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Thread: Series 3 Reprint details

  1. #1

    Default Series 3 Reprint details

    The latest update for the Series 3 reprint is that they are currently in production. How far into production, I don't know.

    Update 20Dec16

    I just received the list of pilots/planes for the reprint:

    WGF117A Nieuport 17 (Baracca)
    WGF117B Nieuport 17 (Nungesser)
    WGF117C Nieuport 17 (Thaw)
    WGF118A Albatros D.III (Frommerz)
    WGF118B Albatros D.III (Gruber)
    WGF118C Albatros D.III (Von Richthofen)
    WGF205A Ufag C.I (161-37)
    WGF205B Ufag C.I (161--109)
    WGF205C Ufag C.I (161-138)
    WGF206A RAF RE.8 (30 Squadron)
    WGF206B RAF RE.8 (52 Squadron)
    WGF206C RAF RE.8 (59 Squadron)

  2. #2

  3. #3

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    Excellent! Looking forward to seeing them.

  4. #4

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    That's exciting, I wonder what the new paint schemes will be.

  5. #5

  6. #6

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    All the SE5's!!!!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben UK View Post
    All the SE5's!!!!
    No, that's Series 4 reprints.

    These will be the Albatros DIIIs and the Nieuport 17/23s

  8. #8

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    Can't wait to see the new paint schemes!

  9. #9

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    Nice! I hope Nungesser's Ni.17 and Brumowski's D.III are reprinted.

  10. #10

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    Bring on the DIII's. Need some more for repaints.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben UK View Post
    All the SE5's!!!!
    Sorry Ben they are Series 4. Series 3 are the Albatross D.III, Nieuport 17, UFAG C.I and RAF RE.8.

    I would like to see two German and one Austro-Hungarian Albatros, one each British, French and Italian N.17s, two RFC RE.8s and one AFC RE.8. All the UFAG C.Is that saw service during the Great War were Austro-Hungarian, but some were flown by the new Eastern European nations post-war, perhaps we could have one in Czech or Romanian colours?

  12. #12

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    If they are in production, someone must surely know which models are featured.........

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB401 View Post
    If they are in production, someone must surely know which models are featured.........
    I was told "we will soon announce the details" by Ares.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I was told "we will soon announce the details" by Ares.
    Looking forward to it! I only have ten Albatros D.IIIs and need many, many more.

  15. #15

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    Excellent news. Thank you, Herr Oberst.

  16. #16

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    Great news! Thanks for keeping us updated Herr Oberst!

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  18. #18

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    Yes, that is good news indeed. I hope that Ares will soon release details of which pilots are being commemorated.

  19. #19

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    I hope that they include Billy Bishop and Albert Ball for the Nieuport 17.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    I hope that they include Billy Bishop and Albert Ball for the Nieuport 17.
    I did hear that they claimed to be producing several Billy Bishop planes... but then again they could have just made that number up, you know a totally imaginary and fanciful number like say 72!

    (I mean no offence to our amazing Canadian brethren - but it was too good a chance to pass up, lol)

    Never knowingly under gunned !

  21. #21

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    But on a serious note - we have to have an Albert Ball plane - either the Nieuport or his SE.5a

    Never knowingly under gunned !

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    I did hear that they claimed to be producing several Billy Bishop planes... but then again they could have just made that number up, you know a totally imaginary and fanciful number like say 72!

    (I mean no offence to our amazing Canadian brethren - but it was too good a chance to pass up, lol)
    No offence taken.
    I just believe that whatever you may think of Bishop's ability for exaggeration, he was undeniably a skilled ace and I'd like to see both Ball and Bishop represented in the Nieuport 17.

