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Thread: Next Time Someone Gripes About Overly-Complicated Rules...

  1. #1

    Default Next Time Someone Gripes About Overly-Complicated Rules...

    ...in the ship-construction rules for the game _Star Cruiser_ (the ship-minis-combat game for _2300AD_ by GDW), the following phrase appears:

    "Take the cube-root of the result...."

  2. #2

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    That is easy enough if you have a scientific calculator.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    ...in the ship-construction rules for the game _Star Cruiser_ (the ship-minis-combat game for _2300AD_ by GDW), the following phrase appears:

    "Take the cube-root of the result...."
    and does that continue with "then add the number you first thought of, deduct your age and....."

  4. #4

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    Sounds like somebody needs some STS Therapy... for once it's not French.

    As in, "Steel-Toe Suppository"...
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    That is easy enough if you have a scientific calculator.
    This was the late-1980s.

    There is a line shortly after this one about "books which have cube-root tables"....

  6. #6

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    It will be referring to booklets of 'Logarithmic and Other Tables', which were used in schools and colleges to aid calculations.

  7. #7

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    I never understood it whilst at school I would have no chance now (LoL)

  8. #8

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    You can always use a slide ruler


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    You can always use a slide ruler
    Keep your ungodly futuristic mumbo jumbo to yourself Paul... a slide rule??? what on earth next?

    There can be only one augmented calculation device.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    Keep your ungodly futuristic mumbo jumbo to yourself Paul... a slide rule??? what on earth next?

    There can be only one augmented calculation device.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Witchcraft !!!!!!! he makes the beads count and reveal numbers.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  11. #11

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    I enjoyed Star Cruiser and the design rules (I enjoyed using Striker to design all sorts of vehicles and aircraft too). I never saw them as "over complicated"

    Guess thats why I ended up in a career designing warships and submarines

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    I enjoyed Star Cruiser and the design rules (I enjoyed using Striker to design all sorts of vehicles and aircraft too). I never saw them as "over complicated" :)

    Guess thats why I ended up in a career designing warships and submarines :D
    The fact that pretty-much-every ship design in _SC_ is mathematically incorrect, at least so far as can be determined from the limited data provided, suggests yours is the outlier experience. (When the company who wrote the damned thing can't get it right....)

  13. #13

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    True, but then companies making errors in their product isn't unique

    I have a long and happy experience of outlier experiences - who wants tk be the same as everyone else?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    True, but then companies making errors in their product isn't unique

    I have a long and happy experience of outlier experiences - who wants tk be the same as everyone else?
    The problem is: The best way to learn the game's design system is to reverse engineer the published designs, so one can determine if one is doing it properly. When it's both impossible to determine from the data given what a unit was designed with, *and* what math exists is Wrong, one wonder why'n'ell they bothered including a design system in the first place -- the message is: "We really don't want you designing your own units".

  15. #15

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    Traveller (old style) was littered with ships like that, engines wouldn't fit, fuel calcs not right, too many hardpoints etc. We just took it as sneaky designers in a few shipyards somewhere cutting corners on safety factors

  16. #16

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    WoG is so elegant! Complain? My gaming group was complaining about Sails of Glory being too hard because they kept running into each other. They wanted to go back to very rigid formations??? So I get to play this game by following you? Yuck.

  17. #17

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    In fairness I used to love Dawn Patrol (Orig. Fight in the Skies) but it became bee-hive dogfights. Whatever failings this game has is minimal and does not inflict pain on the players.

  18. #18

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    The worst set of rules was a napoleonic game that covered two 4 x 12 foot tables and was played for over 20 hours at a convention. The most "active" unit moved less than 1 foot. The charts were 11 double sided sheets. I suspect the rule book had a hernia warning.

  19. #19

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    In all fairness I too love this game. But I also love a variety of games. Some of them had complicated sets of rules for things such as Star Ship Design. Sometimes it was multiple dice rolls just to see if you damaged anything.

    For a good example of this you might try the old Yaquinto game Ironclads. In that game one rolled for location; noted the armor vrs hit; checked the table for the correct ration; rolled on that table for damage; if there was a penetration on the prior roll, roll again on the penetration table; if either roll resulted in a critical, roll on the critical table; if there were sections on that table, roll again for which critical to apply. That is potentially 5 separate dice rolls on four tables for a single weapon shot. We still love that game.

    It depends on the game and how it is designed. Some are so overly complex they become daunting and no fun. Sometimes I think I just no longer want to invest the time to learn a 75 page rule book to play the game. Sometimes, like Ironclads, the dice adds to the excitement of the shot and the thrill of an explosion or a total miss.

    WoG WWI is right about perfect for what it does. Sure we can add our own rules for more realism and many do. But the lack of record keeping, except by a few tokens; everything you need being right on the board or plane card all keeps it simple yet thoughtful. Even the three maneuver cards per turn makes this a better dog fight game where you have to think ahead. Where will your opponent(s) be, where do I need to be. Even the altitude, though out of scale to the plane, if a good fit. Several of the options state that because theirs are so realistic you'll only use a small band of the entire range.

  20. #20

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    Next Time Someone Gripes About Overly-Complicated Rules...
    But I play WoG... ? No-one ever complains about the rules, we're too busy laughing and having a good time??


  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfimp View Post
    But I play WoG... ? No-one ever complains about the rules, we're too busy laughing and having a good time??








    well i hear the odd lament about the boom card. other then that.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    well i hear the odd lament about the boom card
    That is quite arguably the simplest rule of all!

  23. #23

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    No complaints from me. It is fun game to play with friends.

  24. #24

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    If someone complains I am prepared to pull out a 40K Rulebook, Codex book, 3 Supplement books, as well as a multi-page FAQ... and that is just to play one faction!

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    If someone complains I am prepared to pull out a 40K Rulebook, Codex book, 3 Supplement books, as well as a multi-page FAQ... and that is just to play one faction!
    Amen!

    Though you forgot about the part where they need to spend $1 (or more!) per point of army they want to bring, too

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyking20 View Post
    The worst set of rules was a napoleonic game that covered two 4 x 12 foot tables and was played for over 20 hours at a convention. The most "active" unit moved less than 1 foot. The charts were 11 double sided sheets. I suspect the rule book had a hernia warning.
    Wow! I hate to ask the name of that game
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    For a good example of this you might try the old Yaquinto game Ironclads. In that game one rolled for location; noted the armor vrs hit; checked the table for the correct ration; rolled on that table for damage; if there was a penetration on the prior roll, roll again on the penetration table; if either roll resulted in a critical, roll on the critical table; if there were sections on that table, roll again for which critical to apply. That is potentially 5 separate dice rolls on four tables for a single weapon shot. We still love that game.
    I have a copy of it, and the follow-up.

    I have also converted most of the ship designs to _Space:1889_'s minis-combat rules.

    THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. :)

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfimp View Post
    That is quite arguably the simplest rule of all!
    too true. they seem to have the biggest problem with its frequency of appearance lol.



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