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Thread: Solo Rules tested. Downed by an AI pilot.

  1. #1

    Default Solo Rules tested. Downed by an AI pilot.

    I have just tested solo rules designed by Richard Bradley (Tyneside wargames club 2011) using a template for an AI pilot and predesigned sets of 3 manouver cards made by him, chosen by: 1) enemy plane position and 2) a die roll.
    How it went? I had a lot of solitaire gaming fun, till the eight turn...
    In that turn I was downed by a phantom AI pilot (YES!).
    And I'm not a newbie WoW player.
    This is the after fight report.

    I chose EIII (Udet) and Morane (Chaput) cards, mostly because I had never played with those monoplanes before. Both planes started at the edges of my big dining table.
    Both fighters were heading each other for 2-3 turns till the french pilot found himself in a 2 ruler distance from my Eindecker. Then the fun began! I had to choose my 3 cards and then 1 out of 3 preprogrammed sets of manouver cards depending of the position of my plane. It worked smoothly. Both planes started making turns to get a chance of a shot. I made some immelmans to get into position, but my aggresive "phantom" opponent always managed to slide out of my gunsight. I fired once or twice, but missed. He returned fire from a side and I got damaged. Important: My opponent didn't make any immelmans while I used them several times. And abruptly we passed each other without taking hits and both made immelmans (it was a small "dice" chance for him to do it) to make an "aggresive" head on attack! It was thrilling! We both fired our guns, I damaged the opponent and saw a smoke tail from his fuselage but that was the last thing I remember for ... I draw an explosion card and my Udet was killed.
    Below you see the final scene and the outcome.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I must tell you that Richard Bradley's solo rules are a great option of expanding the WoW experience without a F2F opponent, providing a sort of challange and fun. They simply work!

    On the right side down you can also see a home made "life saving die" reducing the explosion effect. But that's another story... This time I rolled a cross, so the pilot was killed
    Last edited by Nightbomber; 09-27-2011 at 11:17.

  2. #2

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    This looks really interesting Andrzej. It will be interesting to hear more on these rules as you test them. I am also intrigued by your die for casualty determination.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  3. #3

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    I took a look on the site of Tyneside wargames club, doesn´t look bad.
    I like the idea of your Live saving die - can you tell more about it?

    Matthias

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord View Post
    I took a look on the site of Tyneside wargames club, doesn´t look bad.
    I like the idea of your Live saving die - can you tell more about it?

    Matthias
    The die concept appeared to me after printing the critical damage deck cards available in the files section. They are fun, but since I love and play dice games in general (and have some self made dice towers), it was obvious to me that a single die would be a "house" solution. I generally don't like dying in an explosion. A pilot should have a slight chance of survival. So I took one of blank dice I have and carved&painted 6 symbols on it sides: 3 black crosses, 2 red hearts and 1 green plane silhouette (it's an amateur work!). How to use it? It's simple. Every time a plane is shot down (or an explosion occur) I roll this die.

    A cross rolled means a fatal impact, and pilot's death.
    A heart rolled - the pilot survived a crash landing,
    A plane rolled - there maybe some results to apply (up to the players!), like:
    OPTION 1) you still manage to control the plane somehow, the heat is on, so (have a drink and) reroll the die: A heart or a plane - you crash landed but you're safe.
    OPTION 2) if you are an ace - you landed safely.
    Other options - your imagination is the limit

  5. #5

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    Hy Andrzej,

    I tried the solo rules of Tyneside wargamers club today and must give the following report:

    My flight of 2 Alb. D.III(Oef) was surprised by two Hanriots comming out of the sun (used Charlie3´s Random Placement Diagram - dieced 8 (enemy straight from behind)).
    My flight used Beolckes dicta an made an Immelmann-turn to face the enemy.
    The first burst of the enemy leader hits the fueltank of my wingman Albatros - he went down in flames.
    In the next two turns I was able to damage both Hanriots (each 2 damage points) but then I was heckled (hope this is the right word) by both enemys - the fabric of my wings where holed like cheese.
    And after a last burst of the Hanriot´s leader my Albatros went down in an ever faster spin and eventualy chrashed.

    It works!!

    Thanks for sharing the rules.

