Over & underated planes

[kaufschtick]

Rob
It is not that they are all weak. Some of the new releases with a choice of three decals are great. I have two new TBF`s that are great. I also have five
He-111`s that are the old release and minimal decals. I picked them up at IPMS show last week for $3.00 each so being cheap was their main asset.
At this time i have 15-20 Minicraft kits on my to build shelf. Right now i a working on four Hurricanes kits two Sweet and two Arii. There is no comparison
between the detail and quality these kits. Who knows how old the Arii kits are and their age shows!
Rich

Oh no, I wasn't trying to be smart or anything, cause some of the mincraft kits are weak, IMHO!

I guess all I was trying to point out is that some of the minicraft kits are pretty damn good, suprisingly! I have been really suprised with how well some of them have turned out, especially the Ju-88s. I think they were made in Korea, super little kits!

But some of them are stinkers!

I'll agree that the old Arii (originally AHM?) kits don't stack up either. I've done two of the Sweet Hurricane Mk.Is myself.







I think I have 3 of the Arii (AHM?) Hurricane Mk.IIs...it always bums me out to read not too complimentary things about those kits. I always hope they'll be at least decent.

I remember that I read and heard from one of my buddies that the mincraft Me-110 were terrible, didn't even look like the real thing at all. I kept loosing out on bids for the Wing Club pre built Me-110s, and one day I saw some of the Chinese knock off kits, they called the company "minihobby". I went ahead and got a pair of Me-110s, they were only $5.00 USD each, with another $5.00 shipping each. Anyway, when they showed up, they looked OK, but when I started putting them together, I discovered that there were some serious issues with the kits.

I'm no great modeller either, just moderate to average, but I stuck with those kits, applied what meager skills I had to them, and low and behold...they came out OK. Again, I mean that I was really suprised in the end, I'm not being a smart aleck here. I was pleasantly suprised!



The only Arii kits I've done so far are the P-63 Kingcobras, which I wanted to mock them up as P-39s. At the time, there were no other P-39s available in 1/144 scale. OZMODS makes a damn good P-39 now though, although a little on the pricey side. I think my 4 were between $90.00 - $98.00 USD with shipping.

The P-63s had some issues too, but with a little work weren't too terribly bad.



I've got to get some new pics up, I took my three P-63s, changed the props to three blades, and trimmed the tails to look more like P-39s...maybe tonight I break out the old camera...hmm.

[richard m schwab]

Rob
Your Cobra`s look great they came out better than mine. The Minicraft P-38
is one of the stinkers. I have built two and passed up on two last weekend they were not worth $2.00.

Rich

[kaufschtick]

Rob
Your Cobra`s look great they came out better than mine. The Minicraft P-38
is one of the stinkers. I have built two and passed up on two last weekend they were not worth $2.00.

Rich

Agreed that that one was a stinker!

Yeah, the minicraft P-38s were the very first 1/144 scale kits I'd built.



They were a beast too! The canopy on one of them was all clouded, like if you had it fog up from super glue. I wasn't sure at the time if it was a poor kit, or my skills in that scale were in desperate need of sharpening. Looking back, probably a little of both.

I wouldn't mind taking another crack at them though now, I'm not too entirely thrilled with the two I have.

I'd take a crack at em' for two bucks though!

It's funny, but Corgi made a series of WWII all metal planes about 3-4 years ago, like seven different planes. One of them was a P-38, and one of my boys still has one of them. It's all beat up from having been played with, but it is exactly 1/144 scale. New out of the box, they were pretty sharp too! They'd work well with the others.

[check6]

I have traditionally sucked at paper modeling and generally not done well, however, i will have much free time over the spring break, and I used my freebies on that site on those buffalos, so i have the models, i might just give it a go. thank you for your input on all counts, i still (sadly) think i will not give in to the 1/144 bug, as i have repainted all my 1/200 planes and have a limited budget to replace them (broke as a college student) though the resin models you provided to a link to look so dang awesome!! Any ideas on ingame stats, i was thinking it might be a good fit for the wildcat deck.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Jared

I can see your point i have 200 some 1:144 planes and a few are Minicraft, even worse Arii, Crown, Minicraft, Revell. All the same molds just different names on the boxes on the boxes and which year they were released.
Maybe Air- 200 will come out with a Buffalo.

