Intro and Retire Dates

**Ken at Sunrise** · 04-10-2017 13:35

I've seen several places that have intro and retirement dates but that often differ.

For the Ares planes Series 1-9, where is the best place or file here to file intro and retirement dates. Like so many others I'm trying to build a graphic time line, but I'm doing it with planes I own so I need it to be more dynamic than a down load.

If I have a source that most here agree on I'll load those dates. Many of you have a bit more history knowledge to know the best resources.

Thanks,

**kalnaren** · 04-10-2017 16:31

This might help.

**monse** · 04-10-2017 17:22

You can load this historical timeline
http://merlindex.free.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/chronologie.pdf

Made by SirErickson, a French gamer who created the next Verdun game mat for Wings of Glory

**Ken at Sunrise** · 04-11-2017 04:39

Very interesting.

Thanks

**Ken at Sunrise** · 04-12-2017 06:27

I ended up using the dates from An Updated Tactical Walk Through of Aircraft. Anyone see any major issues with using those?

**tikkifriend** · 04-12-2017 07:05

Nice looking mat, any chance of getting one?

**monse** · 04-12-2017 07:17

Originally Posted by tikkifriend

Nice looking mat, any chance of getting one?

It's a quite old project
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...light=ERICKSON

Ares Games has the intention to publish it in 2017.
The mat is divided in three parts, each part has the dimension of a regular WOG mat.

a funny GIF
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/...0013240309.gif

on the other side

**tikkifriend** · 04-12-2017 07:43

2117 you say

Well worth waiting for.

**Ken at Sunrise** · 04-12-2017 07:54

One thing I wish our maps had was elevation lines or Contour Lines. Many of the maps, as we can see, have hills. The Contour Lines, each line could represent one peg in height of elevation. We could ignore it for the base game, and even ignore it for the standard altitude rules. But think of the possibilities or maneuvering around hill tops to ducking behind them when fleeing. Also sighting rules that might allow you to see an opponent before they see you.

**flash** · 04-12-2017 09:25

Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise

I ended up using the dates from An Updated Tactical Walk Through of Aircraft. Anyone see any major issues with using those?

And I took them from the Unofficial Stats committee documentation Ken - they will be as good as any !
Due to the passage of time and loss of records it is difficult to be very precise with in/out of service dates - some 'in' dates include intro/testing of prototypes rather than general deployments of aircraft to squadrons in quantity.

**Ken at Sunrise** · 04-12-2017 10:57

Originally Posted by flash

some 'in' dates include intro/testing of prototypes rather than general deployments of aircraft to squadrons in quantity.

Then when I have some time I may adjust my dates to reflect some of the other I see that are more conservative.

Thanks,

**Boney10** · 04-12-2017 12:13

I hope that mat, no matter how pretty, does NOT, follow the standard pattern.
As is the three mat map looks great, BUT, for shows most of us use 4, 6 or even 8 maps. If the trench/ no mans land portion does not touch both sides of the mat for large, show games its pretty useless, as is the current trench mat, there is a big green section in the middle if two mats are put together and the current coast mat, which can only be played in one corner of the set up, you cant use two to form a coastline.
Yes I suppose I am being pedantic.

**zenlizard** · 04-12-2017 12:54

Originally Posted by flash

some 'in' dates include intro/testing of prototypes rather than general deployments of aircraft to squadrons in quantity.

And to muddy the waters further, there were some aircraft that issued the 'prototypes' issued to certain front-line squadrons for the purpose of combat testing, only to quickly discover a design or manufacturing flaw which necessitated the withdraw until the flaw could be corrected (two Fokker products, the Dr-I and D-VIII spring instantly to mind).

**john snelling** · 04-14-2017 09:37

The Spad VII was used to the end of the war by the French and Italians. Here are some examples.

02 Oct 1918 Sgt. H. Durand of Esc SPA 150 flying a Spad VII was KIA by Ltn.d.R. Blume-27v of Jasta 9 at 10.15 Gueux, W. Reims.

