Campaign idea: What if war had broken out in 1938?

[MrWibbles]

Here's something I'd like to explore in greater depth with WOW.... a campaign centered around an alternative history "What if?". Let's assume that Britain and France had intervened much earlier against Hitler and declared war a year earlier.

Certainly from the British perspective, things get interesting with the planes available at the time. Fighter command didn't have the Spitfire and the Hurricane was only just being introduced. Instead the Gloster Gladiator and Hawker Fury would have borne the brunt of taking on the Luftwaffe who fare much better in comparison with early versions of the BF109 being in service.

When it comes to bombers, the Fairey Hendon and Handley Page Heyford were still in service and their slow speed and poor defensive armament would have made them easy prey for the German fighters.

From the German perspective, it would be interesting to see the HE-51 biplane fighter taking on Hawker Hind light bombers and their Fury escorts. Or a flight of Henschel 123's en route to attack ground positions being intercepted by a patrol of Gladiators.

By simply moving the start of the war back by a year, you would have a very different air war where biplanes, certainly from the RAF perspective at least, would have been used in much larger numbers.

What are your thoughts chaps?

[Baldrick62]

By simply moving the start of the war back by a year, you would have a very different air war where biplanes, certainly from the RAF perspective at least, would have been used in much larger numbers.

By moving the declaration of war back a year Nazi Germany's main enemy, and theatre of operations, would have been Czechoslovakia, a country which had mutual assistance treaties with both France and the Soviet Union. Neither the Munich Conference nor the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact would have been extant, and given previous antagonism, you could potentially have seen Germany, Poland and Hungary fighting the Czechs and Soviets, which would have put both the British and French governments in an interesting situation! In 1939-40 the Germans made extensive use of the excellent equipment captured from the Czechs, who's country had been effectively made indefensible by the annexation of the Sudetenland, which housed the Czech border defence fortifications and much of its industrial production. The war memorial below Prague Castle has the dates '1938-45' on it; and doubtless the world we know would be a very different place if the west had become involved in 1938 rather than choosing appeasement, with Germany as unprepared as they were, and the Soviet Union in the middle of its military purges.

[MrWibbles]

Great post Baldrick... Interesting point regarding how the alliances would have been so different, I hadn't thought of that to be honest and that certainly does throw up some interesting "what ifs". I was looking at it from the point of view of Britain and France going to war to protect Czechoslovakia. Either way, with the planes around at the time, it would sure make for some interesting dogfights from a WOW perspective.

As an aside, it seemed that the Hawker Fury did see some limited action in the European theatre during 1940 with the Belgian air force. Apparently one even managed to down a BF109!

[Ranger]

Don't forget that the Czechs also had a defensive alliance with Yugoslavia, which thanks to the annexation of Austria, also had a common border with Germany. So, you could easily have had a German-Hungarian alliance against a Czech-Yugo-Franco-British alliance, with French and British air units operating out of Yugoslavia.

Just an idea.

[Nightbomber]

Interesting thread, Steve. I like what if scenarios very much, especially when it comes to WWII. Mostly because in almost all of them my home country had a greater chance of survival.
I like the way your imagination works.
If you would like to push the history mark of pre war conflicts even more backwards, you would have known, that right after Hitler's came to power, our country leader Piłsudski offered France a joint preemptive strike on Germany from East and West. He was kinda prophet, I swear. The offer was rejected however.
If you took planes of such a conflict to the skies, it would be even more curious.

[MrWibbles]

Exactly why I'm keen to explore it Andrzej, a very bizarre mix of planes would have been used in combat if war had broken out in 1938 or even earlier. The idea of a Franco-Polish pre-emptive strike on Germany sounds very intriguing - that would definitely be worth exploring. I know there are some French bomber cards in the files section so already, scenario ideas are starting to form. Unfortunately the Polish aircraft don't seem to be represented yet in card form - not that I can see anyway. In WOW games, it'd definitely be good to see the PZL P-37 Łoś going on the offensive - perhaps a daylight raid on Kiel escorted by a mixed flight of PZL P-7's and P-11's.

[Dan-Sam]

Is it true? Is there really thread about 1938? The August of 1938 and Munich Pact is still very hot topic here in the Czech Republic. I think every young man is asking himself "What if we fought?" My friends often talk about many alternatives, but I do not know that anyone outside of the central Europe may be interested in it. And I am really surprised that you know too much about it!
But back to the topic! If you want to play "What if" campaign, we must to create a card for Avia B-534. This plane was the top of Czech Air Force during 1938. There were some other planes on blueprints, but only this type was in service. Avia Bk-534 was the same type, but with cannon in the propeller axis. The next interesting type was Soviet SB-2 in Czechoslovak licence.
If anyone will try to make Avia's card, you can count with me!

