Suggestions for Dog-fighting Tactics

[Gladeius]

Hello Everyone,

I have been playing the WWI game on and off for a while but I am new to the WWII game. I am really enjoying myself. I am struggling a bit and looking for some feedback regarding tactics. In the WWI game I love how maneuverable the aircraft are and how quickly I can bring my guns to bear. I find that I can play quite aggressively.

I am flying Me109Ks and Fw 190s against SpitfireIXs, P51s, and P47s.

The problem that I am having in the WWII game is how to bring my guns to bear with taking more damage than I deliver. I am beginning to dislike the head-on pass. In 4 games I have been able to finish an enemy aircraft without being shot down only once.

I am looking for suggestions on my German air tactics.

Thanks,

Jim

[gully_raker]

WW2 is a whole different ballgame to WW1.
The lack of manoeuvrability & the speed of the aircraft makes it difficult to do much more than Head on & Immlemans.

However one tactic I found that works is to use a slow speed marker & let the enemy on your tail overshoot you & then there you are on HIS tail! You can try to use the smaller turns too to try to get a more side on attack.

[OldGuy59]

One of the suggestions made to me years ago, after playing a few WWS games, was never to fly single planes in a head-to-head match. Fly two planes each, so that you can use your "wingman" to either distract your opponent or gang up on one plane at a time. Pincer approaches, or concentration of fire on a single plane would both be viable tactics with two planes per side.

Note that the Germans never flew solo in WWII, always in a Rotte (2 plane formation), or a Schwarm (4 plane formation). RAF always flew in Vics (3 plane "V" formations) in the Battle of Britain, until they adopted the German "Two ship" or "Finger Four" formations.

Hope that helps?

PS: Check out formation flying threads. Plan only the lead plane's moves, until you go for that pincer move or for better concentration of fire. Oh. And stall the lead plane as you close in to keep both of your planes at the same range. Watch your Lines of Sight, too. I have been careless a few times in my attempts to close on an enemy, and either blocked my wingman's shots, or ended up at close range with one of my planes (getting shot down), with only reciprocal long range shots from my wingman. Tragic and wasteful.

[flash]

Sounds like you may need to change up your scenarios - if you have a bomber use that as bait for the fighters then attack them from the beam or the quarter. Don't just play from one side of the table to the opposite side, you or your opponent could be coming in from left or right, both or even behind.
You could even start with a plane on the table and dice to see which o'clock the opponents appear at. Guess I'm saying mix it up and try different things, it's a big sky out there.

[Doug]

One of the suggestions made to me years ago, after playing a few WWS games, was never to fly single planes in a head-to-head match. Fly two planes each, so that you can use your "wingman" to either distract your opponent or gang up on one plane at a time. Pincer approaches, or concentration of fire on a single plane would both be viable tactics with two planes per side.

Note that the Germans never flew solo in WWII, always in a Rotte (2 plane formation), or a Schwarm (4 plane formation). RAF always flew in Vics (3 plane "V" formations) in the Battle of Britain, until they adopted the German "Two ship" or "Finger Four" formations.

Hope that helps?

PS: Check out formation flying threads. Plan only the lead plane's moves, until you go for that pincer move or for better concentration of fire. Oh. And stall the lead plane as you close in to keep both of your planes at the same range. Watch your Lines of Sight, too. I have been careless a few times in my attempts to close on an enemy, and either blocked my wingman's shots, or ended up at close range with one of my planes (getting shot down), with only reciprocal long range shots from my wingman. Tragic and wasteful.

As Mike said always fly 2 planes at once. Its not that hard as in reality it is the same manouver card for both planes.

[Nightbomber]

WGS is a game, not a real dogfight simulation. Thus it is ruled somehow differently. In the game, if you get behind the enemy it is usually hard for you opponent to get out of your firing arc in 1-2 moves. This may be your chance to take on him with 1-2 bursts.

Be unpredictable from the start of the encounter. Try to fool your opponent as to your next maneuvers/flight direction and then turn rapidly against him/her. Since it's you to decide the moment of turning, there is a chance your opponent will be 1-2 cards behind time.

Have fun.

[Vindicator]

May I second the suggestions to add an additional a/c (or 2 for the RAF) to your flight? And as Mike says, just plan the leader's moves. It sure makes a positive difference in my DIY scenarios.

[Gladeius]

Thanks. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for. We have only played simple scenarios. You start on your table edge and I will start on mine. I am brainstorming scenarios with a friend. I really like Flash's 'oclock idea. I think we will play this a few times as a fighter sweep.

We were discussing a mission with an Me110 bombing with 2 fighters as escort vs. 3-4 Spitfires.

To complicate it further: An Me110 with a target to bomb escorted by two Me109Ks. From another direction, 2 Fw190s loaded with bombs attacking a different target. The defenders would have 4 allied fighters, two flights of 2 each (Spitfires and/or Mustangs).

What do you think?

I look forward to additional feedback.

Thanks, Jim

[Naharaht]

That scenario could be part of Operation Bodenplatte (1st January 1945) when German fighters tried to raid allied airfields in Belgium, the Netherlands and France.

[OldGuy59]

We have this game aid for WGF:


The 'Encounter Random Placement Diagram' is in the files, or in a campaign file, somewhere.