Rich,

You can get a 1:200 scale Brewster Buffalo F-2A at http://www.helmet-aircraft-200.com, but the display quality painted version is GBP 35, which would be around US$50 (image of US version below). Unlike some of the other models from Helmet you can't buy the Buffalo unpainted, but you can order it in a colour scheme to your specification at no extra cost (Finnish, British, Dutch, etc).



I might send Helmet an e-mail and see if they would consider selling a white metal version, which would only be about US$15.

Cheers,

Carl.

[richard m schwab]

Carl
That does look nice the raw casting would be nice. Did you see the link to Fiddlers Green they have a paper Buffalo supposed to be in 144?

Rich

[richard m schwab]

Rob
It took me along time to decide which part of the Canopy went to the front,
the fit is so bad. Just like the rest of the kit.
The great prices were due to them being in collections bought by shops who normally sell the bigger scales. They wanted to get rid them. I picked up an Me-110, and a Crown release B-26 that day the Minicraft B-26. I picked them both up for $5.00. The B-26 does have different decals than the Minicraft.
That is the big problem with the He-111 they all have the same decals! You can only mix and match so much!
Rich

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Carl
That does look nice the raw casting would be nice. Did you see the link to Fiddlers Green they have a paper Buffalo supposed to be in 144?

Rich

Rich,

I did see that, but I am committed to 1:200 now - 52 planes with 2 Gladiators, and 3 Blenheim IVs on order.

Cheers,

Carl.

[richard m schwab]

Carl
That is what your printer is for. I would try reduce it down to 1:200 scale.
Are those Air-200 planes?
I recently received some Reviresco Kits. This goes into the catagory of great minds thinking alike. The order included two Gladiators , two Cr-42`s two I-15`s and two I-16`s. The Military Aviation Museum has two I-16`s and an I-15 so i have a good source for painting them.
What ever the scale we do it is all good!

Rich

[krolik]

Jared

Check out this link you might be able to shrink these to 1:200!

https://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models...r-Buffalo.html

Rich

You could, but building it would be a pain. I built Fiddler's Green Fokker D VII in 1/144th and that was pretty small for a paper model.

[richard m schwab]

Rob
I finally found a link i was looking for. This is one of the dealers i bought some of my planes from. If you look at the second link you will see what is in the more expensive Anigrand kits. They normally have more than one kit in them. You can find some deals on that page.
Rich
http://www.nostalgicplastic.com/scale.cfm?scale=3&sr=1

http://ike.egoism.jp/SoraIke/html%20...d_Kit_List.htm

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Carl
That is what your printer is for. I would try reduce it down to 1:200 scale.
Are those Air-200 planes?
I recently received some Reviresco Kits. This goes into the catagory of great minds thinking alike. The order included two Gladiators , two Cr-42`s two I-15`s and two I-16`s. The Military Aviation Museum has two I-16`s and an I-15 so i have a good source for painting them.
What ever the scale we do it is all good!

Rich

The Gladiators are Air 200. I will be painting them up as 615 Sqn RAF asssigned to the BEF Air Component for inclusion in our France 1940 campaign.

I was considering buying some 1:144 Reviresco aircraft just for Spanish Civil War scenarios - Fiat CR32, Polikarpov I-15 and I-16, Heinkel He 51, Henschel Hs 123, Tupolev SB-2, and a few others - but that has hit the back burner. Once the Last Biplanes and Revolution in the Skies boosters hit the shelves I might resurrect the idea.

Cheers,

Carl.

[Pooh]

Rich,

I took a look at the Anigrand site. What a crazy way to market planes! They also have a wide variety of planes that never got past the prototype stage (if they got that far) including the one plane I would love to have in my collection; the P-65 Moonbat. They just look cool and the name totally fits it. To bad they're so expensive.

Pooh

[richard m schwab]

Pooh

I agree they have odd manner of packaging them. My friend collects the 1:72 range and i have seen most of those, they are nice. Nostalgic is the importer for them and usually comes to local IPMS events.

Rich

http://www.ipmsusa.org/

[leadpusher]

Does anyone have the WoW stats on the Buffalo?
thanks

[HardRock]

All of my attempts at paper models have ended up in the burning wreck catagorey. I'll stick to plastic.

Henry

[Skippy]

I will have to throw my hat in the ring

Most underrated..P-40..The Flying Tigers in China.

The RAAF kicked Rommel with these babies in North Africa.

In New Guinea..Tojo never made it to Darwin.

Most overrated..B-17..Mostly made famous by Hollywood..Bomber Command did most of the work with Lancasters, Wellingtons, Stirlings,and Hampdens.

