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Thread: "Series 5" Update!

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick57 View Post
    To whom this may concern:
    ...
    Respectfully Yours,
    Rick
    Rick, if you're looking for only the "official" word, your best bet is probably the company site:
    http://www.aresgames.eu/upcoming-products
    I believe they also have a facebook page, if that's your taste and times being what they are...

  2. #52

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    Thanks Rob and Todd.

    Patience is golden.


  3. #53

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    OK, with you guys having the same avatar, it's like reading a conservation with Rosencrantz and Gildenstern (Hamlet).
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    OK, with you guys having the same avatar, it's like reading a conservation with Rosencrantz and Gildenstern (Hamlet).
    Karl
    Made me laugh karl.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #55

    Default A minor change

    A new T card deck... possibly a U (enlarged G) card deck... and a few tweaks to the aircraft in the "Immelman" pack.

    Current Decks:
    Slow Base Deck G (Fokker E.IV, DH2, Halberstadt D.III)
    R + a little agile (Nieuport 16)
    P + a little more agile (Fokker E.III)
    E + somewhat agile (Nieuport 11, SS D.I)

    From Andrea:
    Now, as you know the lenght of the arrows on the maneuvre cards has been fixed with a very simplified criteria - on the top speed of the planes. Here the list, with the relative decks:

    Very very slow speed (straight is 40% of the card) 121-140 km/h, XA XD

    Very slow (50%) 141->160 km/h, E G P R XB XC

    Slow (60%) 161->180 km/h, D I J K

    Average (80%) 181->200 km/h, B C F H L M O Q S

    High (100%) 201 or more, A N

    Names are a bit different from yours - they are just the ones I used in internal work with Nexus for Famous Aces and then extended, but this is not relevant of course.

    XA, XB and XC are shortened to match the longer airplane card/base. I would not use them for regular plane card since curves are distorted and lenghts do not really match the ranges.

    Sometime we simplified and put planes that were just near to the limit of a range in the nearest one - Sopwith Camel has been put in the same speed range than the Dr.I, the E.IV (even because of its maneuvrability problems) in the same range of the E.III. But in the future I'd rather correct that in the future, putting them back in their real ranges.

    Another note: backs have been made identical so that you can make decks mixing the cards from different ones. This can help designing brand new decks if you need. You did a great job with the actual maneuvre decks, but let's see what can be done with the freedom to make new ones.
    So this was your suggestion:
    G - E.IV - the worst of the bunch.
    R - E.III and Morane N - better than an E-IV, but that's not saying much
    P - DH-2, N-16 and Halberstadt. The Halberstadt was regarded at better than an E-III and as with the DH-2, soldiered on for some time.
    E -The N-11 and SS d.1 (NO CHANGE) as they had better manouverability than the rest.

    This is what I would do instead:

    G (or enlarged G) - E.IV - the worst of the bunch.
    T (G with non-steep sideslips, or R without 2 sideslips) - E.III and Morane N

    P - DH-2 and Halberstadt.

    R - Nieuport Ni.16 (NO CHANGE) and SS D.1.

    E -The N-11


    The new maneuvrability for E.III, Morane Saulnier N, Airco DH2 and Halberstadt D.III can be used for the new line of miniatures on the spot. I am writing to Ares today to give them these updated guidelines.


    The other planes can be further investigated - these are not to be reprinted very soon.


    Thanks again for all your assistence, and all the best!
    Today, as I told you, I would put the E.IV in the 60% speed range (161/180 km/h). It will then have a new deck, then, that could be a G scaled up to 60% - or, if you prefer to see it from another point of view, a basic S penalized with one "steep" symbol on a right sideslip and another on a left one. Notice that higher speed can be an advantage, but it also mean less agility - turning ranges with the standard 60° turns increase. In the meantime, players wanting to use existing decks can go on using the G one.

    That it would probably be the perfect one even in the future for the experimental 3 machineguns E.IV, if we want to make an exception and consider the additional weapon in the manoeuvre deck choice.

    The wing loading and power-to-weight ratio, both similar for the E.III and Morane Saulnier N (both a bit higher for the Morane, let's say again compensating them) support the idea to give both the same deck. If your intention is to have it better than the G of the E.IV but worse than the Ni.16, I would probably create a new deck. I'd say a very standard deck - let's call it T - that is a G with no restrictions on the sideslip, or if you prefer a R without the third sideslip on each side, or if you prefer a shortened S. It seems to me the best way to accept your suggestions without giving up the idea to keep the R for "not well developed Nieuports" that you still find more maneuvrable than the monoplanes, but that I prefer not to have the broad sideslip. Besides, a T deck made in that way is more clearly worse than the P, fort the reason I was saying at the start of the email.

    Attachment showing manoeuvre decks:

    complete maneuvres for Zoe.doc
    Last edited by Zoe Brain; 02-20-2012 at 04:10.

