survive - I tend to agree with this and ask whether we should change back to rolling for boom card results, or not , as the case may be. (Should we change I will not be going back reviving lost pilots & crew !)
    A simple yea or nay from the pilots will be sufficient to decide - Yea for change - Nay to leave as is. Majority rules !
    I like using the critical hit deck. Even though I've lost a couple of boys already to it, it definitely adds an element of risk & tension for me. So I'm in favor of continuing to use it.

  22. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    As I have mentioned somwhere before, I looked at All the German Aces I could find plus Albert Ball, and compiled a list of how many of there victims lived or died. Armed with these percentages, I altered the percentage of critical hit cards to reflect this factor. If red comes up that is it for chummy. Otherwise, the factors for downded survivors that flash mentions comwe into effect, and can be rolled for by an independant party. I am happy to continue in this way, despite what has transpired in the present mission. Curse you Germans with your parachutes!
    Rob.
    I'll have to go back & look for that post. I remember seeing it & thinking that was interesting at the time. I like the critical hits deck, but if it can be altered to be more statistically accurate, I'm all for that.

    As for parachutes, I didn't think I'd like them...until they saved a couple of my boys hash in the last scenario!

  23. #323

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    Currently 1 For, 2 Against. More votes please !

  24. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    As for parachutes, I didn't think I'd like them...until they saved a couple of my boys hash in the last scenario!
    It has produced a bit of an imbalance on survival rates between the Central Powers and the Allies. For ordinary pilots this won't matter but if an Ace goes down it can effect future missions disproportionately. I'm not particularly worried about it for myself, but some of you keen young men might think it a bit unfair.
    Rob.

  25. #325

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    It has produced a bit of an imbalance on survival rates between the Central Powers and the Allies. For ordinary pilots this won't matter but if an Ace goes down it can effect future missions disproportionately. I'm not particularly worried about it for myself, but some of you keen young men might think it a bit unfair.
    Rob.
    It's historic, as are the 'superior' German aircraft so we live - or die - with it !

  26. #326

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    It's historic, as are the 'superior' German aircraft so we live - or die - with it !
    Quite so Squadron Leader. Quite so.
    Kyte.

  27. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Currently 1 For, 2 Against. More votes please !
    I don't use it.

    Pilots are too valuable.

  28. #328

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    I think the critical card draw is a good comprimise , you have a 33%chance of surviving which , given the extreme nature of the boom card is I feel a fair reflection of a pilots chances. So I vote is Nay leave as is.

  29. #329

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    It would be helpful if someone posts the sequence of events that occur when a boom card is drawn. I am a bit confused, because, if I understand correctly, there is a color mechanism with the critical hit cards that determines if a pilot survives, and there is a dice-rolloing mechanism that determines if the pilot survives, and if so, if injuries are sustained. The dice-rolling mechanism has modifiers if a boom card is drawn or if a pilot is wounded. This is why I was using critical hit cards for color, and the dice-rolling chart for final effects. I have no qualms adjusting how I play; I just need some guidance on the proper procedure.

    Now, about those parachutes …???

    Dave, thanks for the clarification on NML.

  30. #330

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The Boom card - using the critical hit deck.
    As it stands on the explosion card only we pull a critical hit card - red means dead and that's it. Green means you survive and we should then roll the dice to see what damage they took..whilst it certainly adds colour to the game some are thinking it's a little too deadly & would rather roll for pilots/crew as the odds are they will survive - I tend to agree with this and ask whether we should change back to rolling for boom card results, or not , as the case may be. (Should we change I will not be going back reviving lost pilots & crew !)
    A simple yea or nay from the pilots will be sufficient to decide - Yea for change - Nay to leave as is. Majority rules !
    OK, this is my fault, cause I don't like the fatality rate on the Boom Card in a Campaign. However, I do like the colour (sort of) for writing up AARs. So, in the moment, I draw a Critical Hit card and record the result, but at the end of the game, I roll for disposition. If the pilot survival roll (including the -3 for the explosion) results in a pilot surviving, that is what I write into the AAR, using the result from the Critical Hit card to describe the event (well, so far, I haven't drawn a card that was completely unsurvivable, yet. Well, perhaps with sufficient writing skill, the most fatal incident could be survived?).