There may be a WWII version, but this works for both, really.

PS: Image isn't loading... Hmmm... [Edit: uploaded a .png version!]

PPS: Oh, well. It can be found here: Random Placement Chart

[flash]

... I really like Flash's 'oclock idea. I think we will play this a few times as a fighter sweep...

Good luck with that Jim, let us know how you get on.
If you want to really mess with their heads once you have resolved the o'clock to appear at roll for the o'clock the 'arriving' models are facing (and pray for a 12), adjust the models positions on the table to facilitate the action as required.

[Gotham Resident]

Thanks. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for. We have only played simple scenarios. You start on your table edge and I will start on mine. I am brainstorming scenarios with a friend. I really like Flash's 'oclock idea. I think we will play this a few times as a fighter sweep.
Thanks, Jim

If we aren't playing the "Campaign scenarios" you can find in the Campaign section - my son and I will do exactly this. Pick a plane or 3 for person A (i let him choose as he is 12). If it's fighters we dice for positions . Sometimes we dice for who can see whom - thus determining if you fly in a straight line or not. Sometimes we flip a coin for something. There are endless possibilities.

Friendly patrol is near their airfield on the long side of the table & a single plane is returning home on the opposite side. An enemy patrol was looking for that airfield starting on a short side. That allows for lots of variations.



In FACT - you can even both play together - against the "AI". This works well for enemy bombers. Ie - if you have one say a B17 - it flies "straight" - we dice to see L, C, R (left center right adjustments) for it, but we each take an enemy fighter (or 2) and work to shoot it down. (or die ourselves).

[Gladeius]

Hi,

I'm struggling to find the "Encounter Random Placement Diagram." It sounds great though. I will keep looking.

Thanks,

Jim

[OldGuy59]

We have this game aid for WGF:
Attachment 212716

The 'Encounter Random Placement Diagram' is in the files, or in a campaign file, somewhere.

There may be a WWII version, but this works for both, really.

PS: Image isn't loading... Hmmm...

PPS: Oh, well. It can be found here: Random Placement Chart

Hi,

I'm struggling to find the "Encounter Random Placement Diagram." It sounds great though. I will keep looking.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim,
The bottom line of my last post has a link to the file you are looking for!

PPS: Oh, well. It can be found here: Random Placement Chart <-- LINK!

[Gladeius]

Gotham Resident (are you the Real Batman?),

Thanks, I tried this. We rolled and put the Germans in the middle, facing 10 o'clock. Then we diced and put the Americans 2 range sticks away. They ended up facing 4 o'clock. We played and Me109K and a Fw190D vs. a P47 and a P51. We used altitude for the first time. It was awesome! We had a great dogfight, not just the 40k apocalypse battle where everyone just rushes in to a head-on pass.

I love the altitude rules. I flew the Me109 and was able to dictate the altitude of the fight, Great motor! We wounded the P51 pilot and put 16 hp on him. He dove for the deck and ran home. The P47 got the Fw190. I played cat and mouse with the P47 using altitude until I finally went for the head-on pass. I got the worst of it so I dove for the deck and ran home with 2 hit points and a damaged engine. It was great fun.

Thanks for the ideas,

Jim

[Gladeius]

Thanks Mike,

I was able to print out your encounter placement chart. I will try it for our next game.

Jim

[surfimp]

One small suggestion - for greatest satisfaction with WGS, I find having as large a playing surface as possible to be a big advantage for all involved, especially as regards using realistic air combat tactics.

One (or even two) of the standard WoG mats is really not sufficient to provide the space these fast aircraft need to maneuver appropriately, and can make the game devolve into a unsatisfying series of Immelmann / head-on passes.

In short: the bigger, the better, when it comes to play space for WGS!

[Gotham Resident]

Gotham Resident (are you the Real Batman?),

Thanks, I tried this. We rolled and put the Germans in the middle, facing 10 o'clock. Then we diced and put the Americans 2 range sticks away. They ended up facing 4 o'clock. We played and Me109K and a Fw190D vs. a P47 and a P51. We used altitude for the first time. It was awesome! We had a great dogfight, not just the 40k apocalypse battle where everyone just rushes in to a head-on pass.

I love the altitude rules. I flew the Me109 and was able to dictate the altitude of the fight, Great motor! We wounded the P51 pilot and put 16 hp on him. He dove for the deck and ran home. The P47 got the Fw190. I played cat and mouse with the P47 using altitude until I finally went for the head-on pass. I got the worst of it so I dove for the deck and ran home with 2 hit points and a damaged engine. It was great fun.

Thanks for the ideas,

Jim

Nice, glad it worked. I like to use "Zowie's Adjusted Alt Rules" for House Rules. Pretty soon you will be posting AAR's (with pictures)!

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...-Rules-for-WGS

[CappyTom]

The best part of WWII is team work. With the use of radios you can talk to your wingman and double team each enemy. I try never to do head on passes. I turn to one side or the other and come in at an angle. Also this game does great with scenarios. If you have objectives it gives the game so much more.


Thomas

[Brutal2One]

It takes a little more time to get engagements lined up with the faster planes, I would suggest picking up a couple fiat cr.42's and gloster gladiators. They Have a more familiar feel to the adjility of the WWI planes.