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Thread: Striping ideas for German aircraft

  1. #1

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    Default Striping ideas for German aircraft

    You may remember Carl Brisgamer's repainted Jentsch Albatros DVa, done up in a German naval pilot's scheme, for which he painted/decaled a red and blue stripe around the fuselage, based on the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross...

    I happen to have a modest collection of WW1 Iron Cross 2nd Class equivalents from various German states that made up Imperial Germany during the war. Perhaps you know that those various states/duchies/principalities/kingdoms had awards of their own that they could bestow upon pilots native to their 'countries', as well as to those from elsewhere in the German Empire. The Iron Cross 2nd Class (and the 1st Class version, too) were awarded by Prussia and the Kaiser, and it could be awarded to any constituent member of the military; there was even a 2nd Class version awarded to civilians, which reversed the colors on the 'normal' Iron Cross ribbon. Some of the various 'countries' even had equivalents to the 1st Class version that could be pinned on the uniform similar to the way the Iron Cross 1st Class was worn, on the lower left breast of the tunic.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The picture above shows those medals in my collection which are not framed - I have several framed and on display in the basement Man Cave...I have broken this picture into four 'close-ups' below.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From left to right: Saxon War Cross, Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service, and Lippe-Detmold War Merit Cross 2nd Class

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From left to right: Hanseatic Cross for Bremen, Hanseatic Cross for Hamburg, and the Prussian Order of the Red Eagle with Swords on War Ribbon (which was the same ribbon as the Iron Cross 2nd Class)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From left to right: the ribbon for the Hanseatic Cross from Luebeck, the Brunswick War Merit Cross 2nd Class, and the Bavarian Ludwig Cross

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From left to right: the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class, the Mecklenburg-Schwerin Military Merit Cross 2nd Class, and the Anhalt Military Merit Cross

    Typically, the Iron Cross 2nd Class was worn sewn in the buttonhole on the front of the tunic at an angle - I'm sure you've seen this in pictures of WWI German pilots. Sometimes you will see a second ribbon worn with the Iron Cross 2nd Class - often it is one of the other states' equivalent version, and sometimes it is 'the Hohenzollern', a Prussian order usually considered higher than the Iron Cross and a stepping stone on the way to the Pour le Merite (Blue Max) - it is the same ribbon as the Iron Cross 2nd Class but has crossed swords pinned on it.

    So any pilot who was graced by his homeland with such an award might consider using its ribbon colors as a decoration on his plane. Conversely, pilots would use colors or abbreviations or emblems associated with their parent regiments (those they were in before transferring to the Air Service) - often the colors were associated with the facings/shoulder strap of their previous unit. This, too, is why so many pictures of pilots show them in such a wide array of uniforms - von Richthofen is a prime example - he is always wearing his Uhlan uniform in the vast majority of his pictures.

    Some pilots used colors or emblems associated with the coat of arms of their home town or state, or family coats-of-arms, or even names of girlfriends (Udet is probably the most famous of these). So many options for a modeler/gamer wanting to change things up and repaint a plane or two...

    There is a treasure-trove of info out there, in books and on the internet. As someone who likes to repaint planes, it's fun to do it with a bit of 'historical accuracy' involved. Thanks for letting me waffle on about this stuff ...I really do enjoy this aspect of WWI history.

    All the best,
    Matt

  2. #2

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    Interesting Matt....nice read and great collection.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt56 View Post

    ............ or even names of girlfriends (Udet is probably the most famous of these)..................
    or one Leutnant Helmut Pfeiffer! <<see avatar and banner!>>



    Fascinating stuff, Matt!
    I have a fair few replica medals, which I have been known to wear at the game table (psyches-out the opposition something awful! )

    I'll dig them out and try to post up a picture or two.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  4. #4

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    Great collection Matt, I appreciate your input regarding this fascinating aspect of military history and the time and effort it must have taken you to collect these beauties. It is a good reminder that Germany as a country had only existed since 1871 and all the various political entities prior to the 'Vereinigung' had their own military traditions and orders.

    I wish I could rep you some more!

