attitude about altitude

[rockyr]

I have never played with the altitude rules but hope to soon. Having read them, though, I realize I need to study them for tactical implications. The forum seems a little thin on discussion this point (little to be said?)

At first, there seems to be little impact. The most significant item I see is the shortening of range by altitude difference. This should favor the rotories.

Given the short climb maneuvre distances, I assume that a patient player might try to keep distance while gaining height, but some of the planes ranked 1 for speed (see that wonderful comparison pdf in the files section) should be able to close before much climbing (only one climb card per turn and 2-3 climb markers needed on average) is achieved. Once in combat, it seems so much harder.

On the other hand, a climb can be a handy way to shorten movement and keep place instead of stalling.

By the way, in which boxed set do the climb markers appear? Altitude markers (easier than changing pegs) are in Balloon Busting, right?

Back to tactics - some planes might be able to dive away from others, but it seems a short term escape.

The Immelmann is only a climb marker, so that does not necessarily change altitude, right? The Split S on the other hand, is a change downward. That appears handy, other than wanting latter to climb back up. Still, its only one marker rather than a whole level, so it might not be that bad. Add the stall for starting the Split S, and that looks like another good way to stay close.

I would appreciate any other insights from more experienced pilots.

Borrowing a line form the Bosche: "Fools learn from their own mistakes. Wise men learn from the mistakes of others." Besides, a rookie pilot should attend to the words of the veterans... (all the better to stay alive in the air my dear...").

Looking forward to tactical wisdom...


RJR

[usmc1855]

Each time you do a maneuver that gives you a climb marker, does have implications. Particularly with regards to Collisions, which in turn influences your choice of maneuvers. Appearing to be subtle at first, but after playing with altitude a while it does become obvious how it changes the some dynamics of the game.

[rockyr]

Collisions? I do not see such rules in the WoW Miniature rules downloadable PDF, nor in the boxed sets older rules for cards. Plenty on overlapping stands...

An aside: not being able to fire with overlapping stands has lead to weird situations locally where planes fly right at each other and cannot fire. We will use arcs of fire even when overlapping.

RJR

[IRM]

Collisions rules (and climb/altitude markers) are in the Burning Drachens set. Don't know if they're also in BB.

The Altitude rules themselves don't have that much impact in straight dogfights (unless you've got Camels vs Eindeckers or something ;P), but two-seaters/bombers and any missions involving ground interaction are greatly affected.

[Charlie3]

Here are the collision rules as printed in Burning Drachens

COLLISIONS
Two overlapping planes and/or balloons collide if 1) they are both
at the same altitude and 2) either they both have climb counters
(no matter how many) or they both have no climb counters.
Each colliding plane or balloon takes a C damage card for each
airplane or balloon, enemy or friend, that it collides with. Take
into account damage points and explosions and ignore other
types of special damage.
Example: A Nieuport 17 at an altitude of 2 and with 2
climb counters overlaps with both a 2-altitude Austrian
balloon with 1 climb counter and a 2-altitude Pfalz D.III
with 3 climb counters. The balloon and the Pfalz don’t
overlap each other, but the balloon also overlaps with a 2-
altitude Sopwith Camel with no climb counters.
The balloon and the Sopwith don’t collide, since one has
climb counters and the other does not. The Pfalz and the
balloon both collide with the Nieuport, so they take a single
C card each while the Nieuport takes two C cards.

Our group added the provisal that the center post or targeting dot of one plane must overlap the silhouette of the other to decrease the chances of a collision on every overlap. (we don't use the altitude rules)

The not being able to shoot when stands/cards are overlapped rule is designed to simulate the idea that the planes have gotten too close and the pilots have "Jinked" away from each other to avoid a collision, thereby pointing the nose away from the target.
In One on One battles removing this rule may not really make much difference other than making the engagement shorter. However when you start having dog fights with larger numbers of planes it does help simulate the problem of a group of planes trying to shoot at a single plane.
In real life 1 vs Several is difficult for the several in that they must attempt a firing solution that does not cross the flight of a friendly. If the single plane can get into the middle of the group he has a chance to avoid SOME damage. The overlaps act as cover to protect him, and at least one plane always seems to be blocking the shot of another plane. LOTS of FUN!!

[Goering Ace]

The altitude rules do have a larger impact than you may think. In addition to giving you that much need distance between you and your enemy's guns in a crucial situation (with a dive or climb), it brings added strategy into the game. You may not be aware of such maneuvers as the overdive, which is executed with following three maneuvers : stall - dive - straight. This maneuver will drop you two altitude numbers in one three card maneuver (from level 3 to level 1, for example), which can be used to either close quickly on an opponent from a high altitude, or escape quickly. This maneuver is also found in Burning Drachens, in the Altitude Optional Rules section (you loose one level after the dive and the second level after the straight maneuver).

The altitude rules are a great addition to the game and I'm sure after you try them a few times you'll see just how much different the game play becomes when using them.

[rockyr]

Altitude rules certainly help scouts to put 2-seaters in their place: tail spins. Flying below that damnable tailgun is almost a must. Still, the rules allow quite a bit more downward fire than I would have expected. I do have to remember that rolls are not depicted, and such moves give the guys in back quite a reach.