  6. #56

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    Power to the People! Right on Sista!
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  7. #57

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    Am I reading this part correct:

    Sometime we simplified and put planes that were just near to the limit of a range in the nearest one - Sopwith Camel has been put in the same speed range than the Dr.I, the E.IV (even because of its maneuvrability problems) in the same range of the E.III. But in the future I'd rather correct that in the future, putting them back in their real ranges.
    The Camel will be slowed down to match the Dr.I now??

  8. #58

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    The new E-IV "extended G" deck is basically the unofficial rules committee's J* deck, only making one of the two remaining sideslips on each side steep. This new (provisionally allocated to "U") deck will replace our J* deck.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    The Camel will be slowed down to match the Dr.I now??
    I don't know. Re-prints of existing planes will be "not soon".

  10. #60

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    Yes, I noted the "not soon" remark. What strikes me more is that he says he is contacting Ares "today" (not knowing the date of the email) about the changes to the supposed to be out in May Series 5 planes. Seems like cutting it close for a product that only has 2.5~3 months before it is supposed to be on the shelves.

  11. #61

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    It all seems very enigmatic to me Zoe. We have certainly made our point, but to what effect can only be seen when the cloth is removed. It should keep this debate alive for some time to come. Hopefully just about 3 months.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  12. #62

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    "Today" means today. I relayed this info within 30 mins of receiving the e-mail

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Am I reading this part correct:


    The Camel will be slowed down to match the Dr.I now??
    I'm really curious about that too. The Camel was clearly stated as being unable to keep up with it's contemporaries (most of the other planes in it's speed class), excepting the Dr.1, but putting it in the same speed bracket as the Dr.1 would mean it couldn't overtake that pane either. The difficulties of simplification...

  14. #64

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    I've personally always thought the Dr.I was a little to slow. The best option would be a new, slightly increased speed deck for the DR.I, but still slower then the Camel.

  15. #65

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    I got a chill running down my leg and at my age I don't kwon what to think until I look. They can't come soon enough.

  16. #66

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    with all these new decks coming about what is gonna happen to the old decks.. seems like the J deck is getting some revamping and I'm all for that, I have felt the J is rather limited.. I think most of these planes have been really.. will we be using a new deck for all these planes or shall we continue to use our old stand bys... just kinda curious here..

  17. #67

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    Having invested my money in over 130 decks, many of which were bought as extras for Skytex or other non Nexus aircraft, you can guess which way I'm going to jump. Some of the committee's amendments only mean amending the deck for a plane or at worst buying one of the new ones for a single model, but where it means purchasing say 30 new decks for all the Camels it's a non starter.
    I have been down this route with Games Workshop and it is not going to happen again.
    I have all I need to play the game now with the current rules.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #68

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    This problem could have been alleviated long ago with the approach I took to the _Crimson Skies_ crossover: *One* manuever deck, containing all possible maneuvers; plane stats which restrict the plane to a subset thereof.

    And the words "design by committee" -- need I say more?

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Note to self: Do not play Series 5 on anything bigger than a clipboard....
    I agree Chris had a few games with early war types, one WoW mat is big enough

  20. #70

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    I have a collction of over 200 planes, of which roughly 33% are official models.
    The rest I have bought extra decks or printed off from the files.
    No way am I buying new decks to cover the ones being changed Im afraid.
    Whats going to happen to the boosters already released etc, for example the Immelamnn booster has G for Halbs & DH2, yet it seems they now going to be P so thats most of that booster a waste of rations now( yes I now that it has 2 P decks in it as I bought a few sets for extra G decks, Im talking about the aircraft cards).
    Im all for the rules commite making things more accurate and it seems Aries is listening to the punters, but for me the practicality of it seems a bit harsh. I did expect the current official kit to be left alone and new stuff to be done more in line with the thinking.
    If these changes occur I dont think Aries will be posting a file for existing decks to be upgraded and a re-buy to cover all my collection is a no go
    Just my 2d
    Keep up the work Rules commitee this is nothing to do with your excellent work

  21. #71

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    purchasing say 30 new decks for all the Camels
    Wholesale changes to existing aircraft are certainly not going to win Ares any friends. I'm a bit more relaxed about the aircraft that haven't been released as models yet, but I'm dead against mucking about with those that have, and with amending existing decks (other than leaving out a few cards). We need to remember that WoW actually only has a passing resemblance to reality - making changes that will hack off the existing customer base for what may be a fairly tenuous benefit in terms of "realism" is probably not a good idea. We certainly don't want to end up like the followers of DBA, where the current "debates" about v2.2 and v3.0 are likely to result in a schism (akin to the "AK-47 Classic" vs. "AK 47 Reloaded" issue).