  5. #5

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    Thanks, Carl! The 'tribal' or 'local' nature of the German Army in WWI was actually similar to the British Army, in many ways. And it's easy to overlook the fact that there were so many small and large-ish 'states' that made up the Imperial German Army. Many of them had their own orders, chivalric and otherwise, and some of them that didn't have them already instituted Iron Cross equivalents once the war began, in an effort to be on a par with Prussia and to be able to award their native sons (as well as other notables - von Richthofen himself had many of these smaller states' awards on his medal bar).

    I've been fascinated by this aspect of the conflict for some time now - the colors and designs are certainly eye-catching and unusual, and when I began collecting militaria in West Berlin in the mid-70s, these decorations were much cheaper than some other options and were (at that time, anyway) much less prone to reproduction.

    Tim - HOW could I forget Pfeiffer's adoration of his 'Steffi' - ah, the romantic nature of the Teutonic Soul....

    All the best,
    Matt

  6. #6

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    Great report and pictures VERY NICE!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt56 View Post
    ...ah, the romantic nature of the Teutonic Soul....
    Scary thought Matt.....

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  8. #8

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    Awesome collection Matt. The exploitation is like a Google search but with pictures to go along with the narrative.

  9. #9

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    Fantastic collection Matt. Recently I started looking for similar trinkets but so far have not purchases anything.

  10. #10

    Thumbs up


    Really great collection you have acquired Matt.
    Thanks for sharing with us.

  11. #11

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    Very nice collection. Great condition too.

  12. #12

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    Very nice! When I used to run a regular campaign, I made it a habit to award medals to my pilots on a regular basis. Now... mine were only virtual copies -- it's nice to see a few of them in high-quality photos.

  13. #13

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    Nice collection, Matt.

    I'sse if I can find some medals of my relatives.

    I have WW I and WW II ones.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  14. #14

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    That would be wonderful to see, Sven. My great uncle was in the Reitende Jaeger in WWI and my uncle (his son) was in the Kavallerie in WWII; while I know something of their service and that my great uncle received the EKII, I assume my cousins have any other memorabilia they might have had.

    All the best,
    Matt

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt56 View Post
    You may remember Carl Brisgamer's repainted Jentsch Albatros DVa, done up in a German naval pilot's scheme, for which he painted/decaled a red and blue stripe around the fuselage, based on the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross...

    I happen to have a modest collection of WW1 Iron Cross 2nd Class equivalents from various German states that made up Imperial Germany during the war. Perhaps you know that those various states/duchies/principalities/kingdoms had awards of their own that they could bestow upon pilots native to their 'countries', as well as to those from elsewhere in the German Empire. The Iron Cross 2nd Class (and the 1st Class version, too) were awarded by Prussia and the Kaiser, and it could be awarded to any constituent member of the military; there was even a 2nd Class version awarded to civilians, which reversed the colors on the 'normal' Iron Cross ribbon. Some of the various 'countries' even had equivalents to the 1st Class version that could be pinned on the uniform similar to the way the Iron Cross 1st Class was worn, on the lower left breast of the tunic.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0917.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	183.4 KB 
ID:	225995

    The picture above shows those medals in my collection which are not framed - I have several framed and on display in the basement Man Cave...I have broken this picture into four 'close-ups' below.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0918.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	212.2 KB 
ID:	225996

    From left to right: Saxon War Cross, Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service, and Lippe-Detmold War Merit Cross 2nd Class

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0920.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	179.0 KB 
ID:	225997

    From left to right: Hanseatic Cross for Bremen, Hanseatic Cross for Hamburg, and the Prussian Order of the Red Eagle with Swords on War Ribbon (which was the same ribbon as the Iron Cross 2nd Class)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0921.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	208.3 KB 
ID:	225998

    From left to right: the ribbon for the Hanseatic Cross from Luebeck, the Brunswick War Merit Cross 2nd Class, and the Bavarian Ludwig Cross

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0922.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	181.6 KB 
ID:	225999

