Christmas books - Eindekker, DH2 and Pups

['Warspite']

This is an extract of an email just sent to a friend…

"I picked up a biography of Lanoe Hawker last week (flew DH2s, commanded the first RFC all-fighter squadron) and his brother (the author) confirms that the Fokker Eindekker could easily outdive the DH2 which was my logical suspicion already but it was nice to have it confirmed. It appears all pushers are poor divers. The modern FE2 pusher reproduction in New Zealand dives like a parachute.
The same day I got another book by a Pup/Camel pilot who confirms that Pups were much superior to Albatroses at altitude in both climb AND turn. This is due to the Pup's much lower wing loading. At lower altitudes the Albatroses' higher speed and twin gun firepower was much respected by the Pups. At the higher altitudes the Albatroses appear to almost flounder. Pups regularly got above them and the Albatroses would then refuse to engage.
The Pup pilot makes another point, just clearing a gun jam above 16,000 feet was a pig - due to lack of oxygen. I had previously read that pilots with Foster mount top-wing Lewis guns, like the SE5, could not change drums above 15,000 feet. This was because they were unable to lift the gun back into place due to the lack of oxygen.
I was previously unaware that just cocking and clearing a jam on a fixed Vickers was similarly affected.
If playing height rules jam clearances above 15,000 should be more difficult."


Barry

[gully_raker]

Interesting info there Barry.
Would you mind giving us the Book Titles. Particularly the Pup pilot one.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

This is an extract of an email just sent to a friend…

"I picked up a biography of Lanoe Hawker last week (flew DH2s, commanded the first RFC all-fighter squadron) and his brother (the author) confirms that the Fokker Eindekker could easily outdive the DH2 which was my logical suspicion already but it was nice to have it confirmed. It appears all pushers are poor divers. The modern FE2 pusher reproduction in New Zealand dives like a parachute.
The same day I got another book by a Pup/Camel pilot who confirms that Pups were much superior to Albatroses at altitude in both climb AND turn. This is due to the Pup's much lower wing loading. At lower altitudes the Albatroses' higher speed and twin gun firepower was much respected by the Pups. At the higher altitudes the Albatroses appear to almost flounder. Pups regularly got above them and the Albatroses would then refuse to engage.
The Pup pilot makes another point, just clearing a gun jam above 16,000 feet was a pig - due to lack of oxygen. I had previously read that pilots with Foster mount top-wing Lewis guns, like the SE5, could not change drums above 15,000 feet. This was because they were unable to lift the gun back into place due to the lack of oxygen.
I was previously unaware that just cocking and clearing a jam on a fixed Vickers was similarly affected.
If playing height rules jam clearances above 15,000 should be more difficult."


Barry

The effects of oxygen deprivation (hypoxia) at altitude are insidious as most individuals will not recognize that they are experiencing the condition. From http://www.dr-amy.com/rich/oxygen/:

"For the normal individual, the affects of hypoxia are not detectable below pressure altitudes of 10,000 feet. Above 10,000 feet, the deleterious affects of hypoxia increase slowly at first, but then rapidly as altitude is increased above approximately 12,000 feet. Complex eye-hand coordination such as is required to maintain airspeed, heading, or vertical velocity decreases approximately 10% at 12,000 feet and 20-30% at 15,000 feet. At 12,000 feet, the dark-adapted eye begins to experience significant deterioration in vision. Unconsciousness may occur at altitudes as low as 16,000 feet in some individuals. The most dangerous aspect of hypoxia is that the individual experiencing hypoxia does not and cannot detect the decrement in function and loses the ability for critical judgement."

Given these conditions I would say you could use the 'wounded pilot' rules as they appear in the WGF RAP for aircraft flying above 15,000 feet - 4 turns to clear a gun jam, no shooting after a steep manoeuvre. Of course this would not apply to aircraft fitted with oxygen cylinders, which were standard in high altitude two seaters such as the Rumpler C.IV and as the war progressed were often installed into single seat scouts as well.

Some pilots would also attempt to acclimatize their bodies by purposely flying at high altitude for prolonged periods, much the same as mountain climbers do when preparing for an assault on Everest for example. Medical research has identified however that while such a process which requires weeks to complete will offset the impact of hypoxia on the body, it will not completely nullify the effects (http://www.everestnews.com/stories20...ss01112005.htm)

['Warspite']

Interesting info there Barry.
Would you mind giving us the Book Titles. Particularly the Pup pilot one.

The Pup book is Open Cockpit by Arthur Gould Lee and published by Grub Street.

The Lanoe Hawker book is Hawker VC RFC Ace by Tyrrel Hawker MC, his brother and published by Pen and Sword.

My only quibble with the Hawker book (so far) is that Tyrrel gives a description of the combat and describes his brother's cockpit actions in detail including wrestling with a dud engine. As Hawker did not survive the combat this is clearly speculation. It may be based on a brief report (also in the book) in which an officer speculates that Lanoe MAY have had a dud engine. Richthofen makes no mention of this and his description of the fight - with both machines circling at full bank - implies that the DH2's engine was at full power. Hawker could not have sustained the banked turn otherwise.
My guess is that the brother may have grasped at any reason for Lanoe's death despite the fact that other parts of the book do confirm the technical superiority of the Germans at this time. Earlier in the book Tyrrel Hawker describes the superiority which the DH2 enjoyed over the Eindekker which then disappeared with the arrival of the German 'fast scouts', later identified as Halberstadts and then Albatroses.