    Also, as I recall, there were comments from Ares from the outset that the new version and the old would be 100% compatible, and that players with old kit would be able to use their stuff with the new. if there's a risk, for example, of old Camels being different from the new........

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boney10 View Post
    Whats going to happen to the boosters already released etc, for example the Immelamnn booster has G for Halbs & DH2, yet it seems they now going to be P so thats most of that booster a waste of rations now( yes I now that it has 2 P decks in it as I bought a few sets for extra G decks, Im talking about the aircraft cards)
    Extra G decks?
    Convert them into T decks by carefully whiting out the "steep" on 1 of the sideslips each side.
    So they're good for Morane N's and Fokker E-IIIs.

    Similarly the aircraft cards - alter P to T, alter G to P (except for the E-IV).

    Personally, I think that may be the last of the changes, though a U deck would be handy.

    This was the only major "our enjoyment of the game suffers because of it" issue we detected.

    Here's all the official early-war aircraft available as cards:

    Fokker E-IV 3-gun : UNCHANGED
    Fokker E-IV 2-gun : Change from P to U, maybe, in future, but use G for now.
    *Fokker E-III : P->G
    *Morane N : P->G
    *DH-2 : G->P
    *Halberstadt D.I : G->P
    SSW D.I : E->R

    Those marked as * will be made available as models.

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Also, as I recall, there were comments from Ares from the outset that the new version and the old would be 100% compatible, and that players with old kit would be able to use their stuff with the new. if there's a risk, for example, of old Camels being different from the new........
    I might support an "Optional Variant Deck" for the more hardcore, along with several other decks for differently-engined models. (Say, a POS Liberty-powered DH4 where most of the engine's power is eaten by its great weight.) Operative word in deck-revisions being "Optional Variant"...

  24. #74

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    But it's so hard with that plastic burning my butt.

  25. #75

    Exclamation Early war Manouver Deck comparison

    G'day All. In view of the above discussion I thought you might like to peruse the attached Manouver Deck comparisons.

    I found it very interesting that Andrea mentioned the "Speed" of the XA, XB & XC decks were adjusted down to allow for the Larger Aircraft Cards that the Bombers will use.

    This reinforces my thoughts that the Gunbus & BE2c need a Deck upgrade as their % of movement using the XC deck is too slow in comparison to the P & K Decks.
    They should at least get the XD Deck in MHO.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGF Early War Deck comparison.jpg  Views: 164  Size: 112.1 KB  ID: 34663" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    Last edited by gully_raker; 02-25-2012 at 14:39. Reason: correction adding XA & XC decks to "Skewed decks!

  26. #76

  27. #77

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    Yep, just one or two quarters off!

  28. #78

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    Oooo! John stop doing this. Just when I thought I had the tremors under control.
    Pass the dried frog pills Kyte.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  29. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Pass the dried frog pills Kyte.
    Rob.
    LOL!

    Oook.

    Read some Terry Pratchett if you don't understand. You'll be glad you did.

  30. #80

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    John Great picture. I almost cryed when I saw that photo. OH THE HUMANITY.

  31. #81

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    This is the first I've seen of Series 1 reprints. Not real sure but they appear to be:
    Sopwith Camel - Stackard of 9 Naval Squadron
    Sopwith Camel - One captured by Germans?
    Fokker Dr 1 - Udet of Jasta 4
    SPAD XIII - Madon of SPA38
    Albatros DV - ?
    Albatros DV - ?

    Can anyone else identify them?

  32. #82

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    Got 2 words for that pic if it's genuine... SEXUAL CHOCOLATE!

    I better get saving.

  33. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by HTRAINo View Post
    Got 2 words for that pic if it's genuine... SEXUAL CHOCOLATE!
    I admit that I have AMCO. It sounds like you need a whole different clinic for THAT affliction...

    I really like this picture - I'd like more, please.

  34. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coog View Post
    This is the first I've seen of Series 1 reprints. Not real sure but they appear to be:
    Sopwith Camel - Stackard of 9 Naval Squadron
    Sopwith Camel - One captured by Germans?
    Fokker Dr 1 - Udet of Jasta 4
    SPAD XIII - Madon of SPA38
    Albatros DV - ?
    Albatros DV - ?

    Can anyone else identify them?
    What you should have there Bobby is as you say, plus Spad Coadou, Albs. von Hipple and Jacobs, Dr I. Kirschten and Lothar von R. The captured Camel is Kissenberth if the original info is still correct.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  35. #85

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    Note that there is not an Udet Dr.I coming. It's Kirschten's plane you seen in that photo... which Udet later flew and put the red LO! on the side of it.

