Extra Maneuver Decks

**KirkH** · 12-01-2009 15:51

I find the biggest deterrent to me playing multi aircraft missions is not having enough maneuver decks. If I want to play a game that pits 4 Albatros's against 4 SE-5a's I just don't have enough decks. Yes I can buy miniatures, but unfortunately the minis are only a subset of the available aircraft. You can't get extra decks for SE-5a's as yet. I know there are various play aids that will allow one to play multiple aircraft with one maneuver deck, but to me that seems like a band-aid fix. We need to be able to buy maneuver decks on their own. Is there anybody out there like me who would buy booster packs of a selection of maneuver decks?

**DentedHead** · 12-01-2009 16:42

yeah, I would. I made do scanning and re-printing them, but I'd much rather buy proper ones. I'll prolly use official mini's for DoW, but as I make my own for WoW, getting decks is an issue...

Dent.

**Greywolf** · 12-01-2009 20:33

checkout Druid Ian's photo maneuver decks they are in the file section I'll be using them...

Cheers
GW

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-02-2009 07:17

Our, you could just pick up the Booster packs that are out already.

Recon Patrol
D maneuver deck
K maneuver deck
Target/trench card

Top Fighters
L maneuver deck
M maneuver deck

Immelmann

G maneuver deck
P maneuver deck (2 copies)

Dogfight
N maneuver deck
O maneuver deck

At about $8 for booster pack which gives you those decks plus lots of plane cards, it's a pretty good deal. You can download the Products Content file in the WWI Official Release section of the Files section for a list of all plane cards that come with those.

**KirkH** · 12-02-2009 13:46

I've got all of them. So now I have one or maybe two of each maneuver deck. The problem is if you get a booster pack you get only one maneuver deck. As an example, with the Dogfight pack you get 16 SE-5a's and only one N maneuver deck. If I'd like to play a game where I fly more than one I have to jury rig some way of doing it and I shouldn't have to. I should be able to buy just the maneuver decks.

**IRM** · 12-03-2009 06:08

Same issue I have since I sometimes have at least 4 of a particular type of plane in use, except for those which I have official models for of course. Aircraft that don't have models yet or don't use the same deck as an existing model are problematic. I'm not going to buy 4 booster packs just so I can have 4 SE5a models on the table. What I've started doing is making cards from the manoeuvre decks from "Files" and using those to plot moves, then just using the proper decks to move the models.

If they did decide to produce seperate card decks (as well as spare bases for that matter) I'd be interested. Can't see it happening, however.

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-03-2009 08:41

I guess I don't see the issue since you can already buy the decks... you just get extra plane cards for free

Unless you guys think the US$8 is to much for 2-3 maneuver decks.

**KirkH** · 12-03-2009 16:31

It's a waste of money to be forced to buy booster packs and get 25 or 30 plane cards over and over again just to get two maneuver decks.

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-04-2009 19:15

Compared to US$4 for 12-15 collectible card game cards, I thought getting maneuver decks this way was a pretty good deal.

I know there are some people on here that would love to have your extra plane cards... could recoup some of your money that way through our Classifieds here.

**KirkH** · 12-04-2009 20:12

Sorry, but $4 for a pack of collectible card game cards is insane as well. As for WoW, I just can't see why someone would buy extras of the booster packs and throw away/collect/sell all the duplicate plane cards they'd get just to get the maneuver decks. I can see maybe doing it once if you're desperate for a certain deck, but not as a regular way to increase the number of decks one can use. Besides, it's not like all the maneuver decks are available in booster packs anyway.

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-05-2009 01:00

Hence the reason people use some of the files in the File section to run multiple planes that do not have minis yet. I personally think they have done a good job of making it easy and inexpensive to run large games. I mean, how many other companies let players freely distribute material that basically lets you play their games for free?

**DentedHead** · 12-05-2009 05:31

I gotta agree with the Colonel here, it's easy enough to get around the maneuver deck issue. While I'd certainly buy decks if they were available, with a little effort the deck issue can be avoided very cheaply. My home made ones cost maybe AU$7-8 (US$5-6) for some card slips, a few old CCG commons as backing, and about an hour of effort (oh, and some printer ink). So now I have 3 of each the A,B,C, and D decks. Having multiples of an aircraft card is also handy. Place one copy on the aircraft consol, and you'll not mix up your consols when using the other copy in leiu of mini's (something I did a bit early on).

I gotta admit, I find it odd that anyone would complain about the cost of this game. I reckon it's damn cheap for what you get.

Dent.