    According to WW1 historian Peter Kilduff, German records (though notoriously patchy) can account for 21 named German pilots were likely victims of Billy Bishop.
    His research indicates that Bishop's verified record (21) vs claims (72) is not dissimilar to other Allied Aces:
    Mick Mannock - 21 verifed / 61 claimed
    Albert Ball - 17 verified / 44 claimed
    William Barker - 15 verified / 50 claimed
    Eddie Rickenbacker - <10 verifed / 26 claimed

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    According to WW1 historian Peter Kilduff, German records (though notoriously patchy) can account for 21 named German pilots were likely victims of Billy Bishop.
    His research indicates that Bishop's verified record (21) vs claims (72) is not dissimilar to other Allied Aces:
    Mick Mannock - 21 verifed / 61 claimed
    Albert Ball - 17 verified / 44 claimed
    William Barker - 15 verified / 50 claimed
    Eddie Rickenbacker - <10 verifed / 26 claimed
    Fascinating - thanks for posting that.

  24. #24

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    I did hear that they claimed to be producing several Billy Bishop planes... but then again they could have just made that number up, you know a totally imaginary and fanciful number like say 72!



    (I mean no offence to our amazing Canadian brethren - but it was too good a chance to pass up, lol)

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  25. #25

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    No offence taken.
    I just believe that whatever you may think of Bishop's ability for exaggeration, he was undeniably a skilled ace and I'd like to see both Ball and Bishop represented in the Nieuport 17.

    According to WW1 historian Peter Kilduff, German records (though notoriously patchy) can account for 21 named German pilots were likely victims of Billy Bishop.
    His research indicates that Bishop's verified record (21) vs claims (72) is not dissimilar to other Allied Aces:
    Mick Mannock - 21 verifed / 61 claimed
    Albert Ball - 17 verified / 44 claimed
    William Barker - 15 verified / 50 claimed
    Eddie Rickenbacker - <10 verifed / 26 claimed
    CJ, I am not sure from where you sourced the above statistics but they vary greatly from those given in "Above the Trenches" by Christopher Shores, Norman Franks & Russell Guest published in 1990 & which is considered the seminal work on British & Commonwealth Aces Bios & Scores.

    In their section on Mannock they list from the official records that he had a total of 41 either Destroyed or Captured. The balance were OCC's

    As far as Pilots with an extremely high % of Confirmations Vs Claims, one pilot stands out & that is James McCudden with a total of no less than 19 Captured & 28 Destroyed out of a total of 57. That means only 10 were claimed & accepted as OOC's.

    Hope this is of interest to you.

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  26. #26

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    Pardon my higorance, but what does OCC stand for ?

  27. #27

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    OOC, Pete--Out Of Control.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrylH View Post
    OOC, Pete--Out Of Control.
    Ha ha - like my Keller in the last AAR

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I was told "we will soon announce the details" by Ares.
    Good news.

    I would like some additional Albatross D.III & Ufag C.I.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  30. #30

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    Kilduff's book is more recent (2014), and is an examination of Bishop's career.
    He is quite well-published on WW1 airmen and the air war.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    Kilduff's book is more recent (2014), and is an examination of Bishop's career.
    He is quite well-published on WW1 airmen and the air war.
    Hi CJ. What does your Kilduff say about Guynemer? I read a biography and it said he underclaimed.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    Kilduff's book is more recent (2014), and is an examination of Bishop's career.
    He is quite well-published on WW1 airmen and the air war.
    Hi CJ!
    I have many of Peter Kilduff's books including the ones on Goring, Degelow, Berthold & Bishop.
    I really think Peter's expertise is in the German Pilots & he took many of BB's letters home as proof of things & was much too generous in giving him the benefit of the doubt & in matching BB's claims to German Losses.
    Russ Gannon & others on the Aerodrome Historical Forum have much better matching for other pilots against what Peter claimed for Bishop.

    Mate, not Bishop "Bashing" just trying to keep things in perspective as current Historians opinion is that Bishop did overclaim way too much not the least about the famous Aerodrome Raid.