Avia B-534


B-71

[Jager]

I recently finished the third book in Harry Turtledove's series of what-if on this very idea. Most of his speculations seemed reasonable or on the money, until Hess parachuted into Scotland, and convinces the Allies to stop the war on Germany, and join Hitler in attacking Russia (which it already was along side Poland). Stopping a deadlocked war, I could see, but joining Hitler (after the Chamberlein government arranges for the accident/assassination of Churchill!), was too far out left field for me.
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/hitlerswar.html
Karl

[Nightbomber]

Dan-Sam - great you are back in the Drome. I must tell you I've started to miss you Chap!
Well, Avia you mentioned was one of the first models I made myself (Kovozavody Prostejov - model publisher from the 80-ies).
It is a plane really worth mention.
But if we go back to 1938 and the Munich shame, do you know, that those times Czechoslovak members of parliament deliberated about claiming of Polish-Czechoslovak common state to prevent Czechoslovak Republic from being occupied by he Reich? Your Parliament was about to vote for incorporation by Poland. Then we could have stood together against the nazi agressors. I do not know why it didn't happen. It would be a great idea, IMHO.

[MrWibbles]

The Avia B-534 is a rather beautiful looking plane, at first glance it looks like a Hawker Fury with a bit of Gloster Gladiator ruggedness added for good measure. To everyone who has responded to my suggestion with such brilliant ideas and suggestions - thank you ever so much. There are lots of mouth watering possibilities to explore with a 1938 campaign not just with the variety of planes but also with the underlying alliances and who attacks who first etc.

I like the suggestion of a pre-emptive Franco-Polish strike perhaps in support of a threatened Czechoslovakia. I mentioned earlier about a Polish bombing raid on shipping at Kiel, another idea would be based on real life events and that was the abortive French offensive into the Saar region in September 1939 but moved back to 1938 and rather than being a minor incursion, I envisage it as a major offensive.

[Dan-Sam]

Glad to be back, trust me. I had a hard time, because I was preparing an "afterparty" for Czech members of International Service Team from Jamboree.
Yes, I remember this "marking". Ma grandfather started his career in Prostejov and my mother was born there
I do not know about this incorporation, it is interesting. Poland was our second closest ally (from our neighbours, the first was Romania which was part of Little Entente, but boarders with Romania was short), but there was not a political will to do something like this (I think the problem was in Cieszyn Silesia, the same problem as in 1918-1920). But back to the main topic - Poland and Romania were only two states where we did not to build our border fortifications. From the military point of view, this situations would not be ideal - the Czechoslovakia was optimaly defended by boarder mountains and Poland is mostly lowland. I will write something more about the defense plan to Steve. And, of course, Poland was the first destination of our pilots who escaped from Protectorate to fight with Nazis.

[Dan-Sam]

There are many types of B-534. The first version had an open cockpit, the last had aerodynamic wheel covers (but their use was prohibited on the airport field, becouse mud clogged covers and block the wheels => aircraft fell on its propeller). By the way, B-534 was the last biplane with fixed landing gear which shoot down an enemy (during Slovak National Uprising).
And now to the Czechoslovak strategy. Our government has relied on the treaty of alliance with Great Britain and, most of all, with France. Czech engineers build border fortifications which was based on the french model, but improved (hygiene, gates to the object was situated to the inland and fire sectors to the sides that every object could cover the next one, artillery could never threaten the object with direct fire, becouse there are only ground and front wall to the enemy). The defence plan was simply - hold off the enemy until reinforcements arrive. The first defence line should be on the border in light and heavy fortifications (largely built), the next in light fortifications on the Vltava river and in the Prague (never built). The third line of defence should be in Czech-Moravian Highlands (I live there; the General Staff was near the city of Vyškov that generals was still in safe. The fourth line of defence was on the Czech and Slovak boarders in Bílé Karpaty Mountains. The last line of defensing strategy was retreat to Tatra Mountains and hold them until allies (French od Soviets) arrive. The most important result is that Czechoslovakia could not defend itself (the boarders with Nazi Germany [and with anschlussed Austria and hostile Hungary] was just too long, look at the map) and relied on allies.

