Multiple damage decks?

[Ken at Sunrise]

I know that in X-Wing we generally do not combine the damage decks as it throws the distribution off. Another thing people liked about this game, compared to X-Wing, is the lack of dice. Everyone has their own damage deck so everyone has the same chance and same distribution of damage.

But over at BGG they suggest, not only combining decks, but one said they combined an shuffled the decks then split them into separate groups.

What is the thoughts here?

Here is the BGG link: Multiple damage decks?

[Sagrilarus]

I know that in X-Wing we generally do not combine the damage decks as it throws the distribution off. Another thing people liked about this game, compared to X-Wing, is the lack of dice. Everyone has their own damage deck so everyone has the same chance and same distribution of damage.

But over at BGG they suggest, not only combining decks, but one said they combined an shuffled the decks then split them into separate groups.

What is the thoughts here?

Here is the BGG link: Multiple damage decks?

Yep, that's me. I highly recommend multiple decks even with just a few players. It keeps the distribution for any particular pick more even. Everyone having their own damage deck is kind of a hokey way to do it as far as I'm concerned, as it brings significant dependence between prior events and future events, events that presumably are independent of each other in the real world. I could understand doing it that way from a convenience perspective, if each player brings their own and you need more than one.

Truth be told a die roll and a lookup table would be the best way to do it from a distribution perspective, but the cards are just so doggone convenient and quick. Having multiple decks in a single pile makes for as dependable distribution as you can get. None of the "the kaboom card is gone, we're good to go!" stuff.

[Ken at Sunrise]

Good point, each shot would be independent of every other shot. A complete random distribution. But then it really isn't better than dice I guess. In this case it is possible that one deck could, but unlikely, get loaded with all of the Boom cards and the other with zeros. The side with Boom cards would be at a disadvantage. All in the luck of the roll of the dice or draw of the cards.

Truly not being critical, just food for thought and I am curious what everyone is doing.

[Nightbomber]

As John wrote, multiple decks - yes (I use 2 copies), but shuffled TOGETHER, forming ONE common deck.
As far as X/W damage system is concerned I do not find it's dice hit/cancel hit disturbing. Moreover, if you fly better than casual and have some necessary luck you can end even a prolonged fight with just a scratch which is higly impossible in WoG, where sooner or later someone has to be licked by flames.

[Sagrilarus]

In this case it is possible that one deck could, but unlikely, get loaded with all of the Boom cards and the other with zeros. The side with Boom cards would be at a disadvantage.

Oh yeah. And it's not uncommon for a player to look at the back of the card on top of one deck and say, "nope, looks dangerous. I'm pulling from the other deck!" As far as I'm concerned if someone wants to lift half of the four inches of cards up and pull from the center I'm ok with it. Superstition runs strong in remarkably rational people.

By the way, when I say "one side of the table" I don't mean one team's side, I mean the two ends of the table that the players aren't at. That is, the side that connects the Allies and the Entente on one end, and the side that connects the Entente and the Allies on the other. That way the decks don't get bumped by players leaning over to move planes.

Truly not being critical, just food for thought and I am curious what everyone is doing.

It's a fair question, as it's a variant to the official rules (or at least an interpretation covering a missing condition.) That one big deck also makes for super-fast setup and breakdown. Anyone who's hosted 10+ players knows that there's an hour of work to do afterwards verifying that the maneuver decks are correct with those tiny little numbers, taking the damage decks out of that work is a net plus.

(Snarky reference to the infernal chits in WGS and SofG elided from the end of this post.)

[Sagrilarus]

And I might add that when you said "it isn't really better than dice" I'll respond yes. But I like dice. I think dice solve one great big pile of problems in game design. When you need 30 sides with numbers and special damage on them you end up with a die the size of a baseball, so cards are the logical replacement.

[flash]

... But over at BGG they suggest, not only combining decks, but one said they combined an shuffled the decks then split them into separate groups. What is the thoughts here? ...

Most people I have gamed with have gone the same route - two or three decks shuffled together as a central draw. When a machine is downed the cards it collected are shuffled back into the deck so the Boom's are always in play. In the past I have played in games where we used a double deck but noted the damage received and returned the cards to the GM.
For my solo gaming I now give each side a double deck shuffled so each side has the same odds at the start.
I think to shuffle multiple decks is OK, to split them into separate too so long as everyone can access any deck on the table - you fate is then in your own hands.

