Albatros D.I and D.II

[Kaiser]

Albatros D.I

General characteristic
Crew: one pilot
Length: 7.40 m (23 ft 3.5 in)
Wingspan: 8.50 m (27 ft 11 in)
Height: 2.95 m (9 ft 8 in)
Wing area: 22.9 m² (247 ft²)
Empty weight: 645 kg (1,422 lb)
Gross weight: 898 kg (1,809 lb)
Powerplant: 1 x 110 kW (150 hp) Benz Bz.III or a 120 kW (160 hp) Mercedes D.III 6-cylinder inline engine

Performance
Maximum speed: 175 km/h (110 mph)
Endurance: 1.5 hours
Service ceiling: 3,000 m (9,840 ft)
Rate of climb: 2.8 m/s (547 ft/min)

Armament
2 × forward-firing 7.92 mm (.312 in) LMG 08/15 machine guns

Albatros D.II

General characteristics
Crew: one (pilot)
Length: 7.40 m (23 ft 3.5 in)
Wingspan: 8.50 m (27 ft 11 in)
Height: 2.59 m (8 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 24.5 m² (264 ft²)
Empty weight: 637 kg (1,404 lb)
Loaded weight: 888 kg (1,958 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Mercedes D.III 6-cylinder inline engine, 120 kW (160 hp)

Performance
Maximum speed: 175 km/h (95 kn, 110 mph)
Service ceiling: 5,180 m (16,990 ft)
Rate of climb: 3 m/s (596 ft/min)
Endurance: 1.5 hours

Armament
2 × forward-firing 7.92 mm (.312 in) LMG 08/15 machine guns

And for comparisons:
Albatros D.III (in WoW J A 14 11/4)

General characteristics
Crew: one
Length: 7.33 m (24 ft 0 in)
Wingspan: 9.00 m (29 ft 6 in)
Height: 2.90 m (9 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 23.6 m² (254 ft²)
Empty weight: 695 kg (1,532 lb)
Loaded weight: 886 kg (1,949 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 955 kg (2,105 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Mercedes D.IIIa inline water cooled engine, 127 kW (170 hp)

Performance
Maximum speed: 175 km/h (94 kn, 109 mph) at sea level
Range: 480 km (261 nmi, 300 mi)
Service ceiling: 5,500 m (18,044 ft)
Rate of climb: 4.5 m/s (886ft/min)
Wing loading: 37.5 kg/m² (7.67 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.13 kW/kg (0.081 hp/lb)

Armament
2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) LMG 08/15 machine guns

[Kaiser]

First guess for the Albatros D.I:
J A 14 9/5

First guess for the Albatros D.II:
J A 14 10/5

[Mike George]

Albatros D.I and D.II didn't have the V-strut that made the D-III lower wing twist in a steep dive. You would have to show this is the dive area I would think.

[Kaiser]

But there are no rules for this.
The Nieuport has the same problem with the lower wing spar breaking in a dive and this is shown with the low damage capacity.
So this perhabs?
Albatros D.I:
J A 15 9/5
Albatros D.II:
J A 15 10/5

[Kaiser]

Doublepost...

But well with the above we have
Albatros D.I
J A 15 9/5
Albatros D.II
J A 15 10/5
Albatros D.III
J A 14 11/4
Albatros D.V
B A 14 13/2 ?
Albatros D.Va
B A 15 13/3

[Albert Ross]

Albatros D.I and D.II didn't have the V-strut that made the D-III lower wing twist in a steep dive. You would have to show this is the dive area I would think.

We don't let Albatrosses use overdive for that reason. Better than lowering the overall strength

[Linz]

For the DI I would go J A 14 Ceiling 9 c/r 5
and the DII J A 14 Ceiling 11 c/r 5
I think to give an earlier aircraft better damage than a later aircraft that was a development of the former doesn't sit well with me.
Linz

[Mike George]

But there are no rules for this.
The Nieuport has the same problem with the lower wing spar breaking in a dive and this is shown with the low damage capacity.
So this perhabs?
Albatros D.I:
J A 15 9/5
Albatros D.II:
J A 15 10/5

That makes it right.

[Mike George]

But what Albert Ross makes more sence. The few aircraft with V struts that have wing problems should not be able to overdive.
Proble solved! I like it.

[Linz]

I understand what you guys are saying in relation to wing warping in steep dives however damage value is not in relation to how the aircraft is flown but in how much damage from enemy fire / collisions it can sustain before it falls out of the sky.
The pilots where aware of what aircraft could and couldn't do and flew them accordingly.
For an early war aircraft I still feel 15 is too high.
Other single seater aircraft of the period are only 11,12,13s and two seaters 14 and 15.
So I say again 14
Linz

[Kaiser]

Well apart from the V-struts/wings and the engine the D.I and D.II are identical to the D.III. The wooden fuselage made it an exeptional durable aircraft for its time. Then came the D.III with the V-struts which made the Albatros loose its lower wings during sharp manoeuvres.
The Nieuport had the same problem and is the reason it can only take 10-12 damage (iirc Andrea sait something like this in an interview).

So i'm still in favour in making the D.I and D.II more durable than the D.III but the D.III can climb faster and higher.

For example the Halberstadt D.III can take 14 damage. The Albatros D.I was both faster (better engine) and more durable (wooden fuselage) than the Halberstadt D.III.

[Ravenlord]

I understand what you guys are saying in relation to wing warping in steep dives however damage value is not in relation to how the aircraft is flown but in how much damage from enemy fire / collisions it can sustain before it falls out of the sky.
The pilots where aware of what aircraft could and couldn't do and flew them accordingly.
For an early war aircraft I still feel 15 is too high.
Other single seater aircraft of the period are only 11,12,13s and two seaters 14 and 15.
So I say again 14
Linz

I would give them 14 damage points too, for the reasons listed above - I think it´s better to give a damage card (A or B - your own decision) to planes with single spar wings that performing an overdive (Alb. D.III, D.V, SSW. D.I, Fokker Dr. I, Nieuport 11, 16, 17, 23, Sopwith Triplane).

Matthias

[Mike W]

We don't let Albatrosses use overdive for that reason. Better than lowering the overall strength

I play with a rule for Albatros Scouts with weak wings. Once a pilot plays his cards to commit to an overdive he rolls a D6 die. Upon a roll of 1 or 2 his wing tore off....

[Kaiser]

Problem is that there are no rules about single spar/V-strud planes in the core rules.
So we have to build in this extra vulnerability into the damage capacity.

[Doug]

There is a lot of logic in what is being said but for simplicty's sake I agree with Suart no overdive for planes with V struts.

[Kaiser]

But this would break with established (= rulebook) rules and would result in planes as the Nieuport to have more damage capacity.