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View Poll Results: Do you play with the explosion card in damage deck(s)?

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  • Yes

    300 79.58%
  • No

    77 20.42%
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Thread: Do you play with the explosion card in damage deck(s)?

  1. #201

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    Boom boom boom boom, I'm gonna shoot you right down!

  2. #202

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    I play with it; if the scenario involves heavy bombers, they take 15 points for an explosion card.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  3. #203

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    Excellent suggestion, Karl. I've been hesitant to use the explosion card against the bombers, seems just a little...I don't know, disappointing from a game playing point of view. Particularly in tournament play, where a gaggle of single-seaters go up against a big one or two.

  4. #204

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    In a bomber mission, to have the lethal Boom you need multiple bombers. If its tournament play or with less planes then I'd agree it is much better to have the Boom = 1/2 a plane's starting damage.
    Last edited by Teaticket; 02-02-2016 at 12:46.

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    Excellent suggestion, Karl. I've been hesitant to use the explosion card against the bombers, seems just a little...I don't know, disappointing from a game playing point of view. Particularly in tournament play, where a gaggle of single-seaters go up against a big one or two.
    I remember one game (at FloorWars up here) where the first shot at a Gotha hit the bombs
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I remember one game (at FloorWars up here) where the first shot at a Gotha hit the bombs
    Karl
    gee i wish i had a reichsmark for every time etc, etc, etc.......

  7. #207

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    Unfortunately there were times when even WW2 heavy bombers were vulnerable to single shot kills: Admittedly most of the ones I know of were as a result of FLAK and this does exist in WGS where AA Defences are able to fire all but one category of Damage Tokens. As we all know categories A B C and D all contain an Explosion Token. However some of these single shot kills came from the air: More than likely from bullets penetrating fuel tanks before self-sealing fuel tanks came into use. This again is me being quite a stickler for historical fact and accuracy even if it potentially comes at the expense of gameplay.

    The only exception I make is when using Basic Rules for a game where it recommends the removal of all Explosion Chits anyway. The reason being is that if I am using Basic Rules these days it is in connection with new players

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    In a bomber mission, to have the lethal Boom you need multiple bombers. If its tournament play or with less planes then I'd agree it is much better to have the Boom = 1/2 a planes remaining damage.
    Remaining damage ... What if the remaining damage is 2 ? A boom card equals 1 ?! That doesn't seem proportionate. Half damage is a reasonable compromise as once well into the game it's likely to prove fatal anyway.
    We did discuss this at WotSEII but went with Boom! means Boom! - we did have 9 WW1 bombers to carve through though and the Boom! came in very handy

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #209

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    I don't know how 'remaining' snuck in there. Oops. Half of a plane's starting damage was what I meant. I was just commenting on the idea posted above. I've only used Boom as full Boom, or with my random event list.

  10. #210

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    I tried this once with the explosions removed due to a friend insisting everyone removes them and it was the dullest game ever. The fear of insta-death is what makes the game exciting. Its also a good equalizer - no matter how good a player you are or how tough your plane is your still facing that same risk that a novice player does.

  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by strontiumdog View Post
    I tried this once with the explosions removed due to a friend insisting everyone removes them and it was the dullest game ever. The fear of insta-death is what makes the game exciting. Its also a good equalizer - no matter how good a player you are or how tough your plane is your still facing that same risk that a novice player does.
    I share a similar experience.

  12. #212

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    For Japanese aircraft they're a must-have.

    I have a 5-deck boot now, so pulling a kaboom doesn't mean anyone is safe. It also means it's a bugger to pull them out and put them back in when somebody doesn't want them in there, so for games where we don't want them we leave them in and replace any that come up with a normal damage card. Works fine.

    We generally play with fuel and ammunition rules, so getting knocked out of a big game isn't a crisis. Most plays last 30 minutes so, so getting knocked out in minute 10 isn't a big deal with three more plays on the way.

  13. #213

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    I'm not 100% sure if the WW2 rules are the same as the WWI rules on this. I know WGF has you reshuffle the damage cards back into the deck when a plane is destroyed. So, a BOOM card is always in the deck even when you play with only one damage deck.

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I'm not 100% sure if the WW2 rules are the same as the WWI rules on this. I know WGF has you reshuffle the damage cards back into the deck when a plane is destroyed. So, a BOOM card is always in the deck even when you play with only one damage deck.
    IIRC, you throw all the chits from the downed planes back into the chit bins/bags. So, any damage done is returned, if the plane goes down, including pilot wounds, fires, engine damage...

