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Thread: Willy Coppens

  1. #1

    Default Willy Coppens

    Hello All,

    I was doing a bit of research on the Belgian "Balloon-Buster" Willy Coppens last night, when I came across some interesting info, and was pondering what the WoW implications would be.

    Apparently, Coppens was dissatisfied with the original, single .303 caliber Vickers mounted on his Hanriot HD.1 aircraft, but refused to upgrade to another A/C or to try and fit a secong gun to his beloved Hanriot. Despite the single MG on his favorite aircraft, he quickly became Belgium's leading ace and the greatest and most famous "Balloon-Buster" of all time. The secrets to his success were the following:

    1. Due to the fact that tracer ammo was available, it was in such short supply and apparently of such low quality (many bullets simply flew to pieces shortly after leaving the gun) that Coppens was forced to develop his own TTP (Tactics, Techniques and Proceedures):
    a. He would fly as close to his intended target as possible- this made missing nearly impossible and, counter-intuitively, proved to be "safer" as he flew so close to the balloon that enemy gunners were prevented from firing at him due to fear of hitting their own balloon. The problem is getting this close without being shot to pieces!
    b. He typically limited his burst to only four (4) rounds(!) to limit jams and maximize his precious supply of tracer ammunition.

    2. His trusty HD.1 was armed, not with the standard .303 caliber machinegun, but with an 11mm Vickers MG! This was news to me, I had never even heard of such a weapon in this caliber. Apparently, the weapon was developed specifically for the purpose of destroying balloons, and was refered to in some sources as an "anti-balloon machine gun". The 11mm round was originally of French design, while the weapon itself was built by Colt in the USA to design specs provided by Vickers of Great Brittain (which is of course copied from the Russian Maxim). The records are rather muddled as to how many were manufactured and who they were issued to. In fact, it is hard to find many details about the weapon at all, and it would most likely have been forgotten completely were it not for the fact that many of the Vickers MGs fitted to surviving (or repro) WWI aircraft on display in museums to day (primarilly in the US) are, in fact, of 11mm caliber because of the availability of cheap parts.

    This helps to explain (to me, anyways...) why Coppens (flying in late 1917-18) would chose to continue using such a, seemingly, out of date aircraft such as the Hanriot HD.1 armed with a single MG, when more "modern" aircraft (such as the Sopwith Camel) armed with twin guns were available this late in the war. Though I have only found this weapon mentioned in context with Coppen's personal aircraft, surely others must have mounted it, at least experimentally, for a period.

    So, ... What does this mean to me (or you) and how would we best represent this in our favorite game: Wings of War? Here are my thoughts on the subject...

    A. We could treat his single MG as normal, and use the "B" damage deck. This works on the principle of " a single MG is a single MG is a single MG, regardles of whether it is .303 caliber or 7.7mm or 7.92mm. This does however not really, adequately represent the 11mm Heavy machinegun he used so effectively.
    B. We could treat it as using the "A" damage deck due to its heavier fire power. The "A" deck is normally used to represent twin MGs (of the typical calibers). This, to me does not really represent the "unique-ness" of Coppen's 11mm-armed Hanriot; too much firepower.
    C. We could continue to use the "B" deck (as written) but give him an extra damage card at close-range (1 "B" at long-range annd 3 "B" at short-range), to simulate the increased damage potential of the heavier round at close-range, while limiting its effects at long-range where his short bursts would result in very few hits, and thus... less damage.
    D. We could give ALL his shots a +1 damage shift (as with subsequent shots). Thus, a "1" damage card would inflict 2-points of damage, a "3" would do 4-points, etc... A "0" would remain a ZERO. This would simulate the greater damage inflicted by the heavier round and uses a (modified) rule already in the Rule Book.

    Of the above, I think I like "C" and "D" best, as they seem to best simulate the weapon coupled with Coppen's tactics, while creating/modifying the basic rules (as written) the least, i.e. the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

    What are your thoughts?


    Chris

  2. #2

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    Interesting stuff Chris - I only found that out recently too. There were .50 cal Vickers used in early WWII tanks & by the LRDG/SAS but 11mm (.43cal) is an odd size - maybe something the Belgians liked ??
    As for the game I'd go with the C option but maybe use an A & B deck card instead of 3 Bs at close range as that's simplest.

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #3

    Thumbs up

    Maybe you should try it out Chris using all the various suggestions and report back to us, as to which you felt was the best option.

    Lucky.

  4. #4

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    I would give him +1 at short range. Kiss applies to most of my rules. It must be because as a teacher this method helps to reduce the idiot factor.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #5

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    Interesting that someone is reading up on my favourite Belgian pilot

    As far as Game-mechanics go I'll leave it up to you distinguished gentlemen ( I feel I didn't play the game enough yet to mix in such a discussion) but I have Willy coppen mémoires at hand and I'll try to find some more info on the gun and where it came from...