    From left to right: the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class, the Mecklenburg-Schwerin Military Merit Cross 2nd Class, and the Anhalt Military Merit Cross

    Typically, the Iron Cross 2nd Class was worn sewn in the buttonhole on the front of the tunic at an angle - I'm sure you've seen this in pictures of WWI German pilots. Sometimes you will see a second ribbon worn with the Iron Cross 2nd Class - often it is one of the other states' equivalent version, and sometimes it is 'the Hohenzollern', a Prussian order usually considered higher than the Iron Cross and a stepping stone on the way to the Pour le Merite (Blue Max) - it is the same ribbon as the Iron Cross 2nd Class but has crossed swords pinned on it.

    So any pilot who was graced by his homeland with such an award might consider using its ribbon colors as a decoration on his plane. Conversely, pilots would use colors or abbreviations or emblems associated with their parent regiments (those they were in before transferring to the Air Service) - often the colors were associated with the facings/shoulder strap of their previous unit. This, too, is why so many pictures of pilots show them in such a wide array of uniforms - von Richthofen is a prime example - he is always wearing his Uhlan uniform in the vast majority of his pictures.

    Some pilots used colors or emblems associated with the coat of arms of their home town or state, or family coats-of-arms, or even names of girlfriends (Udet is probably the most famous of these). So many options for a modeler/gamer wanting to change things up and repaint a plane or two...

    There is a treasure-trove of info out there, in books and on the internet. As someone who likes to repaint planes, it's fun to do it with a bit of 'historical accuracy' involved. Thanks for letting me waffle on about this stuff ...I really do enjoy this aspect of WWI history.

    All the best,
    Matt
    What a fantastic collection Matt, and the history surrounding each one must be incredible . Do you trawl the Net or do you have a tame shop keeper


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  16. #16

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    Great info Matt and some interesting ideas for colour schemes. Must keep this in mind when I paint up my 9 Albatros DIII's.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  17. #17

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    lovely collection matt!!! my meager collection consists of an EKI, EKII, and bavarian cross of military merit.

  18. #18

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    Paul, I had a favorite shop when I was stationed in West Berlin, although there were lots of flea markets - open-air and otherwise - one could frequent. But the one shop was a trustworthy fellow who had LOTS of cool Imperial stuff, much of it out of the price range of my sergeant's pay...

    In SW Ohio we are fortunate to have a militaria show put on by the Ohio Valley Militaria Society - twice a year at a convention center about 25 minutes away. They also do a huge show once a year in Louisville, Kentucky, about 2 1/2 hours south of us. I've belonged to the OVMS for a number of years now, and that's where I've acquired the majority of these. Sometimes you seen nothing, and other times you find a couple...but it's fun to try and 'hunt' some up. Unfortunately, some of these WWI medals are being reproduced now, and the repros are quite good...

    All the best,
    Matt

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt56 View Post
    Paul, I had a favorite shop when I was stationed in West Berlin, although there were lots of flea markets - open-air and otherwise - one could frequent. But the one shop was a trustworthy fellow who had LOTS of cool Imperial stuff, much of it out of the price range of my sergeant's pay...

    In SW Ohio we are fortunate to have a militaria show put on by the Ohio Valley Militaria Society - twice a year at a convention center about 25 minutes away. They also do a huge show once a year in Louisville, Kentucky, about 2 1/2 hours south of us. I've belonged to the OVMS for a number of years now, and that's where I've acquired the majority of these. Sometimes you seen nothing, and other times you find a couple...but it's fun to try and 'hunt' some up. Unfortunately, some of these WWI medals are being reproduced now, and the repros are quite good...

    All the best,
    Matt


    im envious of your proximity. ive only been to the show of shows once back in the 1980s. ive always meant to join the OVMS but somehow never got around to it.

  20. #20

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    It's official

    I can confirm Matt's 'Man Cave' is better equipped than some museums i have visited !

    And i survived the 'Man Cave' experience..a very pleasant one at that!

    If you tried to mount that lot to wear you would need one hell of a chest my friend!

    so have another to add to the collection,

    All the best,

    Mav



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