    Yup. Just checked the rules, and all the damage chits are returned to their "respective groups". So, the Boom Chit is always in play.

    This applies in WWI, too. When the plane is removed from play, all its damage cards are reshuffled into their respective decks. No reprieve from the Boom Card there, either.

    PS: This means I need to photograph the damage to the plane while soloing, not save the cards on the console until the end of the game like I have been doing. Darn! More record-keeping, or more fiddling around to display the Butcher's Bill at the end, if planes have the same special damage...
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  15. #215

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    I play with this card in damage decks, but with its value equal to half damage points of the plane...

  16. #216

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    I play with it as well. As some have mentioned it seems to level the playing field a bit if playing with newer players. I just try and make sure people have something else to operate when they draw it early. Whether that's a reinforcing plane or in some cases AA guns as the scenario works.

  17. #217

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    I tend to. It's nice to see Пилот disintegrate in the air

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Копилот View Post
    It's nice to see Пилот disintegrate in the air
    Bit bloodthirsty?

  19. #219

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    Oh, yes, she is...

  20. #220

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    What do you (everyone) think about the No Explosion option in the new WoG WWI giants release?

  21. #221

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    Makes perfect sense to me. Why would an airplane made out of pinewood and cloth coated in flammable chemicals that's carrying contact bombs and high octane gasoline be susceptible to sudden explosions?

  22. #222

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    A No Explosion option? Sounds bobbins to me ...

    I don't even play the Avro Vulcan XH560 in action with a No Explosion option! But what I can see an element of creeping in here is the age-old Are We Gamers or Are We Historians? Debate. Thing is ... on a few related threads now Members are trying to work out how to bring the Staaken in particular down: Could this accidentally take the Are We Gamers aspect of that debate too far and accidentally create a game-killer in the process?

    Are we ready for another pun? Thought so - Members looking into how to make a Striicken out of the Staaken have posted on at least two threads relating to the WGF Giants.

  23. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonx View Post
    [...] But what I can see an element of creeping in here is the age-old Are We Gamers or Are We Historians? Debate.
    In my brief experience here I too, unfortunately, have see this . I wanted to find a balanced bombing and observation game to play some scenarios with the planes I own. While I did get one answer that was close I also got 'read history books' and 'war isn't fair, neither should games'. Another posted a list of bombers and the weight capacity, and a few comments on why it is a poor choice to balance games, etc.

    The thing is, this is a game that uses a historical context. Some people like to play it because of history, some people gain a fondness for history because of it. Yet there are still others that just like to play fun games with neat miniatures (army men for grown ups). And a few that straddle several labels.

    I, for one, am glad it doesn't have to be played one way exclusively. I have played games for several years and enjoy a good balanced game between similarly skilled players; in those game historical accuracy may suffer. But others prefer to recreate historical battles. Regardless if we want to enjoin more new players we don't need to get stuffy because they may enjoy the game for reasons other than our own. The high ground we might take is but a mount of dust we simply kicked up in a fuss.

    So my novice answer to "Are we Gamers or Are we Historians?" is: The game should be fine for both types of players though they may not always want to play together. Regardless of that we should be appreciative and helpful to all who wish to enjoy the game for whatever reason.


    I realize I'm new so please forgive me if my response sounded more like a soap box lecture.

  24. #224

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    Sounds like we didn't help you much with our thoughts or suggestions in answer to your game query thread Ken. Did you manage to select some models for those scenario's to try out, or, are you still looking for more specific suggestions ?

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Sounds like we didn't help you much with our thoughts or suggestions in answer to your game query thread Ken. Did you manage to select some models for those scenario's to try out, or, are you still looking for more specific suggestions ?
    Actually you did help quite a bit. Thank you. But I ended up putting everything away and didn't think of it until I saw the Giants begin to arrive. Then I got into a rush to look at the game again. I'm fond of the historical aspect and have been a gamer for some time so this feels like a good fit.

    Rushing through the articles the best ones I found were the stickies. Which, by the way, you mentioned. I found the best was General overview of released minis - WWI. This shows me what came out with each Wave and they kind of go together.

    I just started getting back interested so I haven't gotten to A Tactical Walk Through of Scouts. But it looks like Point system for Wings of Glory. Will help me get in some planes that don't have matches in waves from the other thread. Like the Fokker D.VII which is the only one I have from that Wave.