    Matthias

  6. #6

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    WoooW! I see the rules work indeed! That was an intense fight. I'm pleasantly surprised how the phantom pilots react. It seems to be a demanding system.

    Dicta Boelcke: always turn to face the enemy attack - that was a right deision of yours.

  7. #7

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    I enjoy them. I am hoping he will expand them more.

  8. #8

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    Can we get a link to those rules.. I'd like to try them out myself..

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by rote Flügel View Post
    Can we get a link to those rules.. I'd like to try them out myself..
    Here: http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/wowrules.html
    You should use rules dated 1/06/2011. First you will have to cut a template provided there to regulate phantom pilots moves. Have fun.

  10. #10

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    Andrzej, I'm not quite clear on how you determine the sector that the target plane plane is in. Can you elaborate, thx.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of how the template works for determining the position of the planes.
    Last edited by Willi Von Klugermann; 09-29-2011 at 07:41.

  11. #11

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    I will post a "how to" in a couple of hours...

  12. #12

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    Much appreciated. I'm particularly keen on this system as I only have my kids to play F2F.

  13. #13

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    I think I can visualize how the template works but I'll wait to see your post Andrzej. Thx again.

  14. #14

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    The one thing about the system that I'd change is adjust the template so it lines up with clock references... would seem to fit the aviation mindset.

    Edit to clarify: The way I read the template is that the "1" band is actually 12 O'clock to 1 O'clock, and so on. So, when the table says 12-1, it really is 11 O'clock to 1 O'clock.
    Last edited by Ranger; 09-29-2011 at 11:02.

  15. #15

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    That is some fine work! I'll have to give them a shot, once I clear the gaming table from all the projects I'm working on.

    Wonder how hard it would be to integrate altitude logic into the AI as well.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Here: http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/wowrules.html
    You should use rules dated 1/06/2011. First you will have to cut a template provided there to regulate phantom pilots moves. Have fun.
    Thanks... I'm intrigued with this idea... looking forward to reading more..

  17. #17

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    Looks very interesting

  18. #18

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    OK, here goes the tutorial.
    First, you ought to make a two-sided template (found on Tyneside Wargame Club site) print manouver diagrams with sets of 3 cards for turns and - take a regular die.
    Dice tower and a glass of wine are optional. Here we have manouver cards for MvR DR1 and Roy Brown's Camel. Let's take Brown as the phantom player.Click image for larger version. 

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    Now let's place the template on Brown's plane on a side closest to the red birdie. The template shows in which sphere (or "hour") the enemy plane (you - the player) is.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    If you, as MvR happen to be on the other side of Brown, the template should be laid like this:
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    The ruler placed from the center of the phantom player' base aiming at the center of your base, shows the "sphere" or an hour, the phantom would choose his/her manouver cards from.
    Now take a look at the situation we have here. Brown is chasing MvR. Manfred, the living player, is selecting his 3 cards first. Then Brown (the phantom) is choosing the possible set of 3 cards:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    You roll a die and take the set of 3 cards according to the die roll.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I hope it was clear enough guys. Do it yourself and try to score a kill

    Andrzej.
    Last edited by Nightbomber; 09-29-2011 at 16:28.

  19. #19

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    Great illustration of how it works. Thanks again. I'll definitely try this when I get some time.

  20. #20

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    I like it very much. Simples!
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  21. #21

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    Again thanks for this.. I think I may get in more games now and be able to use some of these repaints I have collecting dust.. lol..
    What I really admire about this is the simplicity of it all and the ease of determining what the AI will do..
    I also like the updated version with options for where the plane is at as well.. i.e. Nose, side, tail etc. etc....

  22. #22

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    Have you tried running more than one plane for this yet Andrzej?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  23. #23

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    Nope, Rob, but will try during the weekend to come. There should be no problem with 2+ AI planes wth one real player, since the phantoms would always try to catch you. In other case, when a phantom would face 2+ living opponents, there could be a choice issue. The AI would have to decide which plane to attack. Different solutions are possible. 1) He will direct himself to the closest enemy, 2) He will choose the threatening living player, 3) He will choose the most damaged target, 4) He will try to get a turkey shot if in a tailing position. This may be done at random, or using some kind of morale factor.