['Warspite']

The effects of oxygen deprivation (hypoxia) at altitude are insidious as most individuals will not recognize that they are experiencing the condition. From http://www.dr-amy.com/rich/oxygen/:

"For the normal individual, the affects of hypoxia are not detectable below pressure altitudes of 10,000 feet. Above 10,000 feet, the deleterious affects of hypoxia increase slowly at first, but then rapidly as altitude is increased above approximately 12,000 feet. Complex eye-hand coordination such as is required to maintain airspeed, heading, or vertical velocity decreases approximately 10% at 12,000 feet and 20-30% at 15,000 feet. At 12,000 feet, the dark-adapted eye begins to experience significant deterioration in vision. Unconsciousness may occur at altitudes as low as 16,000 feet in some individuals. The most dangerous aspect of hypoxia is that the individual experiencing hypoxia does not and cannot detect the decrement in function and loses the ability for critical judgement."

Given these conditions I would say you could use the 'wounded pilot' rules as they appear in the WGF RAP for aircraft flying above 15,000 feet - 4 turns to clear a gun jam, no shooting after a steep manoeuvre. Of course this would not apply to aircraft fitted with oxygen cylinders, which were standard in high altitude two seaters such as the Rumpler C.IV and as the war progressed were often installed into single seat scouts as well.

Some pilots would also attempt to acclimatize their bodies by purposely flying at high altitude for prolonged periods, much the same as mountain climbers do when preparing for an assault on Everest for example. Medical research has identified however that such a process which requires weeks to complete will offset the impact of hypoxia on the body, it will not completely nullify the effects (http://www.everestnews.com/stories20...ss01112005.htm)

My understanding is that the USAAF in WW2 went on oxygen at 12,000 feet.
With the RAF Typhoon the drill was to stay on oxygen from start-up and take-off but that was because the Typhoon was known to have carbon-monoxide leaking into the cockpit.

[gully_raker]

The Pup book is Open Cockpit by Arthur Gould Lee and published by Grub Street.

The Lanoe Hawker book is Hawker VC RFC Ace by Tyrrel Hawker MC, his brother and published by Pen and Sword.

My only quibble with the Hawker book (so far) is that Tyrrel gives a description of the combat and describes his brother's cockpit actions in detail including wrestling with a dud engine. As Hawker did not survive the combat this is clearly speculation. It may be based on a brief report (also in the book) in which an officer speculates that Lanoe MAY have had a dud engine. Richthofen makes no mention of this and his description of the fight - with both machines circling at full bank - implies that the DH2's engine was at full power. Hawker could not have sustained the banked turn otherwise.
My guess is that the brother may have grasped at any reason for Lanoe's death despite the fact that other parts of the book do confirm the technical superiority of the Germans at this time. Earlier in the book Tyrrel Hawker describes the superiority which the DH2 enjoyed over the Eindekker which then disappeared with the arrival of the German 'fast scouts', later identified as Halberstadts and then Albatroses.

Thanks mate! Open Cockpit is on my "to get" list & I agree with you re a Dud engine for Hawker. Just speculation & not born out by descriptions of the fight by others.

[Naharaht]

Thank you for the information about those two books, Barry. They sound like interesting reading.

['Warspite']

Thank you for the information about those two books, Barry. They sound like interesting reading.

The Hawker book is good as his brother was based near him, they often met and Lanoe discussed tactics and weapons with him in some detail.

The Arthur Gould Lee book is interesting as it covers Pup operations in detail as well as the difficulties of operating at altitude. Even in June and July, the pilots tasked for the high flights were still having to wear multiple layers of shirts and jumpers, sheepskin (fleece-lined) over-trousers, thick jackets, tight scarves and were applying liberal quantities of whale oil to their skin to prevent frost bite of any skin not covered by the goggles or flying helmet. This whale oil stunk like hell and had to be scraped off after the flight was over.

Lee also discusses the physical effects of a power dive from altitude where the body does not get time to re-acclimatise to the greater air pressure and higher oxygen content. The effect was severe physical pain and some disorientation. The pain was worst in the limbs but the thick clothing prevented him beating his limbs to ease the pain and re-establish circulation. He had barely recovered by the time the flight leader signalled 'wash out' and they flew home.

I should add that my Christmas gift from my partner was a copy of Blood Red Roses, the post-mortem and other reports of the only medieval war grave to be properly excavated in Britain. It was found behind the battlefield of Towton (1461) and represents some 28 routing Lancastrians who fled the field and were cut down on the run. The so-called "Wars of the Roses" are a major subject of mine and I have just put the finishing touches to version 2.1 of my rules, Bills, Bows and Bloodshed.

Barry

[john snelling]

Great info! Barry.
I knew the Pup was very good in alt. but, just did not realize how it effected the pilot.

I'm suffering from "New Years" lack of judgement.

In this case is it affected "influenced or touched by an external factor"
or
effected "cause (something) to happen; bring about"?

[csadn]

Great info! Barry.
I knew the Pup was very good in alt. but, just did not realize how it effected the pilot.

I'm suffering from "New Years" lack of judgement.

In this case is it affected "influenced or touched by an external factor"
or
effected "cause (something) to happen; bring about"?

"Affected".

[john snelling]

"Affected".

Thanks!!