    However, if the results of a Boom Card and Critical Hit card will be applied without modification, I will loose a lot of pilots. And the randomness of the Boom Card is indescrimenant, where rookies would probably be killed, some Aces should be able to survive. Oh, and there is blind, dumb luck. Collishaw had his joy stick shot through, and his plane flopped about the sky out of control. As it approached the ground, tumbling and spinning, it pancaked into the ground, destroying the plane. It managed to crash just behind friendly lines, and troops extricated him from the wreck. What should have been a fatal hit and crash, only bruising Collishaw.

    So, this is complicated, and situational. I vote for the rolls on the chart as the final disposition, as there is a favorable modifier for experienced pilots. And there is luck involved, too.

    Mike :-)

  31. #331

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    Dice rolling for me, for some reasons:
    1. Critical deck is brutal. The chances of survival are low (as it was historically, however...)
    2. The Blackronin's procedure is fun and fair. The chances differ depending where the shot down takes place.
    3. I love the moment between tossing a die and the result. It reveals the gambling man within me

  32. #332

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    As Sven states he doesn't play the critical hit deck - he clearly prefers rolling for the results - that, to me, makes it 4 for to 3 against at the moment.

  33. #333

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    It would be helpful if someone posts the sequence of events that occur when a boom card is drawn. I am a bit confused, because, if I understand correctly, there is a color mechanism with the critical hit cards that determines if a pilot survives, and there is a dice-rolloing mechanism that determines if the pilot survives, and if so, if injuries are sustained. The dice-rolling mechanism has modifiers if a boom card is drawn or if a pilot is wounded. This is why I was using critical hit cards for color, and the dice-rolling chart for final effects. I have no qualms adjusting how I play; I just need some guidance on the proper procedure..
    Eric, the rule is that on pulling the explosion card we should then pull a critical hit card - Red skull means the pilots are dead; Green skull means they survive. And that's it.

    Whilst the critical hits cards certainly add colour to the game some are thinking it's a little too deadly & would rather roll for pilots/crew as the odds are they will survive. So the question is simply do we change back to rolling for boom card results (as you are doing), or not.

    I don't mind which we do but I would like us all to do the same as it is fairer that way -

    Finally, if we do stick to the rule as it is, I've suggested that when we get a green skull we should then roll the dice to see what damage the pilots take otherwise they are walking away scot free with no wounds or penalties; realising, of course, that in doing that there is a further chance the pilots get killed but it was a boom card after all !

    Hope that clarifies it all !
    Last edited by flash; 07-17-2013 at 09:23.

  34. #334

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    As I have said previously, I'm quite happy either way. 4 to 3 looks as if we are on a roll!

    I was just reflecting on the fact that the "Boom" card has undergone a change of emphasis since the game was introduced.
    From the Rules as written, "Boom" is an explosion, to the maybe it is just some collective damage. Then a series of critical hit cards to see if the pilot might survive, and to add some flavour to the story line.
    This was followed by my attempt to make the cards statistically more accurate, by studying the percentage of pilots who actually survived a crash and adjusting the cards to reflect this. At this point I felt that I was being too soft with the original intention of the "Bang Card". Now we are saying that we should amend it further to see what happens if the pilot survives, which is actually a refinement that I would have liked to add myself, at one point.
    On reflection, this to my way of thinking is a step too far from the dice tower which we started with, however, and it would be far easier just to go along with Sven's dice rolls. It seems to give a fair result for all, and this is what I resorted to for my last sortie, with the result that all my boys got home in the end. I can't complain at that one. Thanks Sven.
    After hearing other peoples thoughts on this, I will get off the fence and come down on the side of the Dice Tower. for the remaining games.
    Rob.