    Just from memory I think he had a relative ( uncle?) that was a high -ranking officer and who provided him with his ( expensive) tracer ammo...

    I see what I can find and let you know.
    Last edited by Bluedevil; 12-22-2010 at 07:29. Reason: typo's

  6. #6

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    Frank Luke's SPAD also had 1 x 303 and 1 11mm. The 11mm fired incindiaries, which he did not fire on planes.

    One solution: B damage vs planes, A+1 vs balloons.
    Another: review the ballon damage decks to see of any of those apply to the 11mm (I do not have that set of rules, but saw them recently). Anything useful there?

    RJR

  7. #7

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    A snippet about the 11mm Vickers from the "other Aerodrome":
    One or two Belgian Hanriots were the subject of an interesting and highly successful armament experiment. By 1917, the Hanriot's single .303-cal Vickers machine gun was seriously inadequate. Like the Italians before them, the Belgians experimented with twin Vickers guns, but found that performance suffered too severely with the extra weight. The single weapon was a particular liability during the balloon-busting sorties that were Coppens' specialty. With high-speed winches reeling in the target and zeroed-in antiaircraft guns firing at the attacker's aircraft, there was little time for the deliberate shooting that light-weight armament demanded. Accordingly, the French sent Coppens an early prototype of a new, purpose-built weapon, the "balloon gun." This was a license-built Vickers chambered for an experimental, high-velocity 11-mm (.45 cal.) cartridge (inspired, no doubt, by the standard, early-war anti-balloon weapon, a .45-cal, low-velocity incendiary bullet fired from a Victorian-era Martini-Henry carbine). Coppens had the gun fitted to one of his several Hanriots (No. 17) and used it alongside the standard machines. Coppens considered the experiment a great success. The 11-mm gun was far more effective than two of the standard 7.7-mm (.303 cal.) weapons but weighed less. At least one other Belgian Hanriot may have carried the gun, but the weapons never reached production due to the end of the war. Interestingly, the 11-mm balloon gun inspired one of the most successful automatic weapons of all times, the .50-cal (12.7-mm) Browning.

    ROF's not a factor, so I'd go with Option "D" myself (plus the special rules for incendiary bullets of course).
    Last edited by IRM; 12-17-2010 at 15:22.

  8. #8

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    After a very short session of diagonal reading I stumbled upon a couple of lines in which Willy Coppens declares that he procured 20 incendiary bullets from the French Headquarters by intermediary of lieutenant Bataille ( so not a relative like I first mentioned)
    He also declares that other pilots were given the same amount of bullets : Robin and Dubroux have also 20 rounds to experiment with.
    Sadly he doesn't mention what caliber they are...

    As soon as I have some more time I'll try to figure out where the 11mm gun came from ( as far as I remember it was a french gift )
    Last edited by Bluedevil; 12-23-2010 at 07:47. Reason: just another typo :(

  9. #9

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    Sorry to bump this thread but I finally found out how Willy Coppens got his 11mm Vickers gun that helped him to get thos "Drachens" down

    In his mémoires, "Days on the wing" or also known as "Flying in Flanders" he states:

    "Cpt. de Briey,of the French Aeronautical Supply Department,sent me, addressed personally to me, amodified Vickers machine-gun of 11mm calibre, firing incendiary bullets of a particular effective pattern. This weapon, which was the second made to this specification , was marvellous, and twice as useful as that of 7mm calibre." (p178)

  10. #10

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    Well done Alex - a good bit of detective work - perhaps we should call you Poirot ?

    "He is wise who watches"

  11. #11

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    It is interesting to note that prior to the French providing him with the 11mm Vickers, he had been limited to just 20 incendiary rounds per month. He loaded 4 per mission and never fired at a balloon until he was so close that he could not miss.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  12. #12

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    * Curls up moustache*
    Oui, Hercule, on m'apelle Hercule...



    Willy Coppens was also a man with a vision and he wasn't afraid to show this in his mémoires. He must have kicked against some sore legs here and there because the first print of his book "Jours Envoleés" was censored back in the 1930's...

  13. #13

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    Wow... .43 (basically.45) Caliber machine gun on an aircraft that early... you would have to wonder if that shook his Hanriot a bit when he fired it...
    Ken Head - "The Cowman"
    “You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.” Robin Williams

  14. #14

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    This may have already been addressed, but did anyone mention a good book about our hero? One in print currently or obtainable in English would be nice.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Interesting stuff Chris - I only found that out recently too. There were .50 cal Vickers used in early WWII tanks & by the LRDG/SAS but 11mm (.43cal) is an odd size - maybe something the Belgians liked ??
    As for the game I'd go with the C option but maybe use an A & B deck card instead of 3 Bs at close range as that's simplest.
    I like this Idea!
    Use the B Deck for Long Range & the A Deck for under Half Range.



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