Proposal on two advanced rules for Limited Ammo rules users

[Diamondback]

I was perusing a WWII aircraft tech forum the other day, and the consensus they mentioned about aircraft being given thirty seconds' firing worth of ammo per gun led me to do some WAGging on how to use this in tandem with Limited Ammo rules. I'm going to pitch these to Andrea, but thought I'd ask the community to help me fine tune tham and work out the bugs first.

That thirty seconds time per gun was usually fired in bursts of about 2-3 seconds or less, which suggests 10-15 ammo counters should be the default amount, and these ideas for aircraft with B or A+A decks.

SHORT BURSTS: Give this pilot twice the normal number of Ammo tokens. Each firing action you may choose between drawing a single A chit for 1 ammo token spent, or two if firing at normal A+A or B damage for two tokens. (Nutshell: half the damage potential per draw but twice the chances to draw, mitigated by damage-boosting technical abilities like Sniper.)

WHOLE NINE YARDS: (This represents holding the trigger down for a long burst all-guns-blazing) You may draw and apply twice your normal number of Damage chits. If you do, expend twice the normal number of Ammo tokens.

In game terms, SB is more benefit to an ace who's stacked his skills with things like Technical Eye or Sniper, WNY is more a case of "either the Hail Mary saves you or you're going out in a blaze of glory."

[Jager]

This sounds good to me.
And if anyone wants to equate ammo tokes to the shots allowed in Fighting Wings, I can take some time, and put together a list.
The scaling should be close; plus you can have ammo levels for your MGs and your cannons seperately.
Karl

[Diamondback]

Couldn't most fighters toggle guns on or off individually? If I'm recalling right each card represents a pair of guns, so...

For each 2 guns (numbers are SB/normal/WNY)...
.30/7ish-mm ("rifle-caliber MG") - ?/A/2A
.50/12ish-mm ("heavy MG") - A/B/2B
Was it 20-23mm cannon C, 37-40mm D? And then how do we handle a bird like the Fw190A-5 that had two 7.92 (MG17 = A), plus four 20mm (MG FF and MG151/20 = each pair C?), and where do the 15mm MG151/15 and 30mm MK108 fit in?

We'll assume these abilities are ONLY available at Short Range, "Whole Nine Yards" still wouldn't want to waste ammo at Long range.

Not sure how we'd scale cannon or RCMG draws down for SB, but WNY would still be straightforward with "more chits drawn more tokens burned."

EDIT: To make it more "expert," maybe give each pair of guns its own token pool? Personally, unless it's a "When In Doubt Empty The Mags" scenario, if I was flying I'd want to set my bird up with two guns held in reserve for fighting my way home with if needed and the rest for offensive punch (for example, flying a Mustang or Corsair assuming one chit per pair with Short Bursts, each of my ten three-second bursts would throw two A chits, while Whole Nine Yards fighting my way out would mean my two "reserve" guns throwing two B's on each of five bursts.)

Possibility for Short Burst A: Draw 2 chits and use the weaker of the two?

[Jager]

As far as choosing pairs of guns, I don't think so. It would probably need to have their manuals looked at.
I do know that, at least for the German and Japanese fighters, cannons and MGs could be fired separately.
More research needed.
Karl

[Diamondback]

If memory serves, the P-38 and P-39 were both also capable of independent cannon-vs-MG fire.

More research needed, indeed.

[hokusai]

According to Macchi 202 manual, the 2 cowling guns and the 2 optional wing guns could be fired independently

[Jager]

According to Macchi 202 manual, the 2 cowling guns and the 2 optional wing guns could be fired independently

Being an optional mount, that makes sense.
Karl

[Diamondback]

I'd assume German Rustsatze underwing gondolas would work similarly, especially high-caliber limited ammo "make 'em count" applications like the guns on Ju87G tankbusters.

[Diamondback]

Addition: Per Barrett Tillman, F4F Wildcats had individual gun selection, and many pilots at Santa Cruz toggled two and sometimes even four guns off to conserve ammo through the fast-and-furious furball at Santa Cruz. (Wildcat Aces of WWII, pg. 23)

[OldGuy59]

Cannon equipped Spitfires and Me.109s had the option of firing MGs, Cannons, or both. Then, it was up to the pilot how long they held the trigger.

So, the above idea is workable.

[Diamondback]

Per the P-39Q flight manual, all Airacobras had individual gun toggles--it specifically notes "toggle all guns OFF before landing." This suggests to me that it was probably a more common feature than most realize.