  35. #335

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    So what every happened to the Over the Trenches: The Early Years? Did it get back-burnered until the Final Monthes is finished? I was just curious, in the back of my mind I always expected it to get started and day now.

  36. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by diceslinger View Post
    So what every happened to the Over the Trenches: The Early Years? Did it get back-burnered until the Final Monthes is finished? I was just curious, in the back of my mind I always expected it to get started and day now.
    I think we all found that we had plenty on just getting one AAr a month finished Shawn.
    No one actually said anything. It just seemed to die of apathy.
    I have my aircraft all ready, so am sure it will come about in due course.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Rob.
    Last edited by Flying Officer Kyte; 07-17-2013 at 08:26.

  37. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by diceslinger View Post
    So what every happened to the Over the Trenches: The Early Years? Did it get back-burnered until the Final Monthes is finished? I was just curious, in the back of my mind I always expected it to get started and day now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I think we all found that we had plenty on just getting one AAr a month finished Shawn.
    No one actually said anything. It just seemed to die of apathy.
    I have my aircraft all ready, so am sure it will come about in due course.
    Rob.
    I was under the impression that the decision was made to go late war instead of early when the last series came out, and that the intention was to do a early campaign next?

    In any event, yeah, one at a time is probably enough. I always hunger for more games/AAR's, but sometimes struggle with time.

    ...says the guy who volunteered to do AAR's for Bloody April as well...

  38. #338

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    I have not much early war planes.

    Had to play an early war campaign with cards only.

    Let's see where the late war campaign brings us.

    Those "really big" missions take their time and I'm happy that I've finished my WW II one (Midway Rising).



    We lost a few pilots in the first campaign and we'll lost pilots in this campaign.

    First one is already "official" jumped off.

  39. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    ...On reflection, this to my way of thinking is a step too far from the dice tower which we started with, however, and it would be far easier just to go along with Sven's dice rolls. It seems to give a fair result for all, and this is what I resorted to for my last sortie, with the result that all my boys got home in the end. I can't complain at that one. Thanks Sven.
    After hearing other peoples thoughts on this, I will get off the fence and come down on the side of the Dice Tower. for the remaining games.
    Rob.
    Sorry Rob, my comment was in response to Eric not your good self ! Muddled him with MoonSylver somehow ?!
    What you were doing differently was using the critical hits deck with all shoot downs rather than just the boom card draws therefore putting yourself at greater risk of losing pilots than you should be as ordinary shoot downs should be rolled for and are more likely to survive.

    My point about the green skull is it doesn't seem right that chaps walk away without a scratch having been shotdown on a boom card - they must be at risk of some injury - hence the suggestion that if we keep the current boom card method we roll for those that survive - unless the Blighters parachute out safely

    As for early war, the spreadsheets are ready - people have time to do a couple of AAR a month, take a look about the threads, it's just that some are into WW2 campaigns as well, or posting other stories or campaigns or rule developments ! I will remind all that when it started the OTT campaign was every two weeks until it was 'leaned out' for the summer holiday period; we just never reinstated the two week turnaround after that summer.
    Last edited by flash; 07-17-2013 at 09:54.

  40. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Sorry Rob, my comment was in response to Eric not your good self ! Muddled him with MoonSylver somehow ?!
    What you were doing was using the critical hits deck with all shoot downs rather than just the boom card draws therefore putting yourself at greater risk of losing pilots than you should be as they should be rolled for and are more likely to survive.

    My point about the green skull is it doesn't seem right that chaps walk away without a scratch having been shotdown on a boom card - they must be at risk of some injury - hence the suggestion that if we keep the current boom card method we roll for those that survive.
    I can see that. On the other hand, miraculous escapes did & should happen, which is why I like the Critical Hit deck in the first place...

