Advanced Cockpit

[Oberst Hajj]

The Advanced Cockpit has been a long time in development and testing. It has under gone several design revisions based on play testing and production expenses. Below is what the finale Advanced Cockpit will have and look like. It has been optimized to allow you to track and use many of the most popular optional and house rules. It works very well with the Knights of the Air campaign rules.

The Advanced Cockpit is available now.

Benefits

1. Maneuver Deck place holder
2. Ammo place holder (for use with Limited Ammo house rules)
3. Aircraft Stat card place holder
4. Damage and +1 Optional rule Damage place holders
5. Damage Dial to track how much damage your plane has taken (no more counting damage points during the game!)
6. Maneuver selection slots (with the maneuver cards facing you, you will never make a wrong turn again!)
7. Altitude Dial (Easily keep track of your planes altitude and number of climb counters with out the use of counters or pen and paper!)
8. Ace Skill selection slots (When your pilot becomes an Ace, keep your Ace Skill cards handy to use against your enemy!)
9. Comes apart for easy storage and transport

[Burt]

Well Herr Oberst these Cockpits look the Bees Knees to me.
I wasn't too interested before but having seen them in the flesh I think I will have to get some.
Don

[Skullduggery]

now that looks sharp !

[Ginarley]

Looks very cool

Did you find in play testing that the damage dial added much to gameplay? My initial impression is that we probably wouldn't use it since the cards are right there anyway but it might be one of those things that once you try it you never go back...

[Boney10]

Now that looks nice, nice indeed.. my thats another order when they come in, at least 4 (sigh).
Just a question about the damage dial, is it not visable to the opposing pilots so they will be able to see how much life is left on your plane or is the back plate opaque at that point ?

[flash]

Nice job Keith - can you fit a throttle on one side & a stick in the middle?!!

[Guntruck]

We are liking these a lot!

What it really needs is an electronic gizmo so that you can make 'dagga dagga dagga' noises when you get on someone's tail.

[usmc1855]

I like it! I'll be standing by to make my pre-order as soon as your ready to accept it,

[Dan-Sam]

Keith, do you thinking about creating separate altimeters? They can be based on plexiglas squere sized like flak markers. I think it will be a good alternative to flight stands.

[richard m schwab]

Keith!

Great idea! Do not forget the DOW crowd!


Rich

[Oberst Hajj]

Looks very cool

Did you find in play testing that the damage dial added much to gameplay? My initial impression is that we probably wouldn't use it since the cards are right there anyway but it might be one of those things that once you try it you never go back...

I've found it pretty handy. You do have to make your self use it in the beginning, but after you get used to turning the dial, it's very easy to just glance down and see how much damage you have. It is also great for keeping it a secret how close to going down you really are... when my opponents see people looking through there damage cards and counting, they know we are at least getting close to going down... it's like blood in the water!

Now that looks nice, nice indeed.. my thats another order when they come in, at least 4 (sigh).
Just a question about the damage dial, is it not visable to the opposing pilots so they will be able to see how much life is left on your plane or is the back plate opaque at that point ?

Per the part in the first post , the finial product will not be made out of the tinted acrylic so you will not be able to see through it.

Nice job Keith - can you fit a throttle on one side & a stick in the middle?!!

I've working with someone on a different project that should fill that need for you

Keith, do you thinking about creating separate altimeters? They can be based on plexiglas squere sized like flak markers. I think it will be a good alternative to flight stands.

So, you are wanting just a small altitude dial to keep close at hand? I'm sure I could use the Flak base and my normal dials and just offer them as an Altitude Dial product... would that work?

Keith!

Great idea! Do not forget the DOW crowd!

As long as sells of these are good, I'll make a DOW version. In the past, DOW only products sell only a small percentage of what WOW products do

[Dan-Sam]

So, you are wanting just a small altitude dial to keep close at hand? I'm sure I could use the Flak base and my normal dials and just offer them as an Altitude Dial product... would that work?

Yes, you described it exactly! Thank you!
I have some question about hangars - I will send a PM (hope today).