[Ranger]

Also, Romania was part of the Little Entant with Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. And of course the Hungarians have territorial claims against all three of those cuntries in 1938. So, if you just focused on a German-Hungarian alliance against the Czechs, you could get a total of 4 different combat theaters for air action.

The "Central" front, with Czechs vs. Germans (with some Hungarian support).

The "Southern" front with Hungarian (with some German support) against Yugoslav and Romanians.

The "Western" front with French and British units flying against the Germans.

The "Northern" front, with British aircraft flying against targets in Northern Germany, and maybe even some British carrier based operations against the German naval bases.

And you've still got the Poles and the Soviets as wildcards to think about.

[MrWibbles]

I've started work on my first ever WOW plane card, the Czech Avia B-534 fighter. I've used a bit of guess work for the manuever deck - I've used L which is also used by the Fiat CR32 and have upped the damage by 1 to 15 as the Avia looks to be a much more rugged bird than the CR32.

I need some help though with suggested damage counters please.... Daniel - what would your suggestion be?

[Nightbomber]

Steve! A truly brilliant work of yours! I must say with such graphic performance you're gonna be as famous here as Max Headroom is

[Dan-Sam]

Outstanding job Steve! I will help you with counters, but, please, wait until tommorow evening - I am here only via my mobil phone now. I think it will be easy job. Thank you!

[MrWibbles]

Thanks guys.... glad you like the old bird. Once I've finished off the Avia and have uploaded the full size image in to the files section, I'm probably going to tackle the PZL-11 as my next project. Regarding Max Headroom - his creations are totally amazing and seeing his work has really inspired me to tackle some planes. I'm going to focus my efforts on the early planes particularly the more unusual or lesser known aircraft.

[Jager]

.

I need some help though with suggested damage counters please.... Daniel - what would your suggestion be?

With 4 LMGs, it should be B at short and A at long.
Nice looking card, BTW>
Karl

[MrWibbles]

Thanks Karl for the advice regarding the B-534 damage. Glad you like the card.

Another draft card I've done tonight, the Polish PZL P-11c. Not sure at this stage what manuever deck to use or what damage. Any suggestions? Hopefully the finished planes will be uploaded over the weekend if anyone wants to take them for a spin.

[MrWibbles]

Finally (for now at least) my PZL-P23 Karaś. I'm fairly confident that the stats are a fair reflection of the plane's performance. I don't believe that it was particularly well armoured so this is why it's got less damage points than a Stuka.



Once I've got the missing stats for the other planes, full sized versions of the three I've done will be uploaded to the Files section.

[MrWibbles]

Another complete one - the PZL 37 medium bomber. I think the stats I've given it are a fair reflection of the plane's performance. The full sized version will be available from the Files section soon.



Well, now I've got some planes sorted, I guess the next step is to come up with some scenarios.

[Max Headroom]

I am liking you graphics very much Mr. Wibbles! You look quite capable with your outstanding cards... I'm all for file sharing so if you need some layered psd's of planes gimme a PM and I'll email you what you might need. Re. damage/guns you will find threads to this but this is roughly how it works:
1-2 x 7.9mm or 1 x 13mm = A
4 x 7.9mm or 2 x 13mm = B
1 x 20mm = C
1x 30mm = D
long range D is C, long C is B, long B is A, long A is often (but not always) nothing.

[MrWibbles]

@Mr Headroom - Firstly, thank you so much for the kind feedback, coming from a talented artist as yourself is praise indeed and quite humbling Also thank you for the stats regarding damage. I haven't found the associated thread for this yet (still finding my way around the place) so you kindly summarising the stats on this thread is a huge help.

[Nightbomber]

Steve, let me express myself in points, for this is kinda soldiers' talk, Lieutenant:
1. You have a puredeadly avatar.
2. Your artwork kick's a..
3. You deserve a fast promotion.
Hommage, Sir.

[Jager]

Nice work, Steve. With all these artist coming out with cards, there'll be nothing teft to do when I finally get around to learning myself
For manuver decks, I'm not very familliar with DOW yet, but for damage, I can reference some of the other games I have to do a comparison, if you'd like.
Karl

[Max Headroom]

Have a quick look at my tutorial Wibbles for creating an image from b/w plan drawing for making all the planes in this post...

[MrWibbles]

Steve, let me express myself in points, for this is kinda soldiers' talk, Lieutenant:
1. You have a puredeadly avatar.
2. Your artwork kick's a..
3. You deserve a fast promotion.
Hommage, Sir.

Thank you Sir, very nice of you to say Captain.