    Funny this subject came up since just started reading these posts and I'm actually working on the squads now. And..... maybe, just maybe I'm considering buying a few more. Two things caught my eye. Weaker (point wise) pilots that have skills which may over come their planes perceived deficiencies. Also the idea of flying multiples of the same aircraft sound neat. I do however need to limit my expenses but with a good collection and one could get enough variety to last a while. Of course if Balloons or Zeppelins ever come out I'll have to a set of those.


    [Edit] Thank you again,

  26. #226

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    You have a reasonably broad coverage of the scouts Ken, so doubling up on your favourites is not a bad idea at all; I'd say another Camel & Fok D.VII for sure. You'll hopefully get a chance to add a RE8 two seater to the collection later this year (or early next!) with the reprint of Series 3 that I'd recommend, and get a Hannover for the Germans as that's a lively two seater to play.

    "He is wise who watches"

  27. #227

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    Horses for courses.

    I personally am happy to play either with or against the odds, so exact points totals don't matter.
    Indeed, I'm currently mid-nightmare trying to sort out a list for an Ancients battle at my club tonight! It would be so much easier to just go with what feels right to me, but everyone insists on exact points, so I have to keep juggling!

    Best for a mission might be to have one or two two-seaters, protected by a couple of scouts, intercepted by three or four enemy scouts. If one side has a "better" plane in one match-up, ensure that the other side also has a "better" plane out of the next pair. Exact points shouldn't matter, so long as fun is had!


    The "boom" card is a great leveller, anyway!

  28. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    ...The "boom" card is a great leveller, anyway!
    Ain't it just !

    "He is wise who watches"

  29. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    I realize I'm new so please forgive me if my response sounded more like a soap box lecture.
    Ken, you may be new here but like you also mention we as a community appreciate and help newcomers and Fairly New Players - FNPs. But IMHO we encourage contributions / activity the most and your posting is not a soap box lecture it's an interesting elaboration I noticed on a matter I introduced to this conversation topic.

    Almost exactly a year ago I rolled up at the Aerodrome wanting to conscientiously not controversially participate actively in the day-to-day goings on with the site and then as a result the game. What a year it has been as a result where I made of my membership what I made of it and have met a great number of excellent folks as a result. Also met some who have joined and then disappeared. On the down side a friend of mine chose to join and then make a fool of himself on here resulting in him getting banned. Painful for me but you should see some of the messages I received kindly reminding me that I am not my friend and my contributions will never cease to be valuable and welcomed.

    The Gamers vs Historians Debate is as old stalwart and has at times produced some interesting topics and subjects for discussion. I'm personally a bit of both and so if my opponent is a gamer then it's his lucky day. If my opponent is a historian then I'm the son of a historian ... But then there is also the fact that you can play Wings of Glory Solitaire / solo and it works for playing your chosen way or if you are new to the game helping you decide which of the two you would rather be. Though playing an opponent or in a group is a lot more fun Solitaire can also serve up the most valuable learning opportunities. Hope you are well by the way

  30. #230

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    As Barney says, this site can be all things to all people.
    The game is the thing, and you can stay with the original rules or change them to suit yourself. All you need to do is agree with the people who play with you at your club or house.
    For the historians who like to tinker, fine.
    For those who count buttons fine.
    For those who make up their own worlds and battle King Kong, or the evil Zombie Nazis, also fine, just as long as you enjoy the game and what you get out of the Drome.
    I always remember a piece of advice I was given years ago. " Don't drink with miserable Buggers." You could easily insert the word game for drink.
    The one thing I have found on the site, and when lucky enough to meet members in real life, is that not one of them has been a miserable bugger.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  31. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    [...]For those who make up their own worlds and battle King Kong, or the evil Zombie Nazis, also fine, [...]
    Wait? You can fight Zombie Nazis? Just kidding.

    Thanks,

  32. #232

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    It pains me to have to admit it, but yes Ken you can!
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  33. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    You have a reasonably broad coverage of the scouts Ken, so doubling up on your favourites is not a bad idea at all; I'd say another Camel & Fok D.VII for sure. You'll hopefully get a chance to add a RE8 two seater to the collection later this year (or early next!) with the reprint of Series 3 that I'd recommend, and get a Hannover for the Germans as that's a lively two seater to play.
    Do you think I should get an Airco DH.4? If so which one? Since I have the Straaken R.VI bigger guns are nice.