    Only thing I wouldn't like on rolling dice even after drawing a green is that you've managed to cheat the reaper with a card draw, & then to have it taken away by a die roll killing you...

  41. #341

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I think we all found that we had plenty on just getting one AAr a month finished Shawn.
    No one actually said anything. It just seemed to die of apathy.
    I have my aircraft all ready, so am sure it will come about in due course.
    Apathy....the silent stalker of campaigns everywhere!

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    ...says the guy who volunteered to do AAR's for Bloody April as well...
    For which I am eternally grateful! I certainly don't mean to compete with OTT.

  42. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by diceslinger View Post
    For which I am eternally grateful! I certainly don't mean to compete with OTT.
    Nope, no competition. Just means I have to be more aggressive with using my free time effectively as possible. Good motivation & incentive.

  43. #343

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    First, once the final month campaign is over, if an early war one begins, I would enjoy participating. This has been quite fun and educational, and i feel like I am getting to know you folks by sharing in this.

    Second, I do not have an overriding preference as to how to handle boom cards. I am open to continue with what I have been doing - which has been out of ignorance and not preference - if I draw a boom card, I draw a critical hit card for flavor and roll to see final effects. If the group decides to go a different route, it will have my support. I trust you folks as being far more knowledgeable than I am concerning WWI aviation. The primary question I would ask is this, "What system will enhance everyone's game time and the sharing of stories via AAR's?" If it is the most realistic and historically accurate, fine. If it is some other system, fine. In the end, for me, it is about enjoying playing with you folks rather than the results of given missions or the tourney in general. If pushed to vote, I vote for what I have been doing because I am now familiar with it, and the results have been interesting enough to add to my narratives - so another vote for the dice, if I understand that correctly.

  44. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    I can see that. On the other hand, miraculous escapes did & should happen, which is why I like the Critical Hit deck in the first place... Only thing I wouldn't like on rolling dice even after drawing a green is that you've managed to cheat the reaper with a card draw, & then to have it taken away by a die roll killing you...
    Agreed miraculous escapes did happen but not every time as the case is here and if they do die on the roll then c'est le Guerre - it is a critical hit/crash after all !

  45. #345

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    As I understood it originally, The early war was going to kick off in May running in tandem with the current scenarios, and that was the reason for keeping to one a month. Just proves how one can get the wrong end of the stick.
    It is, however good to have time to write up other missions than OTT, as it gives a chance to use other models and periods of the war as well.
    The Early War should lend itself to smaller actions to relieve some of these lengthy late war games a bit.
    Rob.

  46. #346

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Agreed miraculous escapes did happen but not every time as the case is here and if they do die on the roll then c'est le Guerre - it is a critical hit/crash after all !
    But what I'm saying is: on the Critical hit draw, the odds are you WON'T survive any way. If you DO get lucky & draw a Green card, with a further die roll added on for DEATH or injury, now your miraculous escape wasn't so miraculous after all...

    I could see a roll for injury possibly, but it wouldn't seen right to me to rob someone of a lucky draw for survival with an unlucky die roll.

  47. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    But what I'm saying is: on the Critical hit draw, the odds are you WON'T survive any way. If you DO get lucky & draw a Green card, with a further die roll added on for DEATH or injury, now your miraculous escape wasn't so miraculous after all...
    I could see a roll for injury possibly, but it wouldn't seen right to me to rob someone of a lucky draw for survival with an unlucky die roll.
    Yeah, I did get THAT...!

  48. #348

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Yeah, I did get THAT...!
    Sorry. Not sure what the point of contention was then. My apologies.

  49. #349

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    Sorry. Not sure what the point of contention was then. My apologies.
    The main point of contention Rob, is which of you two is going to get my next G&T in. My glass is nearly empty!
    Kyte.

  50. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    The main point of contention Rob, is which of you two is going to get my next G&T in. My glass is nearly empty!
    Kyte.
    Can't have you suffering from empty glass syndrome too!

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