UNNOFICIAL THREAD: ANSALDO SV A5.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

As the previous thread please gents. Stats.
Rob.

[Attila57]

From this site:

http://thedecadetheaircraftwenttowar...o-sva-5-primo/

SVA5 specifications (the same of Wikipedia article):

Specifications (SVA.5)
General characteristics
Crew: one pilot
Length: 8.10 m (26 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 9.10 m (29 ft 10 in)
Height: 2.65 m (8 ft 8 in)
Wing area: 24.2 m² (260 ft²)
Empty weight: 680 kg (1,500 lb)
Gross weight: 1,050 kg (2,320 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × SPA 6A, 150 kW (200 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 230 km/h (140 mph)
Endurance: 3 hours
Service ceiling: 6,000 m (19,700 ft)
Rate of climb: 5 m/s (980 ft/min)
Armament
2 × syncrhonised .303 Vickers machine gun
up to 90 kg (200 lb) of bombs

Attilio

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Another vote of thanks Attilio. At this rate I'll have to take out a second mortgage to buy you all the drinks I owe you.
Rob.

[Linz]

With a speed like that you are looking at either A or N, Guns are an A, Ceiling 13 or 14, 5 m/s equals 3 mins 30secs to 1000m 10 mins to 3000m so without actual stated times to those heights then the climb rate would be 2. Not sure on construction but think 14/15 for damage
Linz

[Wombat]

It has to be an "A" maneuver deck for that one. It wasn't as manoeuvrable as a S.E.5 ("N"-deck), but still as fast.

[Attila57]

Another vote of thanks Attilio. At this rate I'll have to take out a second mortgage to buy you all the drinks I owe you.
Rob.

Thx!

[Linz]

With not knowing the aircraft I am working purely from the stats posted we probably need more information re climb and altitude.
Linz

[The Cowman]

Aren't these supposed to be "Unofficial Plane" threads? I was very confused at first by the Unoffiical Thread title... but then again I get very easily confused sometimes...

[Linz]

So what have we got so far.
A A 15 Ceiling 14 Climb Rate 2
That's a pretty efficient aircraft.
Linz

[john snelling]

I would lower the damage to 14.

[john snelling]

What was wrong with the plane was the lack of maneuverability. The A deck is used by the Spad XIII (not a bad aircraft). I do not believe giving the SVA.5 the same maneuverability as a Spad reflects this. I suggest removing a left turn and a right turn to represent the lacj of maneuverability.

[Guntruck]

With not knowing the aircraft I am working purely from the stats posted we probably need more information re climb and altitude.
Linz

You mean 1minute 40 to 3280 feet, 4 minutes 30 to 6500 feet, 8 minutes 10 to 10000 feet, 25 minutes to 20000 feet and a ceiling of 22000 feet, that sort of thing?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

You mean 1minute 40 to 3280 feet, 4 minutes 30 to 6500 feet, 8 minutes 10 to 10000 feet, 25 minutes to 20000 feet and a ceiling of 22000 feet, that sort of thing?

Exactly that Gunners.LMSO.
Rob.

[Guntruck]

Sorry, can't help you

[Linz]

With those climb rates 2 would be correct and a ceiling of 14
Linz

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I now have a plane and no decision on its stats to fly it. Could you chaps help me any further to a conclusion or shall I just decide for myself?
Rob.

[john snelling]