    Thank you for your help.

    Should I repost this as a separate thread?

  34. #234

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    I already voted earlier, but I have to say, I really like the boom card.
    Tonight, I just finished playing 2 games with my 11yo daughter.
    First match, I flew Albatross DVa vs. SPAD VII. An even match and then I boomed her late in the game. Both planes had about the same damage.
    Second match she flies her favorite Fok DVII vs. my SE5a. Another good match. She loves that turning knife fight and I was trying to keep my distance then make fast wide turns and then speed in. She caught me with the boom after some nice maneuvers by both sides.
    It fealt good to play and have her do well. The boom is certainly an equalizer, but she handles her planes well, too. We do not use the extra damage rules, though. We will work up to that in time. Right now the speed and simplicity is what keeps her interest. Having fun is top priority!

  35. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Von Below View Post
    I already voted earlier, but I have to say, I really like the boom card.
    Tonight, I just finished playing 2 games with my 11yo daughter.
    First match, I flew Albatross DVa vs. SPAD VII. An even match and then I boomed her late in the game. Both planes had about the same damage.
    Second match she flies her favorite Fok DVII vs. my SE5a. Another good match. She loves that turning knife fight and I was trying to keep my distance then make fast wide turns and then speed in. She caught me with the boom after some nice maneuvers by both sides.
    It fealt good to play and have her do well. The boom is certainly an equalizer, but she handles her planes well, too. We do not use the extra damage rules, though. We will work up to that in time. Right now the speed and simplicity is what keeps her interest. Having fun is top priority!
    Sounds like a fun time Greg. My kids are all grown so now and then I miss those days.

  36. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    In my brief experience here I too, unfortunately, have see this . I wanted to find a balanced bombing and observation game to play some scenarios with the planes I own. While I did get one answer that was close I also got 'read history books' and 'war isn't fair, neither should games'. Another posted a list of bombers and the weight capacity, and a few comments on why it is a poor choice to balance games, etc.

    The thing is, this is a game that uses a historical context. Some people like to play it because of history, some people gain a fondness for history because of it. Yet there are still others that just like to play fun games with neat miniatures (army men for grown ups). And a few that straddle several labels.

    I, for one, am glad it doesn't have to be played one way exclusively. I have played games for several years and enjoy a good balanced game between similarly skilled players; in those game historical accuracy may suffer. But others prefer to recreate historical battles. Regardless if we want to enjoin more new players we don't need to get stuffy because they may enjoy the game for reasons other than our own. The high ground we might take is but a mount of dust we simply kicked up in a fuss.

    So my novice answer to "Are we Gamers or Are we Historians?" is: The game should be fine for both types of players though they may not always want to play together. Regardless of that we should be appreciative and helpful to all who wish to enjoy the game for whatever reason.


    I realize I'm new so please forgive me if my response sounded more like a soap box lecture.
    Ken: balance is critical if the engagement is competitive and winning is important, achieved either by matching forces using a point system, or by adjusting the comparative objectives. In my gaming however I am finding more and more that the win is not as important as the game, and balance is not only unnecessary but at times a hindrance for a good story afterward! Rarely in life did two sides meet on equal terms. Would we remember Werner Voss if he had turned back at superior odds? Either way, play in a way that gives you the most Fun, and seek to play with those who have fun the way you do!

  37. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    In my brief experience here I too, unfortunately, have see this . I wanted to find a balanced bombing and observation game to play some scenarios with the planes I own. While I did get one answer that was close I also got 'read history books' and 'war isn't fair, neither should games'. Another posted a list of bombers and the weight capacity, and a few comments on why it is a poor choice to balance games, etc.

    The thing is, this is a game that uses a historical context. Some people like to play it because of history, some people gain a fondness for history because of it. Yet there are still others that just like to play fun games with neat miniatures (army men for grown ups). And a few that straddle several labels.

    I, for one, am glad it doesn't have to be played one way exclusively. I have played games for several years and enjoy a good balanced game between similarly skilled players; in those game historical accuracy may suffer. But others prefer to recreate historical battles. Regardless if we want to enjoin more new players we don't need to get stuffy because they may enjoy the game for reasons other than our own. The high ground we might take is but a mount of dust we simply kicked up in a fuss.

    So my novice answer to "Are we Gamers or Are we Historians?" is: The game should be fine for both types of players though they may not always want to play together. Regardless of that we should be appreciative and helpful to all who wish to enjoy the game for whatever reason.