**KirkH** · 12-05-2009 08:33

Originally Posted by DentedHead

it's easy enough to get around the maneuver deck issue.

And that's all I'm saying. You guys offer various home made ways to "get around the maneuver deck issue." when we shouldn't have to.

**Von Rotherham** · 12-05-2009 10:32

I agree with Kirk, I have been thinking about this for a while myself. Yes it is easy to make your own decks and cards, but I don't have easy access to a printer and I am sure I'm not the only one. I think it would be a great idea if the manoeuvre decks were sold in blisters of, say, four different decks, then you could pick and choose the ones you want and not have loads of spare plane cards. Yes the blisters are cheap enough, but I just think it would give a bit more choice to the buyer by putting manoeuvre cards in their own separate blisters. I would definitely buy them.

**DentedHead** · 12-05-2009 15:19

I agree being able to buy maneuver decks would be great. What I'm arguing against (and I may well have mis-interpreted things here) is the sense of entitlement here, the comments like "we shouldn't have to". The manufacturer doesn't "owe" us the ability to buy decks. Sure, most of us would love to be able to get the decks on their own, and it may well happen, but till then the company has given us alternatives that cost next to nothing. Not many companies will do that.

Dent.

**Greywolf** · 12-05-2009 22:11

Originally Posted by Von Rotherham

I agree with Kirk, I have been thinking about this for a while myself. Yes it is easy to make your own decks and cards, but I don't have easy access to a printer and I am sure I'm not the only one. I think it would be a great idea if the manoeuvre decks were sold in blisters of, say, four different decks, then you could pick and choose the ones you want and not have loads of spare plane cards. Yes the blisters are cheap enough, but I just think it would give a bit more choice to the buyer by putting manoeuvre cards in their own separate blisters. I would definitely buy them.

not sure what the colour printing cost is else where but here its $1.79NZD per sheet. So double sided sheet would cost $3.58NZD for a complete sheet of cards [eg front and back]. To print the J deck would cost me $7.16NZD due to it having two sheets.

Now I can buy the Booster packs for $16.73NZD. I get 2 maneuver decks and whole lot of planes. now the issue is I get two decks I don't need. as I am wanting to get alot of either the J/A/B or D decks so what are my options.... well very limited.

I do like the option of having maneuver decks sold in a pack or even spare part orders where by I could order in direct spare decks.

But whatever the case maybe we will not get what we want all the time I guess we need to pick the ones we can win and I guess live with the rest till it changes.

Cheers
GW

**Von Rotherham** · 12-06-2009 03:26

I'm sorry if it came across as a sense of entitlement, that wasn't my intention. Neither am I attacking Nexus games and the brilliant range they put out. The fact there are manoeuvre decks (and a whole host of other goodies) available as downloads here on this site is fantastic and I hope they stay there readily available. What has been missed however is the fact that a lot of people who play WoW/DoW don't have access to a printer or indeed, even the Internet to access the files. Obviously everyone on this forum has at least one or both of these, so there is little problem there, but for the others that don't there has to be an alternative, surely. Even having access to the Internet is no guarantee that the files are easy to access. I didn't know that the files existed until I started to read this thread two days ago. I'm not pointing the finger of blame here, it's my own fault for not looking and since finding them I have gone on to look at what else is available here (and it is all excellent stuff!!). I'm sure separate manoeuvre decks is something that has not been overlooked by Nexus and will in time appear, like I said at the beginning I'm not claiming entitlement but wouldn't mind the option of separate decks!

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-06-2009 04:13

I would not hold my breath for Nexus to put out maneuver decks separately or in grouped packs. They already give players relatively cheap ways to buy all of the decks, either with the miniatures or in the boosters. I really don't see them fronting the cost for extra packaging and logistics to sell you decks so you can play with miniatures made by other companies.

I also hope you guys are not taking my posts as any thing against you personally. I agree that it would be nice to have extra maneuver decks out there, but I don't see it as a problem that needs correcting. Oh, and I already have more of each maneuver card then I usually need. I seldom play with every miniature I have of a single plane type and with extra planes for repaints, I end up with 6-7 of some of the decks already.

**Von Rotherham** · 12-06-2009 04:33

'so you can play with miniatures made by other companies.'

I hadn't thought of that! It is a business after all!

I also hope you guys are not taking my posts as any thing against you personally.

Not at all, debate and discusion is a healthy thing. Hopefully with discussion and debate we won't be playing WoW World War 3 in few years...