Let me know what you come up with. The lack of mobility was the reason why it was unsuitable for being utilized as a fighter. Other planes from SVA were:
SVA.1 - single prototype
SVA.2 - 65 production aircraft
It displayed exceptional speed but, inherently stable, was considered to lack the manoeuvrability demanded for fighter-versus-fighter combat. However, its excellent range rendered it suitable for the reconnaissance fighter role, and the Aviazione Militare decided to adopt the S.V.A. for this task. Deliveries of the initial production version, the S.V.A.2, had meanwhile commenced in the autumn of 1917, 65 being built by the year's end and this model being assigned to training.
ISVA - (Idroplane - "seaplane") float-equipped version. 50 built for Italian navy
SVA.3 Ridotto ("Reduced") - fast-climbing interceptor variant for anti-Zeppelin defence. Some fitted with additional oblique-firing machine gun
Built under licence by the AER concern at Orbassano, the S.V.A.3 was a reconnaissance fighter production derivative of the S.V.A. fighter, and essentially similar to the S.V.A.4 built in parallel by the Ansaldo factories at Borzoli and Bolzaneto. In the spring of 1918 a special interceptor version was produced, this having wings of reduced span and area. Known as the S.V.A.3 ridotto (reduced), this model was used primarily for airship interception, and although standard armament remained two synchronised 7.7mm Vickers guns, some examples were fitted with an additional weapon firing upwards at an oblique angle. Power was provided by an SPA6A engine of 220hp.
3-View
SVA.5 - definitive production version
SVA.6 - prototype bomber version
SVA.8 - single prototype; nature unclear
SVA.9 - two-seat unarmed reconnaissance version with larger wings. Intended as pathfinder for SVA.5 formations, and as trainer
SVA.10 - two-seat armed reconnaissance version with 250 hp Isotta-Fraschini engine and fitted with single forward firing gun and a Lewis gun on a flexible mounting in the rear cockpit

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks john. That may well help us to formulate some stats for the aircraft.
Rob.

[john snelling]

With the lack of mobility being the major issue I suggest taking out 1 left turn and 1 right turn out of the A deck. A guns would be good. Damage of 15 sound around right. These are the stats I'm going to use as soon as I build the 2 SAV-5 I have.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

With the lack of mobility being the major issue I suggest taking out 1 left turn and 1 right turn out of the A deck. A guns would be good. Damage of 15 sound around right. These are the stats I'm going to use as soon as I build the 2 SAV-5 I have.

Thanks John. Sounds a reasonable idea. Anyone else any comments before I get my card printed?
Rob.

[john snelling]

It looks like S.V.A.5 A/A/15 the A man. deck with 1 left turn and 1 right turn removed.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks John.
Those are the stats I will send to Max.
Rob.

[batesyboy]

I know it`s supposed to be all about stats (this thread)
So i`ll ask your permission before i post pictures of my thirteen inch wingspan SVA 5 flying model....lol

By the way, i agree with the general gist of the thread, The SVA 5 was fast, strong but couldn`t manouvre for toffee !

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I know it`s supposed to be all about stats (this thread)
So i`ll ask your permission before i post pictures of my thirteen inch wingspan SVA 5 flying model....lol

By the way, i agree with the general gist of the thread, The SVA 5 was fast, strong but couldn`t manouvre for toffee !

I've never been one to stand in the way of progress Lee. Publish and be damned.
Oh! It will cost you a large G&T in the mess though. You can only take friendship so far .
Kyte.

[john snelling]

Thanks Rob and batesyboy please post your pics I would love seeing it.

[batesyboy]

Well here she is, starting to show her age a bit (over ten years old now)
She is rubber powered, and still flies really nicely
The artwork is printed on to tissue paper which skins a 2mm polystyrene foam airframe.
The artwork will be converted to 1/144th scale one day, but alas not enough hours in the day at the moment !
Cheers
Batesyboy

[batesyboy]

One G&T at the Bar !

[Flying Officer Kyte]

She looks great for her age Lee. if anything it adds to the realism. i'd love to see her in 144 scale one day.
Rob.

[Max Headroom]

Till you supply me with your own colours:

[Zoe Brain]

Cuurent thinking (subject to change) is to remove 1 left and 1 right sideslip to create an A* deck for this aircraft.

A* - A - 15 Ceiling 14 CR 2

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Till you supply me with your own colours:

Looks great to me Alan.
Rob.

[Pseudotheist]

Seems to me that if you're trying to cut back on maneuverability from an A deck, the Immelman should be the first thing to go. I don't think taking away sideslips will make it noticeably "too stable for fighter tactics"... well, maybe if you took away ALL the sideslips...

[Zoe Brain]

Seems to me that if you're trying to cut back on maneuverability from an A deck, the Immelman should be the first thing to go.

It was really good going in a straight line. It was really good in sustaining a continous turn (due to the power of the aircraft meaning it didn't lose height). Excellent climb. Immelmans are no problem. However, roll rate and yaw.... not so good. Terrible, in fact.

