Stuka diving...

[Max Headroom]

I'm not sure if any one has questioned before, but is it a legitimate tactic to permorm a dive-bomb manouver (the one where the plane doesn't move but is considered diving) as merely an evasive move to have a tailing enemy overshoot? Or did these aircraft only use this purely for dive-bombing?
On top of this, whether or not the above is reasonable, I thought that the firing distance ought to be halved to take into account the steep orientation of the aircraft whilst performing this dive.
Thoughts anyone?

[Jimmy Doolittle]

I don't know wether it was used as a defensive maneuver, but it was a most efficent attack maneuver. A diving plane should be able to fire at any lower target inside half-range at short range (better aim). Also, you could use it as a defensive maneuver, because the enemy couldn't tail a diving plane and would overshoot it and pass above it. Hope it helped.

[Marechallannes]

Think you should use the two maneuver cards only once for dive bombing.

You should have to drop your bombs after this maneuvers, too.

...to keep it realistic, especialy when playing without altitude rules.

But the dive bomb Maneuver wasn't a defensive one, for shure. I mean, I tooks a lot of time to reach the altitude level for dive bombing.



Readed reports from the eastern front, when Stukas strafed the targets with their mashine guns after bombing, but only without enemy planes in this area.

Don't heard such stories about US or Japanese dive bombers.

[jhary]

The vertikal Dive was a Standart Manouver for escape by a lot of machines. But We have this card only for dive bombers so i woud say only for bombing it woud be a to great advantage for the 2 Dive bombers in the game.

[Marechallannes]

The vertikal Dive was a Standart Manouver for escape...

Not for bombers in WW II.

[Max Headroom]

Thanks for that volks! I had doubts about the dive but only Dario gave comments on the range.

[jhary]

Not for bombers in WW II.

depend in what plane you where in. for bombers it was normaly shoot back and hope

[Oberst Hajj]

I've asked the Man to weigh in on this subject...

[Angiolillo]

Well, for range you can make rules as you see fit.

Speakling in general, I would say that the question of use is not totally relevant when rules of the game are concerned IMHO. Rules gives you what the plane can do, while players will decide if and when do do that. This is why for example firing rocket agains enemy planes is not forbidden. But the firing sequence is complicated, as the real one was, so up to the player to decide if to try to use them agains planes instead than balloons, probably with scarce results (as in reality some pilot tried, with scarce results again).

Back to vertical dives, the plane can vertically dive, so you ca do it when you want. Both to attack and to evade, if you think. Then as Sven notes it "tooks a lot of time to reach the altitude level for dive bombing", so it is an evasion that you dearly pay for in altitude terms... Up to you if you want to use it or not.

[David Manley]

I've not played the WW2 version, so excuse my ignorance on this, but the impression I have is that dive bombers tended to be horrendously vulnerable when they pulled out of their dives to the extent that dive bombing in contested airspace was a pretty lethal time for them. Was that the case, and if so is this modelled with the dive bombing manoeuvre rules?

[Marechallannes]

The plane is very vulnerable without altitude rules, when performing the two dive bombing maneuvers.

With altitude rules the plane lost 2 Levels with 2 maneuvers.

Hard to follow the bomber...

But you know what to do next, cause of the straight maneuver it has to fly after the bombing.

[jhary]

Well, for range you can make rules as you see fit.

Speakling in general, I would say that the question of use is not totally relevant when rules of the game are concerned IMHO. Rules gives you what the plane can do, while players will decide if and when do do that. This is why for example firing rocket agains enemy planes is not forbidden. But the firing sequence is complicated, as the real one was, so up to the player to decide if to try to use them agains planes instead than balloons, probably with scarce results (as in reality some pilot tried, with scarce results again).

Back to vertical dives, the plane can vertically dive, so you ca do it when you want. Both to attack and to evade, if you think. Then as Sven notes it "tooks a lot of time to reach the altitude level for dive bombing", so it is an evasion that you dearly pay for in altitude terms... Up to you if you want to use it or not.

There where No Dive Bombers who where faster in an vertikal dive P47 for examble. so why Fighters who coud do it have no Vertikal dive card?

[richard m schwab]

Hershall!

That is another question for Andrea! A dive bomber is using it`s dive brakes to avoid tearing it`s wings off! There is no great speed increase by design! Normally a dive bomber could barely pull out of it`s dive after release and then it is at it`s most vulnerable! Fighters such as the P-47 could convert that dive momentum into a zoom climb to great advantage and not a thing to do down to low level!

Rich

[Marechallannes]

A normal fighter would loose 2 - 3 altitude levels with one dive (bombing) maneuver.

Don't know if tailspin ist the korrekt word for "trudeln" but this is a dangerous effect for fighter planes, diving such a distance.

[Max Headroom]

You lot have turned my simple post into a can of worms again! now I've got more options than I bargained for...

[richard m schwab]

Alan!


We are just a wealth of helpful information!


Rich

[macka321]

During the Battle of Britian the Me109's could not stay with the Stuka's during their bombing attacks
(they over shot as they could not slow to the DB attack speed or angle)
and this left them vulnerable to the british fighters.
I think with the dive brakes extended and a steep dive there is not much chance to dodge an attacking fighter.

[Marechallannes]

The fighters problem is - to hit the diving bomber. (...depending on flight simulator experience - I'am not a pilot!)

The plane goes down nearly vertical.

The dive bombers are vulnerable after the dive maneuver, but that's the time they're going to escape from the battlefield.

[Kaiser]

Pulling out of the dive was automated as most pilots would pass out because of the g-forces infolved. Once the bombs where released the horizontal stabilizer will automatically go up and pull the plane out of the dive while the pilot looses conciousness.
There the dive bomber was very vulnerable.

An other thing is that dive bombers usually where very slow. One of the main failing of the Ju87.

[Naharaht]

If you used a vertical dive as an escape maneuver without dropping the bombs, the weight of the bombs would make it much more difficult to pull out of the dive.