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-06-2009 05:12

Originally Posted by Von Rotherham

Not at all, debate and discusion is a healthy thing. Hopefully with discussion and debate we won't be playing WoW World War 3 in few years...

Yeah, how boring would that be with all the stealth aircraft! LOL

**Pseudotheist** · 12-06-2009 08:08

I agree with the concern, and posted a suggestion about it a couple years ago on the yahoo group. To save time, I'll cut and paste the entire thing:

Andrea: Has there been any consideration towards publishing "master
maneuver Decks" of some sort? Given that there are only 4 flight
speeds represented in the game, and almost every deck shares at least
15 cards with all other decks of the same speed (with many being
identical in all but one or 2 cards) it would seem that a deck
containing the necessary cards for all current maneuver decks would be
a convenient way to add diversity to the playable combinations of
aircraft, particularly for players who have the boxed sets and booster
cards with lots of extra aircraft, but only one of each deck to go
with them.

Unfortunately, I've left my numbers at home, but I think they fell out
something like this:

100% speed master deck (Currently the N deck): 24 cards, representing
2 decks
80% speed master deck: 30 cards, representing 7 decks
60% speed master deck: 24 cards, representing 4 decks
50% speed master deck: 24 cards, representing 3 decks

Now I seem to recall seeing somewhere that a card sheet aw 72 cards.
At that size, you could print the 100% and 80% cards on a sheet with
room for 2 planes of each deck type (1 each of allied & central, if
the deck supports it), and would have some room left over if you did
the same thing with the 60% and 50% sheets. And you could print the
deck codes along the top or side of the cards, in blue if the card is
used for that deck, or white if it is not.

These would be a great products not only for replacing lost decks, but
for many of us to buy multiples of so we can use all those extra
copies of planes that we got in the boxed sets and booster backs.
heck, if you did this, I'd have to hunt down a copy of the Top
Fighters booster pack, so I could field some extra Fokker D.VIIs and
Sopwith Snipes.

So, Andrea, if you haven't though about this before, please do.
Anyone else: what do you think; would you buy these, or is this a
hair-brained idea?

It didn't really gain any traction over there, and at the time, Andrea's concern was that it wouldn't be "future proof" because of the new decks that would be coming out. But here, a year and a half later, we only have 2 or 3 new fighter decks on the horizon, which would add a grand total of 0 new cards to the master decks. And as far as I can tell the bombers will be on a different system entirely with different speeds.

So, what do you guys think? Is this a product you guys would like to see and be likely to buy?

**Druid_ian** · 12-06-2009 11:05

Originally Posted by Pseudotheist

I agree with the concern, and posted a suggestion about it a couple years ago on the yahoo group. To save time, I'll cut and paste the entire thing:

It didn't really gain any traction over there, and at the time, Andrea's concern was that it wouldn't be "future proof" because of the new decks that would be coming out. But here, a year and a half later, we only have 2 or 3 new fighter decks on the horizon, which would add a grand total of 0 new cards to the master decks. And as far as I can tell the bombers will be on a different system entirely with different speeds.

So, what do you guys think? Is this a product you guys would like to see and be likely to buy?

If you want a set of decks made up i can do this for you using the photo decks in the file area
iirc the speeds are 100,90,80and 75%
working on those figures the top speed A & N decks would require a 90 80 and 75% speed variant
the 90% speed decks B,C,F,H,L.M and O Decks would need a 80 and 75% speed variant
the 80% speed decks D,I,J and K would need a 75% speed variant
and of course the 75% deck are already at the slowest speed

**BirdMan** · 09-11-2016 15:40

OK, just how do I purchase these booster packs? I understand that they are maneuver decks. I am completely frustrated that Ares has virtually nothing from the early war ... unless "Out of Stock" counts for something. I can buy 1/144th scale planes and adequate bases but won't have maneuver decks.

**john snelling** · 09-11-2016 15:56

Originally Posted by BirdMan

OK, just how do I purchase these booster packs? I understand that they are maneuver decks. I am completely frustrated that Ares has virtually nothing from the early war ... unless "Out of Stock" counts for something. I can buy 1/144th scale planes and adequate bases but won't have maneuver decks.

I was lucky to get in the game with the first set. Now, I have plenty of decks and around 300 aircraft.

Now, if I did not have such a stash and no way of getting the deck I would:
Buy some good card stock or 3x5 cards and cut them down to size and draw up my own cards. Actually I working an a very very slow deck now for my Lohner L flying boats.
As long has you are enjoying the hobby, why not? They do not even have to be perfect.

Be creative and have fun!