[Ginarley]

I've found it pretty handy. You do have to make your self use it in the beginning, but after you get used to turning the dial, it's very easy to just glance down and see how much damage you have. It is also great for keeping it a secret how close to going down you really are... when my opponents see people looking through there damage cards and counting, they know we are at least getting close to going down... it's like blood in the water

Cool - do you find people notice you moving the dial when you get damage (i.e. that wasn't a zero)? I have actually thought about a card holder for damage cards (like you have here for manoeuvre cards) to get around the card counting problem. Hmmm that might be an alternative use for the rear card slot...

[Aero825]

Amazing!!!!!!!!! I love it!!!!

[Oberst Hajj]

Cool - do you find people notice you moving the dial when you get damage (i.e. that wasn't a zero)? I have actually thought about a card holder for damage cards (like you have here for manoeuvre cards) to get around the card counting problem. Hmmm that might be an alternative use for the rear card slot...

If they are watching you that closely, just wait to turn your dial when you are planning your next set of moves. Or do what I do, "turn" the dial regardless if it is a point or a 0. Just pretending like this is enough to throw them off.

Another thought for you, if you are not using Ace Skills, those card slots will be open. You could use one for 0s, one for normal damage points and one for the +1 damage points. But at some point they are going to figure out which slot you use for what... again, if they are watching that close.

[Lugburz]

Quick question: I see that you're using altitude pegs to hold down the damage and altitude dials. Are players expected to glue these into the control panel so they become a permanent fixture, or can they be removed and used for planes? If they are removable, how easy are they to get in & out of place.

I ask only because this is what would make or break an order for me. I have not been blessed with the good fortune of owning "extras" or duplicate planes whose pegs I can pilfer for other uses. As you know, I display all of my planes on their stands and bases. This is another reason why I'm hesitant to buy the gimbal mounts. I'd like to get them but I don't have extra pegs to use (which is why I would buy lots of extra pegs if you ever got them into production).

[Oberst Hajj]

Quick question: I see that you're using altitude pegs to hold down the damage and altitude dials. Are players expected to glue these into the control panel so they become a permanent fixture, or can they be removed and used for planes? If they are removable, how easy are they to get in & out of place.

I ask only because this is what would make or break an order for me. I have not been blessed with the good fortune of owning "extras" or duplicate planes whose pegs I can pilfer for other uses. As you know, I display all of my planes on their stands and bases. This is another reason why I'm hesitant to buy the gimbal mounts. I'd like to get them but I don't have extra pegs to use (which is why I would buy lots of extra pegs if you ever got them into production).

The dials require pegs just like my bases. These vids might help you:

Aerodrome Accessories Flight stand/center peg

Gimbal Mounts

[OrlokSubedei]

Will sleeved cards fit into slots? I sleeve all my cards to reduce wear (although not necessarily a constant issue in WoW since the damage decks are the ones that get the constant shuffling) and prevent damage from drink spills and "cheetos" fingers.

[Oberst Hajj]

I don't have sleeves to test them, but they should. The slots are slightly wider then the cards and much thicker.

[OrlokSubedei]

Here is a picture with a width measurement. The sleeves are supposed to be 45mm wide, but there can be some variance. The ruler says that the card sleeves are very close to 47mm wide.

[Skullduggery]

Looks very cool

Did you find in play testing that the damage dial added much to gameplay? My initial impression is that we probably wouldn't use it since the cards are right there anyway but it might be one of those things that once you try it you never go back...

I have played with a group that has a house rule for damage. When they take damage they write it down and shuffle the cards back in. This way they try to keep the odds of drawing any single card the same.

[Boney10]

We are liking these a lot!

What it really needs is an electronic gizmo so that you can make 'dagga dagga dagga' noises when you get on someone's tail.

ooops I thought that was the noice we were supposed to make while playing no wonder I been getting strange looks oh well back to the mess

[Oberst Hajj]

Here is a picture with a width measurement. The sleeves are supposed to be 45mm wide, but there can be some variance. The ruler says that the card sleeves are very close to 47mm wide.

The slots are 44mm wide. If the sleeves are mostly 47mm, that would require at least 48mm slots (need room to fit). There is not enough room for me to squeeze that much extra space in for each slot.

I have played with a group that has a house rule for damage. When they take damage they write it down and shuffle the cards back in. This way they try to keep the odds of drawing any single card the same.