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  33. #33

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    Hi CJ. What does your Kilduff say about Guynemer? I read a biography and it said he underclaimed.
    Hi Gary.
    Peter Killduff was only covering Bishop & made no investigations into French Pilots.
    From my own knowledge, yes Guynemer did not claim many victories he could have.
    Mannock was the same & often gave kills to new pilots after he had "softened up" the target & let the new chum deliver the Coupe de Grace.

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  34. #34

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    I'm not trying to state that Bishop didn't over-claim, the British claims system made it inevitable (not to mention the excitement of battle and most fighting taking place over German-held territory).
    Bishop was also a product of the times, where the need to have some heroes to look up to for morale was a factor in the RFC (added to various aces incentive for self-promotion).
    Bishop was what he was, though at the end of the day, whether you believe all his claims or even a reduced amount, he was was still a brave and skilled ace pilot (like many others).
    Personally, I've always preferred Collishaw.
    Ultimately, I would love to see Bishop's Nieuport (and eventually a reprinted SE5a), Ball's Nieuport, and McCudden and Mannock's SE5a's; that would cover most of the bigger Empire names.
    With the new cards coming with the planes, it would be nice to have those aces.

  35. #35


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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkmann View Post
    Nice! I hope Nungesser's Ni.17 and Brumowski's D.III are reprinted.
    They always re-print the best-selling model of the original Series, so you can be sure that Brumowski's will be re-printed.
    I don't know which one was the best selling Ni-17 though.

    For the Ni.17 I hope we get one from Esc. Lafayette and an Italian one. Fingers crossed for Ruffo Di Calabria's

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  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    I'm not trying to state that Bishop didn't over-claim, the British claims system made it inevitable (not to mention the excitement of battle and most fighting taking place over German-held territory).
    Bishop was also a product of the times, where the need to have some heroes to look up to for morale was a factor in the RFC (added to various aces incentive for self-promotion).
    Bishop was what he was, though at the end of the day, whether you believe all his claims or even a reduced amount, he was was still a brave and skilled ace pilot (like many others).
    Personally, I've always preferred Collishaw.
    Ultimately, I would love to see Bishop's Nieuport (and eventually a reprinted SE5a), Ball's Nieuport, and McCudden and Mannock's SE5a's; that would cover most of the bigger Empire names.
    With the new cards coming with the planes, it would be nice to have those aces.
    A nations war effort, morale and propaganda had a lot to gain about having an ace with a large amount of victories. If victories were exaggerated it was overlooked sometimes for the interest of national morale. With that said Bishop was a great ace even "if" some of his victories were "morale victories".

  37. #37

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    I am hoping that at least one of the new Ufag C.I's will have twin forward firing guns. The snag is that whilst there are sources confirming that some planes had the twin forward guns, I cannot find an actual picture saying that the particular plane shown had twin guns.
    Last edited by Naharaht; 12-10-2016 at 13:39.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    I am hoping that at least one of the new Ufag C.I's will have twin forward firing guns. The snag is that whilst there are sources confirming that some planes had the twin forward guns, I cannot find an actual picture saying that the particular plane shown had twin guns.
    Twin forward firing guns were tested on aircraft 161.31 in July 1918 they were not installed on production machines. This does not preclude the possibility that the UFAG machines were modified by the Fliks that flew them. A-H modified production aircraft at squadron level probably more than any other country.

  39. #39

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    Thank you for that piece of information, John. It explains the situation very well.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I was told "we will soon announce the details" by Ares.
    Been almost a month.....what's the word mate?

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    In their section on Mannock they list from the official records that he had a total of 41 either Destroyed or Captured. The balance were OCC's
    Be aware that there are inconsistencies in nearly every pilot's claims from WW1 and probably WW2 as well. In the case of Mannock sources suggest he was in the habit of taking newer pilots under his wing and nurturing them. He was also in the habit of crediting some of his kills to them to give them confidence. So his figures may represent an UNDER claim.

    In the case of most pilots, the confusion of battle and the fact that two or more may fire at the same machine at about the same time is likely to distort the figures.