[HardRock]

I will have to throw my hat in the ring

Most underrated..P-40..The Flying Tigers in China.

The RAAF kicked Rommel with these babies in North Africa.

In New Guinea..Tojo never made it to Darwin.

Most overrated..B-17..Mostly made famous by Hollywood..Bomber Command did most of the work with Lancasters, Wellingtons, Stirlings,and Hampdens.

The Flying Tigers used the strength of their P-40's against the Japanese, dive and climb, not fall into the trap of fighting where the enemy is stronger, turning. Always use your strong points, avoid your enemies.
The P-40 is underrated because of the aircraft that shortly followed it into the war, she could'nt keep up with the P-38, P-47 or P-51. Never said she wasn't any good, just outclassed in her own airforce.

Not to dispute the role of Bomber Command, the difference between Bomber Command and 8th Air Force was quite different. There was a bombing accuracy report done just post-war by the RAF, showing that Bomber Command hit their target more accuratly than 8th AirForce. The difference is in the terms, within 500 feet of the aiming point. Bomber Command's aiming point was a German city, 8th Air Force's aiming point was a single factory building. Really an apple and oranges comparision, but made to justify why what RAF did was better than USAAC.

To call the B-17 as over rated because of the difference between the application of bombing does'nt work. To state it is only famous because of Hollywood, shows a lack of understanding. Read the histories of the men who flew in her, you'll see why the B-17 is so highly thought of. Brought my uncle home several times, once it had to scrapped afterwards. Biased, just a little, but if you read about it, you'll understand.

Henry

[BD Ford]

Underrated -



Overrated -

Fairey Battle
Yes I know everyone thinks it was a terrible aeroplane, they just don't realise HOW terrible.

Eh? I seriously doubt that anyone EVER overrated the fairey battle? A plane designed and built, for a war that was never actually fought. Instead, they got WW2..

BD

[BD Ford]

I will have to throw my hat in the ring

Most underrated..P-40...

SERIOUSLY AGREEEEEE !

God bless the humble P-40. And it seems, he did! Rugged, reliable, built in huge numbers, it stood stoically in the face of the enemy when there was no one else... when the AVG tried to stem the tide of the Japanese in china, who was there? the P-40.
When there was bugger all else that got off the ground at pearl harbour, on that day of infamy, who tried in vain to resist? the P-40.
When the entire north coast of Australia was open to the Japanese, what stood as our only air defence? ONE squadron of american kids, and their P-40s.
From England, to the middle east, to africa and india and malay and singapore, from new guinea to australia, the phillipines and then across the wide blue pacific to hawaii, the noble P-40 served.

Warhawk, Tomahawk, Kittyhawk, call her what you will. The P-40 moniker says it all to me. Fighter.

Eventually outclassed and overshadowed by flashier aircraft like the mustang and spitfire, she was still THE workhorse of the war.
She epitomizes the last great generation that sacrificed itself to the greater good, so that something more noble might stand.
To all the men and women who served her, I salute you. Thank you most sincerely... for you bought us our freedom.


BD Ford
P-40 fan

[richard m schwab]

Bran!

For an old and reworked design the P-40 in all of it variants did great! They served in every Theater of the war and in about every allied Air Force at one time. Having seen a restored one from the the bare metal to flying it is an amazing design.


Rich

[Asbestos]

Most Overrated: A6M Zero. Really, once the Americans figured out to stop getting into turning fights with these it was over. Its significant that the P-40s and Wildcats that the US started the war with were more than capable of taking on the Zero once they figured things out. Japanese pilots had plenty more experience then US pilots at the start of the war, this was much more significant in terms of Japanese success then the greatness of the Zero.

I'd also say that the Spitfire, and in particular the Seafire (terrible carrier plane), are rather overrated.

Most Underrated: Even though it wasn't a particularly good plane the Fairey Fulmar racked up a very impressive number of kills for the Fleet Air Arm and did this during the dark and early years of the war. Shadowing Fulmars were also instrumental in the chase of the German battleship Bismarck.

[Mac]

Underrated. . .Hurricane, P-40, P-38, P-47, Spitfire. . . .all you hear is MUSTANG, MUSTANG, MUSTANG. Which of course makes it over rated.
Read of a pilot that flew the Spitfire and Mustang in combat, his pick:
Spitfire.
Over rated Bomber?
B-17 no doubt. The B 24 carried more and further than the B-17. From the time she was dubbed Flying Fortress, her history was written.

