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Thread: Why was the Red Baron's Fokker Painted Red? : Decoding the Way Aeroplanes Were Painte

  1. #1

    Default Why was the Red Baron's Fokker Painted Red? : Decoding the Way Aeroplanes Were Painte

    http://wih.sagepub.com/content/8/3/323

    Decoding the Way Aeroplanes Were Painted in the First World War

  2. #2

    Thumbs up

    Not sure Zoe what he is trying to get across. Seems a bit esoteric to me

    From my reading, MvR first tried to paint his early Aircraft "Earthen" Colours for Camoflage but gave up on that & then decided to make a "statement" & used the Red so his kills could be easily confirmed by German Ground Forces, Artillery etc & then as he became more famous to try to scare the Allied Pilots.

  3. #3

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    Aircraft markings started as a result for the need, that German pilots had a greater likelyhood of being ID'ed so a claim could be given.

    Also many of the German pilots were transfered from Cavalry Regiments - which used their parent units facing colours on their aircraft and they were able to continue the Cavalry esprit de corps.

    Another point to also take into accoun t - MvR was not the first pilot to use an all red aircraft:

    Jean Navarre - Ni 11
    Ludwig Hanstein - Albatros DII
    Last edited by Beanie; 10-14-2011 at 01:33.

  4. #4

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    What these guys say in shed loads, plus if your plane was recognisable to your own side you wern't so likely to get the attention of your own Archie batterys. Also flight leaders needed to be easily identified to their patrols.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #5

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    I'm remembering that MvR said his modivation was to be recognised by the flyers he was leading, to better direct them. Maybe a secondary reason was for ID kills, and it would be impolite to record this.
    Karl
    Last edited by Jager; 10-17-2011 at 04:02. Reason: sp and sticky fingers
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #6

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    So eliminating the esoteric piled higher and deeper version, the consensus seems to be that the paint jobs were basically the first version of IFF?

    IFF Identification Friend or Foe
    Last edited by wargamer; 10-16-2011 at 12:51. Reason: clarification

  7. #7

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    It should also being taken into account that long before MvR joined Jasta 2, Jasta's 16b and 17 had already started to ID their aircraft.

  8. #8

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    I haven't heard that in a while Al. I use to work on those. The red would do that, but for AAA I've seen large red and white checkhered pattern covering the whole under side of the aircraft. The contrast helps.

    BS = Bull$%#@ degree Ms = more$%^#, and Phd= piled higher and deeper

  9. #9

    Thumbs up

    MvR encouraged his Pilots to use individual Colour Schemes both for ID purposes & Morale.
    Most Jastas adopted their own Colour schemes for the same reasons but any attempt by the RFC to do so was quickly "jumped on" by HQ.
    The RNAS on the other hand seemed quite happy to allow their Squadrons to indulge in colourful paint jobs.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    MvR encouraged his Pilots to use individual Colour Schemes both for ID purposes & Morale.
    Most Jastas adopted their own Colour schemes for the same reasons but any attempt by the RFC to do so was quickly "jumped on" by HQ.
    The RNAS on the other hand seemed quite happy to allow their Squadrons to indulge in colourful paint jobs.
    Was this happy-go-lucky attitude squashed when they got lumped into the RAF? They would have been greatly outnumbered at all levels by the RFC brass.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
    It should also being taken into account that long before MvR joined Jasta 2, Jasta's 16b and 17 had already started to ID their aircraft.
    Do you know when, and with what colours they started?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  12. #12

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    The ealry Jasta markings were very simple affairs

    Jasta 17: When the Jasta received their Alb DII in late 1916. Ritt Heinz von Brederlow chose three white (150mm each) and two black (50mm each) which were placed forward of the fusleage cross. There were also a couple of variations three black?/two white bands, three white/two red bands?.

    When they received the Albatros DV the Jasta marking were changed to dark tails (Black/Red?) with personal markings along the fusleage sides.

    Jasta 16b markings were just simple personal markings on the fusleage side forward of the national cross.

    Horse shoe
    Bavarian creste within a (black outlined) white diamond.
    Thin white band around fusleage
    I have also seen a picture that shows what is reported as a Jasta 16b Albatros DII with a large Dark Red/Black band? around the fuselage.
    Last edited by Beanie; 10-17-2011 at 04:52.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Was this happy-go-lucky attitude squashed when they got lumped into the RAF? They would have been greatly outnumbered at all levels by the RFC brass.
    Karl
    It may be so, but from what I have read, the amalgamation on paper did not have a lot of effect on the attitude of the Senior Service. some chaps even continued to wear their old uniforms and insignia up to the Armistice.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."



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