**flash** · 09-12-2016 00:09

Originally Posted by BirdMan

OK, just how do I purchase these booster packs? I understand that they are maneuver decks. I am completely frustrated that Ares has virtually nothing from the early war ... unless "Out of Stock" counts for something. I can buy 1/144th scale planes and adequate bases but won't have maneuver decks.

Booster packs are getting pretty rare now Dale, of course you are looking at a thread that is over seven years old and they were a Nexus not an Ares product (we wish) They do come up on evil bay from time to time though.
What might help you is a recent development by one of our members on this thread
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...er-Decks/page5
Where a single card provides all the manoeuvres - you just have to pick the numbers. Not the same but a neat alternative if you don't have any decks.

**BirdMan** · 09-12-2016 07:57

Guess I failed to notice the date! But I am frustrated that Ares shows early WWI planes with the all-important cards but they're mostly "Out of stock." Ares should at least let or contract someone else make 'em.

**flash** · 09-12-2016 10:58

That was series 5 - Ares first official release over 4 years ago now so that's why they're out of stock but I understand your frustration. You need to contact some the other pilots in Ohio, there are quite a few of them I understand, and see if they'll help you out with a copy of what you need.

**Ken at Sunrise** · 09-12-2016 11:19

It would be nice, in lieu of the actual miniatures, to have the planes available in their card form. I far prefer the miniatures but still

**BirdMan** · 09-12-2016 15:27

Thanks for replying. Hey, I see you live close to the action, at least much closer than I ever have. I grew up in SE Arizona (near Tombstone) and fell in love with this era after receiving and playing Milton Bradley's American Heritage WWI flying game they called "Dogfight." They reproduced "Bishop of Canada" on the box cover. Thought of flying for years. When I saw "The Great Waldo Pepper" (definitely one of Redford's lesser-known flicks), I made the jump. Flew five years but didn't get past Cherokees 140s and Piper 150s. By past I really mean "past"--WWI. Real flying. Have flown Stearman biplane on two occasions. But FE2b is my favorite. (DH2 close behind.) Always hoped England would reconstruct a flying version. Appears I'll have to travel down under to see one (actually two) in the air. Anyway, I really like the early birds, so I'm doubly disappointed in Ares' abandonment of the first half of the Great War.

**OldGuy59** · 09-12-2016 16:03

Originally Posted by BirdMan

Thanks for replying. Hey, I see you live close to the action, at least much closer than I ever have. I grew up in SE Arizona (near Tombstone) and fell in love with this era after receiving and playing Milton Bradley's American Heritage WWI flying game they called "Dogfight." They reproduced "Bishop of Canada" on the box cover. Thought of flying for years. When I saw "The Great Waldo Pepper" (definitely one of Redford's lesser-known flicks), I made the jump. Flew five years but didn't get past Cherokees 140s and Piper 150s. By past I really mean "past"--WWI. Real flying. Have flown Stearman biplane on two occasions. But FE2b is my favorite. (DH2 close behind.) Always hoped England would reconstruct a flying version. Appears I'll have to travel down under to see one (actually two) in the air. Anyway, I really like the early birds, so I'm doubly disappointed in Ares' abandonment of the first half of the Great War.

Dale,
Ares hasn't abandoned any period of either war, despite the slow output of minis. It is a really small company, without a big bankroll to support production. So, it takes them a while to put out anything.

Also, because of production issues (IMHO, which is that Chinese companies will backlog small orders for the bigger production runs that get them more money. They produce small production runs when they don't have bigger orders. This delays output, not counting any production errors or glitches).

If we can get more people buying the game, and clearing out the less popular models, Ares gets more money and demand to produce more planes (Demand from distributors and stores, not individual players, BTW. In Canada, the distributors are dropping the line, not putting in more demand. Even if I want minis, my local store can't even order the current releases). There are tipping points in all this, one where Ares doesn't make enough money on previous series to pay for the next, and the one where enough people start buying minis to make faster production profitable for both the Chinese company and Ares to be putting out minis in a more timely manner.

**BirdMan** · 09-13-2016 05:48

Will there be more for Christmas? Everyone ramps up for the buying season. I'd rather buy Ares' planes, for the reasons you give and because I don't have the artistic skills, etc., to make planes as nice looking. And I sure can't produce good cards!

**john snelling** · 09-13-2016 05:55

Originally Posted by BirdMan

Will there be more for Christmas? Everyone ramps up for the buying season. I'd rather buy Ares' planes, for the reasons you give and because I don't have the artistic skills, etc., to make planes as nice looking. And I sure can't produce good cards!