[Stumptonian]

I have 2 "A" decks on each side of the table plus 2 "B" decks.
I only shuffle the cards back into the deck after a boom is drawn.
If there is less than a third of a deck left I shuffle the decks together.
For incidental fire, such as infantry, I use WoW cards from a central pile.

[Пилот]

I use double "decks" (I made chits) combined in one big deck for each damage type.

Also, I'm thinking of way how to split numerical and special damage, so one could take, say, 5 and MG Jamming or 0 and Pilot etc.

I have an idea to use 36-sided dice for A and C damage, 48-sided dice for B damage etc. Each Numerical + Special pair represents one card. So, for close range you roll 2N an 2S dice, and 1N + 1S for short range.

This approach will need slight tweak to obtain aporopriate damage ratio for all decks as decks have less cards then dice have sides - and would be slightly different from original decks, but similar enough.

Upside: Probability for any numerical or special damage is always the same.
Downside: Any damage becomes public.

It's just a though for now, but I may do something about it in the future.

[zenlizard]

None of the "the kaboom card is gone, we're good to go!" stuff.

Yes, the primary reason I use multiple damage decks for large games.

[gully_raker]

I have always used shuffled together "Double Decks" both A & B for both Club & Solo games.
Works well for me.

[milcoll73]

i use 2 A decks primarily so i dont have to reshuffle the 1st time the boom card rears its ugly head. if i remember correctly the rulebook recommends using another A deck if you have more than 4 aircraft.

[Boney10]

I generally use a double deck, shuffled together, normally with the boom cards seeded into the bottom third of the deck.
Just dont reshuffle once seeded, as I did once to Flying Helmuts chagrin

In other games I have put a single deck for each side, I have two caddies, although this works I generally prefer the first method.

[grumpybear]

In bigger games ( I mean with lots of planes 3 each) I shuffle as many as 3 decks together depending on the number of guns. So if everyone is flying 2 seaters you need a lot of B decks. I do not shuffle used cards back into deck

[Setarius]

I use 2 "A" and 2 "B" decks and 1 each C&D, in my WGF scenarios. And 1 batch of chips for each in my WGS scenarios. I don't reshuffle the damage back in after it is chosen.
Someone has suggested in the House Rules section to limit the ammo available you deal out to each player a specific number of cards and when they fire on someone they hand over the top face down card. You never know who would have the boom cards or pilot wound cards at any time, they may be there or not.
I would think in the instance of a large game multiple decks and multiple batches of chips would be used and controlled by one central person with control of the decks and marks down the damage and then reshuffle the deck.

[Horse4261]

For my own solo games I have scanned and printed four copies of both the A and B decks which are shuffled together into common draw piles and keep a tally on damages done and return the cards to a central discard pile for reshuffling. I normally extract the boom cards out of the decks as I prefer longer lasting solo games. Using my own printed cards saves on the wear and tear of my originals. I normally don't keep track of ammo limits as for just me it's just so much more book keeping I don't need.

[Windy Jack]

Like a number of you have already said, we too use more than one damage deck when we have a lot of planes. We just shuffle the decks together to make one large deck of each type of damage card. We don't have a fixed rule about shuffling cards back in. We make a decision during the game based on how many planes are still flying and how much time we have left before we plan to finish.

[badlands122]

I think all the answers to the questions here are valid, my ONLY question is where do you get the "B" damage cards?? I only have the "A" set.

[Dwarflord22]

I usually am playing with two to four players a side. I have a damage deck for each side.

[brdavis]

I think all the answers to the questions here are valid, my ONLY question is where do you get the "B" damage cards?? I only have the "A" set.

The B deck is most readily available in the Rules and Accessories Pack. In the Wings of War days they could be found in the 'Watch Your Back' and 'Flight of Giants' boxes, which can occasionally be found on eBay at good prices. I've heard (read) rumors of a new early war duel pack that would contain a B deck, but I've not seen anything official on that - probably just hopeful thinking at this point.

[Boney10]

Remember that you can use a A deck to represent the B deck by halving the damage , rounding up.

B decks are found in WoG Rules and Acessories pack, or if can find one, a Balloon set or and old Wings of War Watch you rBack box set

[AndrewG73]

Thanks for this discussion. It wasn't something that I had considered being a rookie to the game but I can see how it adds huge benefits.