Yes, the damage dial would work great for those that use this house rule.

[Tommy Z]

Very nice...(checks credit card balance)

[wargamer]

Oh, nicely done. Checking accounts.... and these will be available when? (hopefully funds will be in by then)

[richard m schwab]

Keith!

I will live with that sad news! We DOW players will have to hope our turn comes!


P.S. A solid back and sides would confuse any sharp eyed enemy!


Rich

[Oberst Hajj]

Rich, I will not rule out a "Group Buy" for some of the DoW stuff if it is needed. The new laser shop has really quick turn around and that makes all the difference in the world with doing small runs.

[gully_raker]

That looks Fantastic Keith! Great work!

Do you have a cost for them yet?

[Oberst Hajj]

Price is still being worked out. I will say these will not be cheap. There is a lot of acrylic and laser time cutting and etching the things!

[Naharaht]

Are those 'Ace skill cards' somewhere in the files, please?

[tuladin]

Are those 'Ace skill cards' somewhere in the files, please?

They're right here.

[richard m schwab]

Keith!

The DOW version could be smaller than the WOW cockpit! Only two maneuver slots, which means one card narrower! Keep us in mind!


Rich

[Oberst Hajj]

Are those 'Ace skill cards' somewhere in the files, please?

tuladin linked to some Ace Skill cards, but the ones in my photo are going to be part of Knights of the Air 2

They're right here.

Not quite the same, have a look at my reply just above your quote. Thanks for link to those cards though, it's always good to get more info out there!

Keith!

The DOW version could be smaller than the WOW cockpit! Only two maneuver slots, which means one card narrower! Keep us in mind!


Rich

Good point Rich. Don't worry, you DoW guys are always in mind!

[BobP]

WOW WOW WOW they look as the valley girls sa AWESOME. Have to place an order. You better be making a few hundred.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

That is a must have Herr Oberst.
Rob.

[Naharaht]

Thank you, Tuladin.

[schoon]

Very, very nice. I will have to add those to my Aerodrome box!

[Sheryl Nantus]

oooh... I like!

[Naharaht]

Could Shapeways produce spare altitude pegs?

[Albert Ross]

Could Shapeways produce spare altitude pegs?

Now there's a thought!

They already produce jewelry and beads, so clear acrylic pegs should be cheap, simple and sell by the bag full - the only possible issue here could be copyright, but that can be got around by changing the specification slightly.
That might not be a bad idea anyway as I personally would prefer Litko style 1", 1.5" and 2" pegs for scouts and 2 seaters.

Is Duann on here?

[Bartman]

Keith this is a great looking product! Good work.

Can't wait to get these to the table.

[Oberst Hajj]

Could Shapeways produce spare altitude pegs?

I can tell you how these would look here in a couple of weeks as I have one of just about ever material ordered and in production already. Not to get this thread off topic, but I don't really think Shapeways will work for flight pegs. I don't know how clear they will be with all the layer lines and such. I have ordered them just for fitment testing of my CAD files before having "real" pegs made up.

[Wolf]

Well there goes pay check again WOW.

[Doug]

I would like to put in for a bulk buy of at least six, as they are going to make great Christmas presents.

[Big Al]

Keith!

Great idea! Do not forget the DOW crowd!


Rich

Won't these do for DOW as well? I know ideally we would like one for each, but if it isn't worth Keith making a different one because of low take up, surely this will fit the bill for both games?

Al

[Boney10]

Per the part in the first post , the finial product will not be made out of the tinted acrylic so you will not be able to see through it.

So it does.. ok Oberst have cleaned my glasses now

[Oberst Hajj]

Won't these do for DOW as well? I know ideally we would like one for each, but if it isn't worth Keith making a different one because of low take up, surely this will fit the bill for both games?

Al

You could use these for DoW, but many of the features of them would be of no use and the ones that could be used would have to be "fudged" a little to work. Well, that altitude and damage dials would work as is.

[Redwolf]

excellent I love em

how easy would it be to convert for WWII ? and the tokens used there ?

[Oberst Hajj]

A conversion would not really work. For DoW a complete redesign would really be in order. They could/would be smaller for starters.... but that's another thread.

[Bixby]

Looking Great Keith!!