They do not have to be good, they just have to represent moving the model in the right direction.

**BirdMan** · 09-13-2016 06:07

Granted. Still, the cards have to sturdy enough for play and durable. The "top" of any I'd make would be plain. Would probably use colored card or cover stock. I guess that would do.

**Teaticket** · 09-13-2016 08:39

You don't have to print on anything sturdy if you use a plastic card sleeve. I just started sleeving my cards as I run a lot of convention games and want to protect my cards from the players.

**BirdMan** · 09-13-2016 11:43

Originally Posted by Teaticket

You don't have to print on anything sturdy if you use a plastic card sleeve. I just started sleeving my cards as I run a lot of convention games and want to protect my cards from the players.

I'll admit that I use sleeves with my Memoir 44 stuff but we're talking measurements in WoG. Guess it wouldn't affect that much.

**OldGuy59** · 09-13-2016 12:08

Originally Posted by BirdMan

I'll admit that I use sleeves with my Memoir 44 stuff but we're talking measurements in WoG. Guess it wouldn't affect that much.

As long as the arrows are the same size, and the "cards" are the right size, the sleeves just protect them. The sleeves are clear, so you just place the sleeved card carefully under the front of the stand, and move the stand to the arrow. It works well for me.

If there is a 1/16th of an inch difference once in a while, it shouldn't throw the game completely out, unless you have some-one wrapped a bit too tightly concerning every shot and move.

**BirdMan** · 09-13-2016 12:10

Understand. Over and out.

**Teaticket** · 09-13-2016 12:36

I place the arrow end of the card into the sleeve. When the sleeve is a bit long I cut it to size. Then the end touching the front of the plane base during movement is actually the card.

**BirdMan** · 09-13-2016 12:47

I looked at some cards I have in sleeves and see that it would work reasonably well. Thanks.

**milcoll73** · 09-13-2016 17:54

Originally Posted by Teaticket

I place the arrow end of the card into the sleeve. When the sleeve is a bit long I cut it to size. Then the end touching the front of the plane base during movement is actually the card.

thats the nice thing about the mayday games sleeves......NO TRIMMING!!!!

**Teaticket** · 09-14-2016 07:19

Originally Posted by milcoll73

thats the nice thing about the mayday games sleeves......NO TRIMMING!!!!

I have Mayday for the WWI and small WW2 maneuver decks. I agree, they fit tight but are the correct length. I have Fantasy Flight for the larger fast WW2 decks. The larger sleeves need to be cut down a mm or two.

Do you know if the larger sleeves by Mayday are the right length?

**Captain Knowitall** · 01-22-2017 10:45

I feel your pain. I find the same problem with the Nieuport 11's, 17's and 16's. I have ONE "R" manuever deck for the Le Peur Rocket equipped Nieuport 16. Only a couple Manuever decks for the N.11's and 17's. I purchased some shapeway's versions of these planes and have the stands for them, but not enough cards to go around for the French and Italian versions.

**Captain Knowitall** · 01-22-2017 10:48

What is the availability of these deck sets? Ebay is pretty spotty for availability.

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

Our, you could just pick up the Booster packs that are out already.

Recon Patrol
D maneuver deck
K maneuver deck
Target/trench card

Top Fighters
L maneuver deck
M maneuver deck

Immelmann

G maneuver deck
P maneuver deck (2 copies)

Dogfight
N maneuver deck
O maneuver deck

At about $8 for booster pack which gives you those decks plus lots of plane cards, it's a pretty good deal. You can download the Products Content file in the WWI Official Release section of the Files section for a list of all plane cards that come with those.

**Flying Helmut** · 01-23-2017 05:03

I think Evan (Xen on here) has a couple of sets in Aus - Try sending him a PM

**OldGuy59** · 01-23-2017 11:36

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

Our, you could just pick up the Booster packs that are out already.

Recon Patrol
D maneuver deck
K maneuver deck
Target/trench card

Top Fighters
L maneuver deck
M maneuver deck

Immelmann

G maneuver deck
P maneuver deck (2 copies)

Dogfight
N maneuver deck
O maneuver deck

At about $8 for booster pack which gives you those decks plus lots of plane cards, it's a pretty good deal. You can download the Products Content file in the WWI Official Release section of the Files section for a list of all plane cards that come with those.

Originally Posted by Captain Knowitall

What is the availability of these deck sets? Ebay is pretty spotty for availability.

Recon Patrol available here: Booster Packs for Sale

Man! There was a lot of dust on those...