  24. #24

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    Thanks for all the information and examples Andrzej. I'm going to have to give it a shot. I love the DVG "Leader" Series games due to the fun solitaire rules and have fiddled, without success, with some solitaire rules for WOW. I'm looking forward to trying this.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rkhlegacy View Post
    Thanks for all the information and examples Andrzej. I'm going to have to give it a shot. I love the DVG "Leader" Series games due to the fun solitaire rules and have fiddled, without success, with some solitaire rules for WOW. I'm looking forward to trying this.
    Wow - I own DVG's Phantom Leader and it's a very fun, engaging and challenging game.

  26. #26

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    I´m impressed by your die-tower, it looks great.
    Seems to be hard work - to build such a tower in one evening (to get the bottle empty!!).

    Matthias

  27. #27

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    Interesting tutorial - good photos.

    Nice work Nightbomber. I've got to try those rules on my own...

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Nope, Rob, but will try during the weekend to come. There should be no problem with 2+ AI planes wth one real player, since the phantoms would always try to catch you. In other case, when a phantom would face 2+ living opponents, there could be a choice issue. The AI would have to decide which plane to attack. Different solutions are possible. 1) He will direct himself to the closest enemy, 2) He will choose the threatening living player, 3) He will choose the most damaged target, 4) He will try to get a turkey shot if in a tailing position. This may be done at random, or using some kind of morale factor.
    Thanks for giving me such a full answer Andrzej. I was alluding to the two on two situation. As you say if the other more random factors are included it can lead on to an even more interesting game.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  29. #29

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    This. Is. Excellent.

    Great little review of how it all worked out. Really can't wait to run out of people to play with so I can get to work on fighting down some "ghost" pilots.

  30. #30

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    Well I tried it out tonight.. and I have to say.. I think this works very well.. I downloaded the info and then printed a copy of the C deck maneuvers..Got out a Barker Camel and my Voss Dr1.. the battle was fast and furious.. just check out the damage cards.. this was fun and I am gonna go back for more.. lol.. here is the final damage tally.. you see it was close..


  31. #31

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    I'm happy you like the system, Gunnar. Frankly, I didn't expect it to be so well thought. Ghosts pilots are really challenging.
    Above: -> it must have been hot!
    Oh, BTW, could you post some closer pictures of the Voss' Dr.1 you repainted?

  32. #32

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    I gave this a try today with a couple of minor modifications. I made 1 inch hex template and mounted it on the flight stand, rather than using the larger cut out template.

    I flew an S.E 5a vs. an Albatross D.Va, using the random set up. Cut cards and the "ghost" drew low, so was the defender. I did manage to shoot down the "ghost" but it was a close run thing. A very tough turning fight for the most part. I had taken 13 points before I managed to inflict 15 on the Albatross. The automated pilot system can really punish any mistake you make.

    I'd say this is an excellent way to learn a new aircraft or just hone your skills if you don't get to play too often.

  33. #33

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    I like it...very simple and easy to use. I will try it out soon.

  34. #34

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    If you enjoyed this, you should try the advanced variant by Shaun Mather on the same webpage! I really enjoy it and beleive that it has a couple significant improvements over the basic Richard Bradley rules:

    1) Changes the manuever card choices depending on whether the enemy plane is within one ruler distance (close) or over one ruler distance (long)
    2) Special manuever cards choices when plane is within one ruler of the board edge (to keep it on the table)

    Note: The advanced variant only has manuever deck instructions for A, B, C, D & H. The H deck provided for a bomber auto-pilot plane, although I haven't tried it yet

    http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/wowrules.html

  35. #35

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    Defintely I will, Michael. The modifications are interesting. Recently I've been busy chasing automated bombers, according to official rules and it was quite fun as well.

  36. #36

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    Our group tried it last night and we had a blast! We had four German “live” players vs. four “auto-pilot” allies (two Camels, two DR.Is, a Niuport 17, a Pfalz D.III, a D.Va and a Spad XIII.) Sequence of loss was Niuport, Pfalz, Camel, DR.I, Camel, DR.I, and Spad. The last allied aircraft went down on the 21st turn and the game lasted about 3 ½ hours. The slowest part was actually the card selection for the live players. The auto-pilot workings were pretty fast once we got the hang of it. Several of the live players were considering trying to use the auto pilot charts for their own aircraft since the autopilots were doing so well.