    In the case of two, Bishop and Fonck, there are - allegedly - darker forces at work. Fonck was the target of some ill feeling among his comrades as he lacked the warmth of Guynemer or Nunggeser and, as a result, there were whispers that he 'robbed the dead' by claiming the kills of dead pilots. This is partly the result of his - apparently - amazing lack of ammunition expenditure. He would return from a mission having expended very few rounds. This story is believed to be the inspiration for the scene in The Blue Max where Stachel (George Peppard) claims Von Kluggerman's two kills despite his guns having jammed after firing just 40 odd rounds. No-one believes him.

    In the case of Bishop, modern computer analysis of claims and losses has revealed a glaring hole in his story plus the fact that the events of his VC cannot be verified. Oddly it was granted on his evidence alone, there are no supporting Allied eye witnesses either. This later led to a television documentary and questions being asked in the Canadian Parliament.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_...er_controversy

    I was not there, I do not know the truth. The problem is that this is meat and drink to the conspiracy theorists and we all love a good bit of controversy. You pays your money and you makes your choice. For my money I would sooner have Ball than Bishop. Bishop's SE5 has been done, no Ball machine has appeared yet. It is Ball's 'turn' if you like.

    Barry
    Last edited by 'Warspite'; 12-16-2016 at 03:58. Reason: grammar and punctuation

  42. #42

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    They always do a reprint for each series.
    I wasn't around for the Nexus planes and had no opportunity to get a Bishop SE5a, so I do hope that his is the reprint (it will allow a pilot card for Bishop as well).

    Which planes were represented with the original Nieuport 17?
    I know both Ball and Bishop flew that model and have seen markings for them (again, it would be nice to have the pilot cards).

  43. #43


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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    I wasn't around for the Nexus planes and had no opportunity to get a Bishop SE5a, so I do hope that his is the reprint
    SE5a is series 4th. So it will be next re-print, not current one.
    Cuerrent one (series 3) is Albatross DIII, Ni 17, RAF RE 8, and UFAG CI





    Quote Originally Posted by Darknight View Post
    Which planes were represented with the original Nieuport 17?

    Charles Nungesser; Gervais Lufbery & Georges Thenaul; Kibanov (Russian Ni.23)

  44. #44

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    Thank you but I already know this is the Series 3 reprint (I was mentioning the SE5a as a continuation of the above conversation).

    Bishop and Ball both flew in the Nieuport 17 model, and I see that we are apparently getting an Italian and a French pilot, so I assume Bishop won't be considered for the Nieuport 17 (though maybe Ball will be). I believe Bishop, Ball and Mannock should be represented in the Ares sets.

  45. #45


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    Sorry. My bad

  46. #46

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    I just received the list of pilots/planes for the reprint of Series 3...

    WGF117A Nieuport 17 (Baracca)
    WGF117B Nieuport 17 (Nungesser)
    WGF117C Nieuport 17 (Thaw)
    WGF118A Albatros D.III (Frommerz)
    WGF118B Albatros D.III (Gruber)
    WGF118C Albatros D.III (Von Richthofen)
    WGF205A Ufag C.I (161-37)
    WGF205B Ufag C.I (161--109)
    WGF205C Ufag C.I (161-138)
    WGF206A RAF RE.8 (30 Squadron)
    WGF206B RAF RE.8 (52 Squadron)
    WGF206C RAF RE.8 (59 Squadron)

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    This is Frommerz:

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    I will admit that I am very disappointed that there is no RFC Nieuport, Thaw is U.S.

  49. #49

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    So no Brumowski or Voss then?

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    So no Brumowski or Voss then?
    The lack of a true reprint for the D.III is interesting. In the past it has always been the best selling of the previous three... in this case, Brumowski. I'm actually in favor of them moving on to totally new paint schemes these days. However, the fact that two of their releases were already done by F Toys is less than exciting

    The Gruber mini is a nice selection though...

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