It remains to see whether my avatar is as deadly as it looks - I'll find out soon enough when I play test it. Once the cards have been printed off, I'm going to test out the PZL 37 on a mission to take out German troops and light armour advancing on a strategic bridge. I'm going to have a couple of PZL P-11c's along just in case of any opposition.

[MrWibbles]

Latest in my series of War in '38 planes.... The RAF's Hawker Fury in 1938 camoflage.



If anyone fancies trying the planes out, I've created a Plane Cards section under my profile. The only one that isn't there yet is the PZL-11c

[Dan-Sam]

4 x 7.9mm or 2 x 13mm = B
1 x 20mm = C
1x 30mm = D
long range D is C, long C is B, long B is A, long A is often (but not always) nothing.

Max and Karl are right. This version of Avia (covered cockpit and two-blade propeller "Letov") had 4 7,92 mm machineguns. The answer is B/A (close/long).
The Avia card is the best for reconnaissance missions in border mountains. Police had several Avias for breaking German reconnaissance flights. The police Avia had a special marking too with another coat of arms. But I am sure soldiers fight agains reconnaissance planes itself too. if someone wants, I can help with materials for recoinnassance target (border fortifications, railway stations,...)


Gendarmerie Avia (CLH Hradec Kralove) (CLH = gendarmerie patrol aircraft)

[MrWibbles]

Thanks guys for your help and input regarding the stats. All the planes I've done so far are in my album. Next plane card to follow is the Fairey Battle in RAF markings (initially at least but I may do a Belgian version if people need one). After that I'm hoping to get a Dewoitine 510 fighter done. That plane I'm going to do in a variety of different markings (French, Republican Spanish and Chinese) to cater for those who are interested in Spanish Civil War or the Sino-Japanese conflict.

Regarding a planned 1938 campaign, we'll soon have enough variety of planes to be able to come up with loads of scenarios. Regarding the planes, if after play-testing anyone feels I haven't got the stats quite right then let me know. I've got all the planes saved as layered PSD files so I can easily make adjustments to the cards if needed.

[flash]

Fascinating thread Steve - good work on the cards.
Loving the 1938 theme - would the Germans still have been committed in Spain at this time? That may have brought some further complications to the political situation esp in the Med.
If you really want to throw a large spanner into the special relationship with our cousins across the pond the same time frame could incorporate War Plan Red aka the Atlantic Strategic War Plan, ie the US plan to make war with the British Empire !! Canada would have borne the brunt but it may give you some options of other aircraft types !

[MrWibbles]

Hi Dave, thanks for your kind comments. Glad you like the War in 38 cards and the general idea behind this campaign suggestion. I saw a documentary recently about Plan Red - very fascinating and a bit of an eye opener as to how finely balanced some of the relationships between countries were post WWI. Definitely a WOW campaign there I think.

Regarding War in 38, I've got the Fairey Battle done now:



The full size version will be uploaded to my album shortly if anyone fancies trying one out.

[csadn]

Loving the 1938 theme - would the Germans still have been committed in Spain at this time? That may have brought some further complications to the political situation esp in the Med.

Very much so -- the Nationalist main offensive of that year only took place in March/April; and the Republicans managed to throw together an offensive in July. The Republican offensive failed, in the main, due to the Munich Conference; when the Republicans realized no one was going to stand with them against Germany (and thus the Nationalists), morale collapsed, and shortly thereafter so did the Republican armies. Eliminate the Munich conference, and Germany has a problem -- their Navy is even weaker than it was in '39; the West (Britain and France) can easily cut German supply lines to Spain, while at the same time "jailing" the German Navy the same way as in WW1.

The real problem I see with the alts suggested is: Czechoslovakia is landlocked -- where are the British and French going to go to directly support it? The Black Sea nations are foreclosed; Turkey controls the only access point (the Dardanelles), and if they decide "no combatants may pass", well, they can (and did) enforce that). The "allies" mentioned, to put it politely, aren't very reliable; and the terrain doesn't lend itself to decisive military action (all those mountains and river valleys, with all those narrow roads and bridges -- can you say "channelizing"?). The simple fact is: Munich was inevitable, because the West could read a map -- they could have all the treaties with the Czechs, the Poles, and so on, they wanted; but there was simply no way to actually support anyone east of Germany.

If you want an *interesting* alt-hist campaign: Full Western support of the Republicans in Spain in '36 or '37 -- preferably *before* the Soviets get involved....