    The one problem area we had was the speed of the Spad. It was difficult staying on the board (we played on the two East/West game mats.) If you were about 1/3 of a mat from the edge and if a live player aircraft was toward the closest mat edge, it was likely that you would head off the mat at the start of the next programmed turn. Not sure how to solve that unless we use a much larger playing area or ignoring the opposing plane and just try to stay in play.

    All in all, a great game. We will be trying an auto-pilot bombing or recon mission the next time we play. Also, we will probably limit the field to just 6 planes total so as to cut down on playing time (we all had to go to work the today!)

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walram View Post
    The one problem area we had was the speed of the Spad. It was difficult staying on the board (we played on the two East/West game mats.) If you were about 1/3 of a mat from the edge and if a live player aircraft was toward the closest mat edge, it was likely that you would head off the mat at the start of the next programmed turn. Not sure how to solve that unless we use a much larger playing area or ignoring the opposing plane and just try to stay in play.
    I had a similar problem with the SE 5 vs. the Albatros DV. I was playing on a 39 inch diameter round card table. The faster planes do tend to fly off the edge. I adjusted by sliding the planes back towards the middle of the table if they started getting too close to the edge, but that's not practical of you have more than two planes in the fight.
    Last edited by Ranger; 10-27-2011 at 04:42.

  38. #38

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    David and Rob!

    I would suggest to let the AI planes fly off the edges without eliminating them. In fact they would turn backwards next turn (or you force them to do so). It's a handicap in a way, but then they become even tougher, less predictive and more demanding opponnents. Just my 2 cents.

    Glad you had a great time!

    Andrzej.

  39. #39

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    Good idea, Andrzej. Possibly require two 60 degree turns away from the edge and a variable straight or 60 degree. However, as good as the Auto pilot planes did, I’m not sure how interested the others would be to have them “become even tougher, less predictive and more demanding opponents”

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walram View Post
    However, as good as the Auto pilot planes did, I’m not sure how interested the others would be to have them “become even tougher, less predictive and more demanding opponents”

  41. #41

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    The system is great. Thanks, Richard and Andrzej.

  42. #42

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    This looks much easier and simpler for solo play than my shuffling the AI planes maneuver deck and blind drawing 3 cards per turn. I'm goona try this out!

  43. #43

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    And watch your six; phantom players are truly dangerous!

  44. #44

    Stumpy82
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    I just gave this system a go, and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I tried it in a 1 on 1 - Camel vs Fokker Dr1. For the first couple of turns, the planes closed range with each other. I sent my Camel slightly to my AI opponent's left, intending to swoop across him and turn hard to the right to get on his tail, and it almost worked perfectly. The Fokker fired off a short burst at me as I passed across, then as I turned in on him, I managed to score a pilot hit. He then climbed up and kicked around for an Immelman, but I took advantage of the Camel's amazing right-turn capability and caught him in another dangerous head on pass. Unfortunately for the Fokker pilot, this was another direct hit on him - sending him spiralling down to the ground below.

    Brief, but quite intense - will happily be running this again. Well done!

  45. #45

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    I think it is a great system and I highly recommend it. I usually play 3 phantom planes verses 2 I control. Right now I'm doing a 4 on 4 it is a blast but, I've should of made it a 4 on 3. You never know when that blasted explosion card will show up!!!

  46. #46

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    i've had a bit of trouble trying to print them off think u could get them into files?

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by radzak View Post
    i've had a bit of trouble trying to print them off think u could get them into files?
    I had downloaded the files (manouver tables) in .pdf format into my machine with ease and then printed them offline. No troubles.

    If that doesn't work for you, just shoot me a PM with your email address and I will send you pdf files.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  48. #48

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    nvm i got them printed i'll try this out a.s.a.p

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by radzak View Post
    nvm i got them printed i'll try this out a.s.a.p
    Well, you know the drill! Photos here and an AAR.

  50. #50

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    wow... i tried this and it's amazing. here's the post game report.

    me in a SPAD and the ai in an albatros D.Va were dancing through the sky, he got me close up once but i got him more. near the end i was at 4 damage and he was at 12, we both turned away from each other (we were side by side) and lone behold he did an immelman just after i did. we were less than a mm apart nose to nose and i hit him with a 0 and a 3 he hit me with a 2 and a 4 with fire. victory!

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