Collision between a balloon and a plane

[Le Piaf]

Using the advanced vanilla rules (with altitude), when do a ballon and a plane collide ?

Unless I am mistaken, the only thing written in the Rulebook about balloon collisions is about their effect : "The effect of a collision between a balloon and an airplane is the same as between two airplanes" (p. 30).

The rule about collisions between two airplanes is :

They "collide if they are both at the same altitude and they either both have climb counters or they both have no climb counters" (p. 16).

My question is :
- do collisions between balloons and planes follow this same rule above ?
- or is the rule :

A balloon and a plane "collide if they are both at the same altitude, regardless of their number of climb counters because balloons are big, thus they 'fill' all the altitude level", so that, for example, at the altitude of 2, an airplane with no climb counter will collide with a balloon having 1 climb counter.

(edit)
It seems that, for the rules of WoW "Balloon Busters", the first alternative was chosen (same rule of collision as between 2 planes).

[monse]

The official rule follows the ones you have notified :

"The effect of a collision between a balloon and an airplane is the same as between two airplanes" (p. 30).

"Two airplane collide if they are both at the same altitude and they either both have climb counters or they both have no climb counters" (p. 16).

An altitude level includes several sub-levels, that might be less big than a balloon.

No use making collision occur more frequently. They can be deadly.

[Le Piaf]

Thanks for the clarification, Simon !

[Le Piaf]

Another question about balloons. The advanced rules say about Exploding balloons that "one C damage card is taken by each airplane within a half-ruler of distance on the balloon's altitude level and (...)" (Rulebook, p. 30).

Is "half-ruler of distance" :

- from the center of the base of the balloon :



- or from any part of the base of the balloon :

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Some people measure peg to peg, others base to base. The problem is the same as in many wargames the scale on the ground is not related to the size of the model, nor the perceived altitude because the pegs are not scaled the same as the ground distance. Just like the 300 foot trees you see on the wargames table or a complete regiment concealed behind a cottage.

Rob.

[Le Piaf]

Indeed, Rob.

I guess as long as the Random Number Generator provides 'realistic', probable, expected results, it helps to believe in this make-believe :-)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

That in a nutshell just about sums up our wargaming world Luc.
Rob.

[monse]

The advanced rules say about Exploding balloons that "one C damage card is taken by each airplane within a half-ruler of distance on the balloon's altitude level and (...)" (Rulebook, p. 30).

Is "half-ruler of distance" :
- from the center of the base of the balloon ?
- or from any part of the base of the balloon ?

from a former conversation a few years ago :

“a rule question concerning a balloon that explodes at less than half a ruler from a plane at the same altitude :
Half ruler is from center to center or from base to base ?”

The answer of Andrea ANGIOLINO :

“the rule does not specify it.
But when I speak of distances I always mean from edge to edge, so from base to base.”

[Flying Helmut]

Thanks for that, Monse!

[Le Piaf]

Thank you very much, Simon. Always helpful !

[Teaticket]

One thing I do in games I run is not have the 'target', in this case balloon, take damage from a collision. Too many times when a players plane was down to its last hit point or two the player would collide on purpose with the balloon to achieve the scenario objective of downing the balloon. So I have come to the position of having the targets like balloons, Zeppelins, etc. not take collision damage but the plane will. Yes, I am an evil GM.

[predhead]

Peg to base for measurement is a good consistent rule of thumb, since it coincides with the rules for firing. As ground scale...or is it air scale...is not reflected well, anything more would be uncivilized.

[milcoll73]

One thing I do in games I run is not have the 'target', in this case balloon, take damage from a collision. Too many times when a players plane was down to its last hit point or two the player would collide on purpose with the balloon to achieve the scenario objective of downing the balloon. So I have come to the position of having the targets like balloons, Zeppelins, etc. not take collision damage but the plane will. Yes, I am an evil GM.

duly noted and immediately adopted for any of my zeppelin scenarios. so i came to the dark side, wheres my cookies?

[Le Piaf]

1) Balloons, fire and ground level

The standard rules say that :

"when a balloon catches fire", it "takes an A damage card at the start of each turn as with airplanes (...) until the balloon is destroyed or reaches the ground".

The advanced rules say that :

"when a balloon reaches level 1 with no (climb) counters, it is out of the game, but is not considered eliminated for victory conditions."

Let's imagine a balloon on fire :

Turn 10 :
At the end of the turn, the balloon is at altitude level 1 with one climb counter.

Turn 11 :
- At the start of the turn, during planification, the balloon takes a A damage card. Let's imagine it survives it. So the player decides to make the balloon descend during this turn.

- At the end of the turn, the climb counter is discarded and the balloon is at altitude 1 with no climb counter.

From that moment, does it mean that the balloon is totally safe and that :
- this balloon can't be fired at anymore ?
- its fire is considered as immediately extinguished at the end of turn 11 ?
- no A damage card for fire is taken anymore (as it is taken at the start of each turn, so that the next card would have been taken at turn 12) ?

2) Victory points in a scenario involving balloons

A balloon forced to be pulled to the ground, balloon observers hit thus eliminated or forced to bail out of their basket and, of course, a destroyed balloon can be considered as victories for the attacker(s).

Do you give victory points in your scenario in all these cases or only when the ballloon is destroyed ?

[predhead]

One thing I do in games I run is not have the 'target', in this case balloon, take damage from a collision. Too many times when a players plane was down to its last hit point or two the player would collide on purpose with the balloon to achieve the scenario objective of downing the balloon. So I have come to the position of having the targets like balloons, Zeppelins, etc. not take collision damage but the plane will. Yes, I am an evil GM.

Some games I have hosted the house rule is once you have hit half or more damage you must retreat off the board towards one's home edge. Takes away from players doing things just as that.