In game terms, this one really has to boom and zoom, fighting in the vertical using raw power, because it can't manouver for nuts. In some ways, only having one sideslip really does show how a small change can model the lack of manouverability well. Getting rid of the Immelman on an aircraft that could obviously do it better than most others would be absurd, it defies credulity. Similarly, NO aircraft in the entire game, no matter how lumbering, is unable to turn 180 degrees in 3 moves. All have at least 3 60 degree turns.

[Pseudotheist]

Excellent climb. Immelmans are no problem.

Do we know this from accounts, or are we assuming based on climb rate? I believe the "classic" Immelman maneuver requires a fair amount of roll mobility.

Of course there's not too many viable options when trying to make a plane less maneuverable than a SPAD...

[john snelling]

She looks great for her age Lee. if anything it adds to the realism. i'd love to see her in 144 scale one day.
Rob.

The plane is available through Reviresco and the decal set is really nice. I have two. Sooner or later Shapeways will have them.

[Zoe Brain]

Do we know this from accounts, or are we assuming based on climb rate? I believe the "classic" Immelman maneuver requires a fair amount of roll mobility.

The classic, not really - you're inverted, (usually) on the way down in a shallow dive, low on airspeed, even a slpw roll is enough to go upright again.

Now a chandelle, or go-vertical-then-roll-then-pull out in an arbitrary direction- that's another matter.

Of course there's not too many viable options when trying to make a plane less maneuverable than a SPAD...

Correct. Please have a look at the deck analysis at http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...do=file&id=951

You'll see that in order to add manoeuverability, first add sideslips, then change sideslips to radical sideslips, then add 90 degree turns etc.

A Spad XIII can be considered to be the (hypothetical) base deck of a plane-that-goes-very-fast then add some manouverability, an extra sideslip each side.

[john snelling]

It was really good going in a straight line. It was really good in sustaining a continous turn (due to the power of the aircraft meaning it didn't lose height). Excellent climb. Immelmans are no problem. However, roll rate and yaw.... not so good. Terrible, in fact.

In game terms, this one really has to boom and zoom, fighting in the vertical using raw power, because it can't manouver for nuts. In some ways, only having one sideslip really does show how a small change can model the lack of manouverability well. Getting rid of the Immelman on an aircraft that could obviously do it better than most others would be absurd, it defies credulity. Similarly, NO aircraft in the entire game, no matter how lumbering, is unable to turn 180 degrees in 3 moves. All have at least 3 60 degree turns.

I agree with your statements. How do you replicate a aircraft that was so unmaneuverable that it was unsuitable to be a fighter. Having no sideslips is not enough restriction in my opinion. I am the one that suggested to reduce to take out one turn because it was easy. You can still perform a 180 turn in three phases but just not in one turn. I'm not being defensive and I'm open to any solutions. What do you recommend?

[eriko76]

I want to add a little historical note on this plane that is so dear to us Italians.
It was used for the Flight over Vienna, an epic action performed by Italian poet and nationalist patriot Gabriele D'Annunzio on 9 August 1918. With 11 Ansaldo S.V.A. from his team, the 87ma squadriglia called "La Serenissima", he flew for over 1,200 km in a roundtrip from the squadron's military airfield near San Pelagio near Padua to Vienna to drop some 400000 of propaganda leaflets.

Enrico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_over_Vienna

[john snelling]

I want to add a little historical note on this plane that is so dear to us Italians.
It was used for the Flight over Vienna, an epic action performed by Italian poet and nationalist patriot Gabriele D'Annunzio on 9 August 1918. With 11 Ansaldo S.V.A. from his team, the 87ma squadriglia called "La Serenissima", he flew for over 1,200 km in a roundtrip from the squadron's military airfield near San Pelagio near Padua to Vienna to drop some 400000 of propaganda leaflets.

Enrico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_over_Vienna

What a great accomplishment. The plane had remarkable speed and range and it was a very good looking aircraft. Other than Michele Allasia of the 5th Sezione SVA did any other pilots have success with this plane. Leopoldo Eleuteri was the only one to score with the Balilla.