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Thread: Unofficial Plane Martinsyde G100/ G102 `Elephant

  1. #1

    Default Unofficial Plane Martinsyde G100/ G102 `Elephant

    A personal favorite aircraft of mine...
    I`d like to get your thoughts on stat`s for this elegant big bird !

    These pictures are of my 13 inch span flying model...
    Still needs a bit of rigging to be done....
    This is where my avatar picture comes from...
    Cheers
    Batesyboy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF1937.jpg   DSCF1938.jpg   DSCF1949.jpg   DSCF1939.jpg  

  2. #2

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    Steve
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    I'm just awed by the work you guys do!! Okie

  3. #3

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    Exquisite.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  4. #4

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    Beautiful work.
    What speed climb rate ceiling etc did it have.
    Linz

  5. #5

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    Not very good, it wasn't called the Elephant for nothing God knows how John Gilmour got 3 kills in one Ended up being used for photo-recon and ground attack.

    "Lt. Stuart Campbell who joined 27 Squadron in 1917 described the Martinsyde as "a delightful machine for leisurely pleasure but totally unsuitable for daylight bombing or indeed any kind of war mission". He described it as very slow and sluggish on the controls when loaded with bombs. On bombing missions the aircraft could take two hours to reach the typical operational height of 15,000 ft. Campbell commented that the only defence when attacked was to go into a dive and zig-zag for home."
    source:http://www.apw.airwar1.org.uk/g100.htm

    I'd look at the K manoeuvre deck (yep, the bomber one), it's about the right speed band (83mph for the .100 model, about 95 for the .102 with the 160hp engine). Altitude would be 9 (for the .100, add a level or two for the .102), climb rate is perhaps 5 (if I'm being charitable), maybe go with 13 hits (fairly big, so on the high end for fighters of it's generation). Guns are B/B, both Lewis guns (pilot obviously can't shoot both at once and the rear gun will need a restricted arc, maybe remove the rear right part). Carries up to 260lb bombs.
    Last edited by IRM; 07-27-2011 at 19:47.

  6. #6

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    James McCudden stated that a Sopwith Pup couldn`t keep up with an Elephant `once it had dropped it`s eggs`
    I`d go with the `K` deck.
    All Martinsydes were immensely strong, that could be construed as `over engineered`
    Many of ol` tinsydes attributes don`t count for much in wow...eg
    Excellent gliding ability ( looked upon as floating badly )
    Long range, and a high diving speed (heavy engine strong relatively clean airframe)
    And carried 260lbs of bombs (that`s a lot for the time)
    On reviewing my references, the Martinsyde Elephant was capable of carrying a single RAF 336lb bomb
    Last edited by batesyboy; 07-28-2011 at 07:00.

  7. #7

    Default Another pic, this time with both lewis guns attached

    When test flying, the overwing lewis went missing,,,here`s a piccy with a new lewis
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails latest%20elephant[1].jpg  

  8. #8

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    Looking at the rear gun I would think that it could only be used up and out to the left with any accuracy.
    I would think that you would need to restrict it's arc of fire to be from the tail to 60 degrees from mount.
    Linz

  9. #9

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    According to Munson, the rear lewis was not seen in pics, and he assumes that it was removed to save weight. Given the extreme difficulties in piloting a plane while reaching over your left shoulder to fire a MG, I'd just leave that off the card.
    Otherwise, the stats look fine.
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #10

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    My references for building the model...
    Windsock Datafile 70 Martinsyde Elephant by J M Bruce
    And the Martinsyde File by Ray Sanger
    Both publications have scale drawings and photographs of the left (Port) side, rear firing Lewis gun.
    These guns were fitted soon after 27 squadron reached France and used from 13th March 1916
    The Martinsyde Elephant fits in the early bird bracket
    Batesyboy

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by IRM View Post
    Not very good, it wasn't called the Elephant for nothing God knows how John Gilmour got 3 kills in one Ended up being used for photo-recon and ground attack.

    "Lt. Stuart Campbell who joined 27 Squadron in 1917 described the Martinsyde as "a delightful machine for leisurely pleasure but totally unsuitable for daylight bombing or indeed any kind of war mission". He described it as very slow and sluggish on the controls when loaded with bombs. On bombing missions the aircraft could take two hours to reach the typical operational height of 15,000 ft. Campbell commented that the only defence when attacked was to go into a dive and zig-zag for home."
    source:http://www.apw.airwar1.org.uk/g100.htm

    I'd look at the K manoeuvre deck (yep, the bomber one), it's about the right speed band (83mph for the .100 model, about 95 for the .102 with the 160hp engine). Altitude would be 9 (for the .100, add a level or two for the .102), climb rate is perhaps 5 (if I'm being charitable), maybe go with 13 hits (fairly big, so on the high end for fighters of it's generation). Guns are B/B, both Lewis guns (pilot obviously can't shoot both at once and the rear gun will need a restricted arc, maybe remove the rear right part). Carries up to 260lb bombs.
    At the time Campbell joined 27 squadron, the Elephant had already been in front-line service for a year

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by batesyboy View Post
    My references for building the model...
    Windsock Datafile 70 Martinsyde Elephant by J M Bruce
    And the Martinsyde File by Ray Sanger
    Both publications have scale drawings and photographs of the left (Port) side, rear firing Lewis gun.
    These guns were fitted soon after 27 squadron reached France and used from 13th March 1916
    The Martinsyde Elephant fits in the early bird bracket
    Batesyboy
    Well, if the rear gun stays, you'll have to come up with some modifier for the difficulty.
    That said, it gets to have a summer of fun against the Fokker Es, and the Halderstadt Ds, until the Fall when the Albatri show up.
    BTW, in case I haven't said it before, the model looks great. Does make me think about paper.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  13. #13

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    Found this searching the Aerodrome (inbetween bouts of housework )
    "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Reputedly it was first designed by then Lt. Strange, a well known early R.F.C. pilot. It consisted of an inverted "L" of tube, hinged at the angle, with a guiding quadrant attached to the vertical element. The vertical element rested in a socket which allowed the thing to be pivoted, while the hinge allowed elevation. It was commonly used for observer's weapons on B.E. 2c types, and some others, and on these sometimes was also fitted for the pilot, either in a forward and to one side position, or in the same rear and to one side position as on the Martinsyde. B.E. 12 single seaters also often had a gun fitted in the same manner. It was usually on the port side, where it would be most convenient for a right-handed pilot to wield.

    The pilot was indeed expected to half-turn in his cockpit and try to aim the thing, and I share your doubts as to any real effectiveness such an effort might have had. The Martinsyde was, though, a very stable machine: the pilot might have been able to devote some real attention to the task even while turning, and its natural field of fire would have accorded well with where a more nimble aeroplane in the process of out-turning a Martinsyde circling leftwards could be expected to be. It is worth noting that in the early period the R.F.C. expected its pilots to be rather one-man bands on occassion: in R.F.C. two seaters, it was then generally the pilot's job, not the observer's, to spot the fall of shells and work the wireless key on artillery shoots, and also the pilot's job to trip the shutter of the camera on photographic missions, though the observer generally changed the plates. "

    Also found some photos from the Australian War Memorial site. In case you hadn't seen them:
    http://www.awm.gov.au/search/collect...&submit=Search

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus



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