[wargamer]

Problem that I see with this, is that without the Chamberlain Munich Pact, Hitler does not have the confidence of the generals, the extra vehicles to booster the panzer divisions that went into Poland, in fact is still generating the trainees to expand to the 50 infantry divisions. He has most of his pilots in Spain. So just who is going to be the enemy, it will probably not be the germans.

[MrWibbles]

Thanks for the points regarding the historical aspects of a 1938 campaign. Good point well made about Czechoslovakia being land locked. I would envisage a situation similar to what happened in 1939 ie the French (or a joint Anglo French endeavour) would launch a strike into Germany via the Saar region. The thinking behind this strategy is that Germany would think twice about being locked in a war on two fronts and would be forced to seek terms.

In my hypothetical campaign idea, I hadn't really envisaged the English and French forces being based in Czechoslovakia.

[Dan-Sam]

The real problem I see with the alts suggested is: Czechoslovakia is landlocked -- where are the British and French going to go to directly support it? The Black Sea nations are foreclosed; Turkey controls the only access point (the Dardanelles), and if they decide "no combatants may pass", well, they can (and did) enforce that). The "allies" mentioned, to put it politely, aren't very reliable; and the terrain doesn't lend itself to decisive military action (all those mountains and river valleys, with all those narrow roads and bridges -- can you say "channelizing"?). The simple fact is: Munich was inevitable, because the West could read a map -- they could have all the treaties with the Czechs, the Poles, and so on, they wanted; but there was simply no way to actually support anyone east of Germany.

The answer is simple: our generals counted with counterattack from France to Germany from the west side. French forces would tie German divisions and they could not intervene in Czechoslovakia.
But there is one big BUT: Czech strategy has mistake. We were building fortifications based on french Maginot Line style, but we did not count with it. Simply: When French Army built their Maginot Line, they did not have any reason to attack, because they thought they are safe. Safe of your own country is more important than treaty of alliance. Our mistake was reliance on allies who did not need to attack. simple, but flawed, assumption. It's a little clearer?

[MrWibbles]

As promised, some Dewoitine 510's have just rolled off the production line: Two French Air Force planes and, for those who are into the Sino Japanese air battles, one in Chinese markings....







The full size versions of these can be found in my album. Enjoy

[MrWibbles]

Regarding my next plane card(s), I'm open to suggestions - if anyone has got a 1938 era plane that they'd like to see represented then let me know.

[MrWibbles]

Earlier on I was reading up about the Les Mureaux 117 which was a French plane used in a ground attack/reconnaisance role. It packed a bit of a punch thanks to a 20mm Hispano nose cannon. It was still widely used by l'Armee de L'Air in 1940.

Rather inevitably I suppose, a War in 38 card had to follow for it....



As usual, the full size version can be found in my album (under my profile).

[csadn]

Problem that I see with this, is that without the Chamberlain Munich Pact, Hitler does not have the confidence of the generals, the extra vehicles to booster the panzer divisions that went into Poland, in fact is still generating the trainees to expand to the 50 infantry divisions. He has most of his pilots in Spain. So just who is going to be the enemy, it will probably not be the germans.

Ground forces are mainly Spanish -- both Nationalist and Republican -- with the obligatory odd-lots of foreign "volunteers"; the "allies" are supplying mainly air power. (Gee, does *that* sound vaguely familiar? >:) ) Also: The Republican territory at the start of the conflict fronted onto France, which gives their allies "free passage" of "volunteers" and supplies through the Pyrenees. Meanwhile, the Nationalists have to get everything -- and I mean *everything* -- by sea or air; and guess who controls the sea lanes, and can set up a blockade? (The program at the time was: Britain closes down the Channel and North Sea; France handles the Med.) That is, until Fascist Italy tries to help Fascist Germany punch through Democratic France's Med blockade (which is where the full-scale War begins).

The answer is simple: our generals counted with counterattack from France to Germany from the west side. French forces would tie German divisions and they could not intervene in Czechoslovakia.
But there is one big BUT: Czech strategy has mistake. We were building fortifications based on french Maginot Line style, but we did not count with it. Simply: When French Army built their Maginot Line, they did not have any reason to attack, because they thought they are safe. Safe of your own country is more important than treaty of alliance. Our mistake was reliance on allies who did not need to attack. simple, but flawed, assumption. It's a little clearer?

That's what I was saying: When it came down to it, France and Britain realized there was exactly zero they could do to support CZ if Germany invaded -- even opening a two-front war only barely worked the previous time (and that mainly because Germany had no access to deep water -- all its sea-lanes are controlled by the British Isles; and American intervention); thus, the Munich pact was inevitable.

