Overall better aircraft in-game: SE5a or SPAD XIII

[Flying_Corpse]

Hi All

I'm starting to play Wings of Glory again after a roughly 2.5-year break and, as someone who focussed on playing the Sopwith Camel ("turn and burn" tactics) in the past, am thinking of evolving onto Allied aircraft that specialise more in "boom and zoom", specifically the SE5a or SPAD XIII.

Of those who have played both, which would you recommend overall? My criteria would be: average victory / survival rate per engagement and; versatility and general ease of play (or fun factor).

Based on my limited play of both types to date, I would say the SPAD XIII specialises in pure boom and zoom but SE5a does this plus adds some useful turn manoeuvres (plus upward firing Lewis). Does the SE5a have any limitations as a boom and zoom fighter versus the SPAD XIII, e.g. does its turn capability encourage you to enter turn fights (which you ultimately lose) when you should really continue to boom and zoom?

Your feedback will help me consider how much I want to invest in one type versus the other, including potentially purchasing a SPAD VII to add to my collection (I already have the SPAD XIII).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[Paukenschlager]

I think that a black and white answer is kinda tricky. It much depends on what scenarios you are playing.

They are both very fast planes, so they can intercept recon/bombers effectively.
The S.E.5a is way more agile, which is a useful feature for all kind of tasks: getting on the tail of another scout while dogfighting, to buzz around a huge bomber shooting as you go or to get in the blind sector between the two MGs of a two seater.

With equal climb rate, the SPAD XIII has an higher ceiling but that's at altitude 15 and I don't know how much you would take advantage of this in your games (or any games, really).

In RE of "average victory / survival rate per engagement", my consideration is: Hit points are the same (an outstanding 16, iirc the best in the game for fighters) and they both fire with A deck so they start on an even footing - but again, this depends if you use damage rules as written (with the luck factor that comes in play) or a modified system like in tournaments.

Personally I feel that the S.E.5a is a more versatile plane and a better investment overall for both casual and "official" (cons, tournaments, etc) games.

[flash]

.. Of those who have played both, which would you recommend overall? My criteria would be: average victory / survival rate per engagement and; versatility and general ease of play (or fun factor)... Does the SE5a have any limitations as a boom and zoom fighter versus the SPAD XIII...

Hi Rhys, average victory / survival rate is hard to quantify due to the randomness of the damage cards drawn, but being much more agile the SE5a is the more versatile model. In terms of boom and zoom fighting they'll be much the same but the better agility will give the SE better approach options. The only limitation I find is if you pick up a pilot wound it limits use of it's agility as all those manoeuvres are steep and you can't fire on a steep manoeuvre once wounded.

[camelbeagle]

It comes down to how you use altitude for me. the SPAD XIII is best for zoom and boom. It is a quick climber and very fast. I like using the SPAD XIII when we have two or three mats put together. If you use the optional flying higher rules the SPAD XIII had an advantage over a lot of the planes.

If we use no altitude, or only one mat, I like the Se5a. Turns a bit better in the game. Can keep it on the board if only one mat.

[Paukenschlager]

If you use the optional flying higher rules the SPAD XIII had an advantage over a lot of the planes.

Out of curiosity Dan, as I play with flying higher most of the times but I didn't manage to follow your reasoning.
Being the climb rate the same between the 2 planes and iirc an altitude difference of 2+ automatically putting the enemy out of gun range, how does the great ceiling of the S.XIII turn the tables so much when it comes to zoom&boom?

One can use it to seek shelter where the enemy can't reach him, but I don't see much advantage in having a ceiling of 15 against the S.E.5a's 12 (unless you are up against machines with a ceiling of 17, which are pretty rare in any case).

Thanks in advance for any clarification - I might be overthinking this or just being a sore loser because of my Baracca S.XIII having recently been blown to smithereens by an Albatros D.III

[Spad VII]

Personally I only have Spad VII and Spad XIII and they suit me perfectly, especially with the altitude rules and the Boom and Zoom * Spad VII is a slightly different plane to Spad XIII, a little less solid but more manoeuvrable and with the Booster < Hit and Run > Wings of War card of the pilot Georges Lachmann B/A or the Englishman De Havilland it is irresistible!



I played with a SE5 A Ok it turns better than the XIII, it's a good plane, but I stick with my Spads, especially the VII, which is aesthetically beautiful and one of the best miniatures in the game. It all depends on the mission, as has been said, and the two can be complementary, but then again I'm used to Spads and I much prefer them.
Enjoy your game !

[camelbeagle]

Valerio,

I love to dive down on my targets. According to the rules you get a +1 damaged on each damage card when you do that. Then I zoom off, Immelmann around, and climb back up to a higher altitude. Then I close in and dive back down at them. Do not try and play the turn game. Keep a higher altitude and take advantage of the +1 against your targets. Not much can catch up with a SPAD XIII.

If you want to take advantage of tight turns, then a Sopwith Camel is one of the best with the three sharp rotary right turns in its deck.

If you want a faster plane with a better turn ability then the SE5a would work better for you. It depends on what strategy you want to use.

[Paukenschlager]

Dan,

Thanks for your insights. I found that with limited space available agility over height tricks suit me best.
Also, with practice and a little knowledge acquired over time, I realised I can predict where the opponent is likely to be and use the Aim rule +1 bonus to equal effect than a well placed zoom&boom.
Different styles of play, part of the beauty of the game!

[Flying Helmut]

It's all been said, really.

I find the SE5a adds an extra dimension with its sharp turns and wide sideslips, and also adds the extra frustration dimension when the pilot gets wounded, as Flash said; even so, the remaining firing-capable cards are exactly the same as the SPAD XIIIs full 'A' deck (sans stalls-card shooting, of course) so you haven't lost everything. The steep cards are still there to use as evasive manoeuvres, if you're not trying to shoot on those cards.

Both plane types also have another bonus, which has come to light in my playtesting of my campaign rules: the extra speed of the 'A' and 'N' decks allows the player to dictate combat/no combat - if you're outmatched you can disengage without risk of enemy interference, or if you outnumber your enemy you can choose to chase him down and force an engagement!

[Flying_Corpse]

Thanks for the very thoughtful responses everyone, with opinions for both the SE5a and SPAD. To be honest, they broadly reflect how I feel about the pros and cons of each aircraft and still make it too close to call: the SE5a wins on overall versatility but the SPAD excels at pure boom and zoom (so is perhaps better as a trainer to learn the play style in a Wings of Glory context). Bonus points to @Spad VII for the passionate sell of the… SPAD VII. I’m increasingly tempted to acquire Soubiran’s 103rd Aero Squadron SPAD VII as a result.

Based on the closeness of the opinions I’ve come away for the Easter long weekend with an SE5a and SPAD XIII to focus on applying a boom and zoom play style and some comparative testing!

[milcoll73]

my suggestion is to get both, and any other mini you can get your paws on!