[bsmith13]

Underrated. . .Hurricane, P-40, P-38, P-47, Spitfire. . . .all you hear is MUSTANG, MUSTANG, MUSTANG. Which of course makes it over rated.
Read of a pilot that flew the Spitfire and Mustang in combat, his pick:
Spitfire.
Over rated Bomber?
B-17 no doubt. The B 24 carried more and further than the B-17. From the time she was dubbed Flying Fortress, her history was written.

What you say has merit. And yet, there must have been some qualities of the planes you mention as overrated, else the pilots who flew them would not be so devoted to them.

Comparing the Spitfire and the Mustang, I believe that from a pilot's point of view, the Mustang had three things going for it that the Spitfire lacked (at least to the same degree): Range, better grouping for the guns, and it was relatively easy to learn how to fly well.

I can think of two things that made the Fort more famous than its sister. It was far easier to fly (the low-drag Davis wing of the Liberator had it's advantages, but ease of flight was not one of them). The other is its ability to take damage.

Just my $.02

[Delnore]

I can think of two things that made the Fort more famous than its sister. It was far easier to fly (the low-drag Davis wing of the Liberator had it's advantages, but ease of flight was not one of them). The other is its ability to take damage.

The bomb groups using the B-17 were based closer to London, which makes sense given the aircraft's shorter range. The American press was also based in London and didn't want to travel halfway across England to do bomber stories, which were typically the amazing return of damaged aircraft. So the newspapers and newsreels told the American public that the bomber war consisted of tough B-17s bringing their crews back alive. We know that more B-24s carried more bombs further, but that wasn't covered.

Boeing saw what was going on and capitalized on the free publicity, in effect creating its postwar brand identity: big, tough planes that get you there and back safely. Hence Boeing's domination of the airliner market.

[Foobs]

OMG someone 'bagged' the stringbag! A pox on you!

OK for me the most under rated plane of the war has to be the P40. The amount of work this aircraft did in North Africa, Italy and the Pacific whilst always being ignored or dismissed by the headlines is ridiculous. IMO this plane certainly deserves a much greater place in the history books, and also much greater place in the hearts and knowledge of Australians. People in Oz still know about the Spitfire but most of the great work done by Aussie fighter pilots wasn't in this plane.

P40 ftw!

Most over rated... the Spitfire (collective gasp heard from readers in the UK all the way over to Australia) sure it was a nice plane but please... I feel it's legend far outweighs what it actually did. The Hurricane bore the brunt of defending Britain in BoB yet once again the workhorse misses out on the glory created by the propaganda machine.

[Foobs]

Sorry, hard game to play, really depends on what time period of the war. Like Brad says, depends on which version.

I would say P-39 Aircaobra covers both! In the U.S. a failure, but success in Russia.

I love the P39 too. Too much playing it in IL2 airsim online I guess when I am on the Eastern front...

[Foobs]

Underated:P47 Overated:P51

I know this is my third post but I am too opinionated to stop at one...

The P47/P51 battle is the US version of the Hurricane/Spitfire battle of the poms.
Give me a Jug over the Mustang anyday if only for it's brutish beauty over the pony's lines.

and yet still... P40 ftw in this thread

[Charlie3]

Underated:P47 Overated:P51

I know this is my third post but I am too opinionated to stop at one...

The P47/P51 battle is the US version of the Hurricane/Spitfire battle of the poms.
Give me a Jug over the Mustang anyday if only for it's brutish beauty over the pony's lines.

and yet still... P40 ftw in this thread

OK you got to me I have been avoiding this debate... I have to agree on the 'Jug" vote. 8 count em 8! .50cal MG's, 8 rockets or 2- 110lb bombs all in one package! Besides there is my favorite story from I believe Glenn Eaglston's book about a P-47 returning to base with an outhouse door folded over the wing that got impailed by the guns when it got a little too close to the ground on a LOW level pass no damage to the wing or airframe! Sturdy, Deadly and Funny all at the same time.

[Skippy]

Yes, when I said the B-17 was over-rated I forgot to mention the role played by other US aircraft. The Liberator was another under-rated machine, also the Mitchell, both served in the Pacific, the RAAF used both to great effect.

Have a soft spot for the Mitchell..as I buried the crew of one in the Lae War Cemetery back in the 1980's.


Now on to fighter aircraft. Have to agree about the Spitfire being over-rated.

The Hawker Hurricane was always over shadowed by her famous sister.

Keep the fan mail coming...