  36. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Note that there is not an Udet Dr.I coming. It's Kirschten's plane you seen in that photo... which Udet later flew and put the red LO! on the side of it.
    Sorry I should have spotted that Herr Oberst.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  37. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    Extra G decks?
    Yes extra G decks, I have bought some Skytrex & Shapeways DH2 & Halberstats which were G Deck so I got extra Immelamn packs for the G decks

  38. #88

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    I agree with Barry about the using of the XD deck for all the slow types such as the Vickers gunbus BE2c and others for the whole of 1915 period. At least that's we will be doing at the club. In no way am I degrading the work of the Committee they have my full support but after what Andree has said, the comes a point where we have to run with what we have got and I think now is the time to do just that!
    Last edited by Doug; 02-29-2012 at 02:19.

  39. #89

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    If you look at the tool we used to determine which decks to use - it's at http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...do=file&id=959

    You'll see:
    201+ - Very fast - A, N - 6cm
    181-200 - Fast - B, C, F, H, L, M, O, Q, S - 4.7cm
    161-180 - Average - D, I, J, K - 3.5 cm
    141-160 - Slow - E, G, P, R - 2.9 cm
    130-140 - Very slow - XD - 2.3 cm
    100-130 - Sluggish - XB, XC - 2 cm
    <100 - Pedestrian - XA - 1.2 cm

    There isn't a lot of difference between XC,XB,XD - a total of less than 1cm over a 3-card move (of 24 to 24.9cm)

    None of our sources had a Gunbus flying at even 120 kph. let alone 130 kph.

    Time to get out our measuring sticks, to see just how long the arrows are on the XA, XB, XC, or XD decks. Andreas's remarks were based on the incorrect assumption that all aircraft using the XA and XD decks have longer bases.
    Last edited by Zoe Brain; 02-29-2012 at 03:22.

  40. #90

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    I only own the revised set and just over a dozen extra planes, so XA, XB, XC etc are fairly alien to me.

    Hopefully the compatability won't suffer, and I am curious as to how the finished bases will look? The Gotha ones look kinda chunky (and dusty in the pic???) and although these may be prototypes painted up, they don't seem to display the arcs.

    I am just hoping that they don't try and change them drastically.

    Still, very juicy pic... keep 'em comin!

  41. #91

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    This may be of minor interest, but I've been email chatting with Ares and asked about the dreaded Kissenberth Camel. It seems it is too late in the day to change the scheme, so we are stuck with that.


    However...


    Ares plan a regular reissue of models and it would appear that the Kissenberth will not survive past the first "print run", and is likely to be replaced with something more useful.

  42. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    This may be of minor interest, but I've been email chatting with Ares and asked about the dreaded Kissenberth Camel. It seems it is too late in the day to change the scheme, so we are stuck with that.


    However...


    Ares plan a regular reissue of models and it would appear that the Kissenberth will not survive past the first "print run", and is likely to be replaced with something more useful.
    So those of us with a need to own every plane ever issued had better make sure we get the first ones out then.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  43. #93

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    If it's not too late, I would urge Andrea and Ares to slip an Udet card in with the Kirschstein mini--both men used the exact same aircraft, the only change Udet made to Kirschstein's markings was to paint his girlfriend's name on the bird as well. Perhaps a decal for Udet's 'LO!' markings applied over K's zebra-stripes?

  44. #94

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    This is going to bee crazy. I hope they make a lot of planes for the first release because the pressure are built up now. Not only do I want the originals but also planes for repaint. My God , how should I explain this for my wife? Any suggestions?

  45. #95

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    Mikael use the excuse I use with mine. I am not our hitting bars and chasing women. Works for me.

  46. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
    This is going to bee crazy. I hope they make a lot of planes for the first release because the pressure are built up now. Not only do I want the originals but also planes for repaint. My God , how should I explain this for my wife? Any suggestions?
    Somewhere on here Mikael is a whole thread on how to smuggle aircraft past SWMBO.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  47. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    Mikael use the excuse I use with mine. I am not our hitting bars and chasing women. Works for me.
    That argument works only for myself when I want to buy an extra airplane "I can buy only this one if I only drink one beer at the pub next time), but to be honest I have lost that kind of argument with my wife before "You are lucky woman that you married me, I could have done much worse so let me buy some hobbystuff". No I have to go the other way around and spoil her for a while and then explain for her about the little qute airplanes of WWI and then she will let me buy them. Maybe just out of boredome. So no time to lose then, let´s start to spoil our girlfriends and wifes right away!!! I couldn´t see this one coming when I started out with WoW. Indeed WoG makes marvels with my sociallife

  48. #98

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    I agree about the whole 'spoil her first' mentality, as it does work.

    Found a nice pic showing samples of the base arcs



    prob already on the forum somewhere?

  49. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by HTRAINo View Post
    Found a nice pic showing samples of the base arcs

    prob already on the forum somewhere?
    I don´t care because the Caproni looks so good. I have preordered two Gothas, but still one caproni or two would be great

  50. #100

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    BobP,
    You are a real man of genius. I use the same line.

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