    I realize I'm new so please forgive me if my response sounded more like a soap box lecture.
    Ken: balance is critical if the engagement is competitive and winning is important, achieved either by matching forces using a point system, or by adjusting the comparative objectives. In my gaming however I am finding more and more that the win is not as important as the game, and balance is not only unnecessary but at times a hindrance for a good story afterward! Rarely in life did two sides meet on equal terms. Would we remember Werner Voss if he had turned back at superior odds? Either way, play in a way that gives you the most Fun, and seek to play with those who have fun the way you do!

  38. #238

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    With few exceptions, usually always included. Including it encourages a fun, light-hearted game. If we are going more for a simulation, like can three Fw-190s, individually piloted, take down a B-17, then we'll ignore it (treating it like a zero).

  39. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Boom boom boom boom, I'm gonna shoot you right down!
    Extra points for the John Lee Hooker reference.

    https://youtu.be/X70VMrH3yBg
    Last edited by BB401; 03-27-2016 at 18:30.

  40. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    IIRC, you throw all the chits from the downed planes back into the chit bins/bags. So, any damage done is returned, if the plane goes down, including pilot wounds, fires, engine damage...

    Yup. Just checked the rules, and all the damage chits are returned to their "respective groups". So, the Boom Chit is always in play.

    This applies in WWI, too. When the plane is removed from play, all its damage cards are reshuffled into their respective decks. No reprieve from the Boom Card there, either.

    PS: This means I need to photograph the damage to the plane while soloing, not save the cards on the console until the end of the game like I have been doing. Darn! More record-keeping, or more fiddling around to display the Butcher's Bill at the end, if planes have the same special damage...
    That's a wrinkle I never really appreciated until now. If you shuffle them back in, then it is actually more likely to recur as there are fewer cards remaining in the overall deck. The earlier it shows up the more likely it is to recur, and the chance of recurrence increases each time it occurs. In a long game.......


  41. #241

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    When we play with multiple decks we leave downed planes' damage cards out of the decks. All cards keep more or less the same probability just due to size. But -- there's five kabooms in there so it ain't exactly comforting when one is revealed.

    I recommend all new players buy the two Duel Packs for WGF just to get the extra damage decks. Solves a lot of problems when playing with more than six players.

  42. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    When we play with multiple decks we leave downed planes' damage cards out of the decks. All cards keep more or less the same probability just due to size. But -- there's five kabooms in there so it ain't exactly comforting when one is revealed.

    I recommend all new players buy the two Duel Packs for WGF just to get the extra damage decks. Solves a lot of problems when playing with more than six players.
    Any rule of thumb as to how many decks per how many planes? (I need to find a source for more "B" Decks")

  43. #243

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    There's copies of Watch Your Back and Burning Drachens floating around for cheap that have decks in them. Keep an eye out on eBay and the like, or click Want in Trade on BGG.

    I run all Wings of War decks so it's easy to pick my cards out from others. Don't see them out there all that much anymore.

  44. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    There's copies of Watch Your Back and Burning Drachens floating around for cheap that have decks in them. Keep an eye out on eBay and the like, or click Want in Trade on BGG.

    I run all Wings of War decks so it's easy to pick my cards out from others. Don't see them out there all that much anymore.
    Do you know the contents of either?

  45. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    There's copies of Watch Your Back and Burning Drachens floating around for cheap that have decks in them. Keep an eye out on eBay and the like, or click Want in Trade on BGG.

    I run all Wings of War decks so it's easy to pick my cards out from others. Don't see them out there all that much anymore.
    Do you know the contents of either?

  46. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    Do you know the contents of either?
    Have you looked at this: New Complete Contents File?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Have you looked at this: New Complete Contents File?
    Wasn't aware. Thanks.

  48. #248

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    Yes I play with it, one game I was playing with two of my brothers, one of my sisters, and a friend, and I shot down one of my brothers and my sister in the first five rounds, because they both got an explosion.

  49. #249

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    Dont know if all the replies have been looked at here, but for some of the newer members, at most shows we attend in the UK we tend to seed the boom cards into the lower half of the damage deck or decks, this allows a bit of manouvering and shooting and stops a new player possibly being shot down within a couple of turns and thus lose interest.
    Just a suggestion chaps

  50. #250

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    I'll take the suggestion.

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