[MrWibbles]

Guys, I hope you've enjoyed my customised cards so far - plenty more for this period to come in due course. I'm back at work now after a few days holiday so won't be able to produce them quite as quickly but rest assured they'll keep coming. I'm currently working on a card for the RAF's Handley Page Heyford bomber which I can't wait to playtest with a couple of Hawker Fury escorts to see how it fares.

A quick heads up regarding another series of cards I'm going to start shortly... These will be announced under a different thread and will be a series of cards for gamers wishing to recreate pre Battle of Britain scenarios. First planned releases will be Dutch cards including the twin boom Fokker G-1 heavy fighter.

[Jager]

A couple of late comments:
The Avia B534: Wiki says that some series had 2LMGs, some 4, so you'll have to research what mix was avalable in '38
The PZL P-11c had 1/3rd with 2 nose guns, and 2 wing guns, and 2/3rds with just the nose guns. Regardless (according to my souce) only 1 set could fire at a time so it's still A/A (just twice as much ammo for the lucky third).
The D510: I think you need to bump up the hits to 15 or 16. Also: with 1 cannon and 2 LMGs the attack should be C/B and A/A
The Fairly Battle attacks should be A/- and A/-, since both front and back are a single LMG.
Otherwise, the cards look great. Question: what are the K and L decks? I haven't run into them in DOW yet.
Great ideas for alterate pre-1939 actions.
Karl

[MrWibbles]

Karl: Thank you ever so much for the feedback regarding my cards and for the revisions to my suggested card stats. As I'm still quite new to the game, the suggestions and advice from seasoned battle hardened veteran's on here is invaluable and much appreciated.

One point regarding your comments, the single mg A/- stat surprised me, I hadn't figured that such lightly armed planes would not be able to fire at long range so thanks for making me aware.

Regarding your question, the K deck is used in Revolution In The Sky whilst the L deck is used in The Last Biplanes.

[Jager]

Well, all my posts on plane stas are my guesses, in this case based on the stats from 2 other aircraft games The Fighting Wings series by J.D.Webster, and Mustangs and Messerschmitts by R. (Rocky) Russo. The point about the single LMG having no long range is that the attack factor "A" is for 2 LMGs and long range is halved. Some As have a long range of A some do not. So I figure that if any don't, it would be the single LMG, which is already half the bullets as 2.
Karl

[MrWibbles]

Regarding the single mg long range point, on reflection I am going to leave it as A/A for the Fairey Battle. My reason being because the Ju87 only had a single mg at the rear but the damage on its card is A/A and the calibre is 7.92 mm similar to the 7.7mm Vickers K mg used by the Fairey Battle.

[Dan-Sam]

The Avia B534: Wiki says that some series had 2LMGs, some 4, so you'll have to research what mix was avalable in '38

It is correct, I am sure. Two machineguns (in fuselage of Avia) had only half of airplanes from the 1st series (registration numbers 47-101; 1-46 had 2 in fuselage and 2 in lower wings). This series (same as 2nd and 3rd) had open cockpit, but the plane from Steve's card had a lackable (enclosed) cockpit - it must be a plane from the 4th series. All Avia B-534, outside numbers 47-101 from the 1st series, had 4 guns.

[Jager]

Regarding the single mg long range point, on reflection I am going to leave it as A/A for the Fairey Battle. My reason being because the Ju87 only had a single mg at the rear but the damage on its card is A/A and the calibre is 7.92 mm similar to the 7.7mm Vickers K mg used by the Fairey Battle.

Yup, and the Val is the same. There you go then.
Karl

[MrWibbles]

Another plane for my War in '38 series of planes.... A Luftwaffe HE-51, this was a quick conversion from my Bulgarian HE-51 (see my Custom Cards thread). There will be a Handley Page Heyford in due course but at the moment, I'm concentrating on the smaller planes.

[Shivaja]

Reading all this another what if idea is coming to my mind what if The Hindenburg disaster did not happen on May 6, 1937 more exactly what if the Germans have cheap source helium and The Hindenburg was filed with helium for witch was originally constructed and helium become standard for airships for obvious safety reasons, would we see during the ww2 some sky giants like these

OR


I love to think yes and how would the pacific theater looked like if the waring sides have apart of the conventional fleet of aircraft carriers fleet of zeppelin aircraft carriers

[Baldrick62]

Wow Radek; now that's really thinking out of the box!
BofB