Aug 1918 Esc Spa 153 had Spad XIII/VII x 12 on hand.

14 Jul 1918 Esc 57 had Spad VII/XIII x 10 on their last known inventory

10 Oct 1918 Esc Spa 57 Cpl Albert Le Bescou, KIA, Spad VII n11281 by Ltn Hans von Freden (15v) of Jasta 50.

Italian pilot F. Ranza
18 29 Sep 1918 Spad VII Ufag C.I 123.24 of Flik 2K
He also became the CO when Ruffo became the new XVII Gruppo CO
u/c 29 Oct 1918 Spad VII Fighter
u/c 29 Oct 1918 Spad VII Albatros D.III 253 or Aviatik D.I 338.06

Nieuport 11

Italian 82nd on 28 Oct 1917 had 8 N11’s and 1 N17 and moved to Pordenone.

and of course

Giovanni "Giannino" Ancillotto – began flying the SPAD VII but preferred the Nieuport 11 for balloon busting due to the aircraft was able to carry rockets.
10 Nov 1917 posted from 80a
Nov throughout the month he escorted 2 seaters and engaged in 3 air combats.
5 30 Nov 1917 Nieuport 11 2265 Kite Balloon BK 13
6 03 Dec 1917 Nieuport 11 Kite Balloon BK 10 flew 3 missions
7 05 Dec 1917 Nieuport 11 2265 Kite Balloon BK 2
He was escorted by 3 Spad VIIs his aircraft returned draped with the cloth of the balloon.

I found that some people use the British end dates which are correct for the British but not the French or Italians.

**Stumptonian** · 05-20-2017 11:47

Originally Posted by monse

It's a quite old project
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...light=ERICKSON

Ares Games has the intention to publish it in 2017.
The mat is divided in three parts, each part has the dimension of a regular WOG mat.

I think they have missed the boat on this one.
I don't really see the need - the map would be great for ground action, but doesn't really add much as eye candy from what we already have been given.

I'd much rather they produce the London maps they gave us on paper with the Giants, ans something for the Pacific War for WGS.

**OldGuy59** · 05-20-2017 18:10

Originally Posted by Stumptonian

I think they have missed the boat on this one.
...

I'd much rather they produce ... something for the Pacific War for WGS.

Pete,
A Sails of Glory mat should work for the PTO.

( Carrier Battle Scenario: AAR - Skype Game - Norway, May 1940. OK, not the PTO, but there are carriers there, too.)

Unless you are doing a beach/island attack, in which case a Sails mat with a Coastal mat?

**Stumptonian** · 05-20-2017 20:44

I have a fairly nice blue map I got for our OTT solo missions over water.

I guess all I really need will be some islands.

I do have two Coast maps that I could add more tropical looking bits too if I need to,

Was really just saying that they are late to the party with that Verdun map now, if it is in fact still in the pipeline.

**Zoe Brain** · 05-20-2017 20:47

What I'd like to see is service dates on different fronts with different air forces.

Fronts - UK Home Establishment, Western Front, Italian Front/Adriatic, German Home Defence, Macedonia, Middle East, Eastern Front, Postwar East

For example, there was a single DH-2 on strength in the Middle East in Jan 1918, and Pups were still in use for anti Zep work late in 1918.

**john snelling** · 05-20-2017 22:59

Originally Posted by Zoe Brain

What I'd like to see is service dates on different fronts with different air forces.

Fronts - UK Home Establishment, Western Front, Italian Front/Adriatic, German Home Defence, Macedonia, Middle East, Eastern Front, Postwar East

For example, there was a single DH-2 on strength in the Middle East in Jan 1918, and Pups were still in use for anti Zep work late in 1918.

Zoe, I 100% agree with you it is the only way it can be done. Take a look at the N11 Italy used it up to 04 Nov 1918 in Albania by 85a. Some believe just because a plane was obsolete it was no longer used. Well, that all depends.