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Thread: Interest in Flight Stands with stats on them?

  1. #1

    Default Interest in Flight Stands with stats on them?

    I'm looking at redoing my personal Flight Stands with some new ones that list the aircraft and it's stats on the bases. Would anyone else be interested in some of these?

  2. #2

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    Definitely!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  3. #3

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    Downside would be where one type of stand would do for more than one aircraft, unless you intend bringing out a stand for each plane?
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  4. #4

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    I use the corsec stands, and even if I didn't, I look at the card for the stats, not the stands. I can see you having to print a bunch of these for each type of aircraft, and then how different would they be form the factory gamestands to motivate people to buy them?

  5. #5

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    Make one clear, plain stand where you can slip the airplane card into it. You'd need to deal with the peg, maybe have the first one be a molded part of the stand instead of something you stick into it.

    I'd buy 30.

  6. #6

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    I came up with this idea, so I could reuse stands, if I changed out planes, or if I wanted different custom stats for a model:

    How to Customize Aftermarket Airplane Stands

    The labels don't do what you want, Keith? It would save inventory organization and storage space, I would think.

    Latest version for my P-40 'Kittyhawk' (High Visibility stats for old eyes):

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    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I came up with this idea, so I could reuse stands, if I changed out planes, or if I wanted different custom stats for a model:

    How to Customize Aftermarket Airplane Stands

    The labels don't do what you want, Keith? It would save inventory organization and storage space, I would think.

    Latest version for my P-40 'Kittyhawk' (High Visibility stats for old eyes):

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    Hang on a minute, I can actually read this! Brilliant idea.

  8. #8

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    I wear progressives and still cannot read the bases unless I come in close and look out of the bottom of my glasses. It is a good thing I am not color blind. I would welcome easier to read flight stands like the ones Mike made. I also like John's idea of some sort of slot to slide the cards under the base. If the current base design was a bit larger with tabs to hold the cards in I think it would work.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    I wear progressives and still cannot read the bases unless I come in close and look out of the bottom of my glasses. It is a good thing I am not color blind. I would welcome easier to read flight stands like the ones Mike made. I also like John's idea of some sort of slot to slide the cards under the base. If the current base design was a bit larger with tabs to hold the cards in I think it would work.
    Scott,
    If you can't read my stand, a card under the base won't be any better than the current Ares stands.

    The label template can be modified to black on clear, if that would help, and the lettering could be adjusted slightly larger. You might need bigger labels if you need much bigger characters.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  10. #10

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear, I do like yours. Using the card might be less practical but more blingy. I also like having the climb rates!

    Where do I place my order?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    Sorry if I wasn't clear, I do like yours. Using the card might be less practical but more blingy. I also like having the climb rates!

    Where do I place my order?
    Scott,
    Do you have access to MS Word? I could post the template?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  12. #12

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    Yes, that would be great! Thank you. I found the labels on Amazon but might be able to pick them up locally at Office Depot.

  13. #13

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    File and instructions are in the moderation queue. The file is not in any way complete, and has a few suggestions on it for WGF and WGS planes. You will have to get the specific stats from cards or stands, and do your own labels up as needed.

    I remain available for PMs to assist, but knowing how MS Word works, and how tables and text-boxes work will be essential.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  14. #14

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    The other issue that comes up from a usability perspective is the beveled edge of the OEM bases. It makes the bases much harder to pick up and move. We had a devil of a time last night with nine planes in close proximity at one point. (There was one ugly pile of C damage cards from collision rules.)

    If you look in Mike's photo you see that the base on the left has a sharp vertical edge which is much easier to pick up for movement. The beveled edges are a serious design flaw in my opinion, that vertical edge would be a great upgrade all on its own.

    I like Mike's solution, but I don't know if I'm looking forward to buying 80 of them and having to find the correct one for each airplane! If they were swap-able via an insert so that one model of base serves all planes that would be ideal. Cheaper to manufacture. What would remain would be to figure out what attached to them for each plane.

    I currently store maneuver cards, plane card, base and pegs in a ziplock, one ziplock for each model. A standardized base would change that to maneuver cards, plane card, base card; which would store much more tightly and cleanly. Bases and pegs could be in a glorified bucket, grab what you need with no need to search.

    The nice part about using the card in the base is that you could have the firing arcs and most of the information just magically fall into place. Producing a second card for each plane with that information would be a lot of repeated work, and would need to be kept up as new models come out. I love Mike's visual presentation, but it would be extra work for someone or for all of us to keep up.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    The labels don't do what you want, Keith? It would save inventory organization and storage space, I would think.
    While the labels do work, there are a few drawbacks to them as well (there is no perfect basing solution ). In order to use the labels, one would still have to buy the AA generic base I've been selling for years, then make up the label for each plane type, print them out and finally align the label on the stand so that it's straight and even. That's a lot of extra work when you could just buy a stand with all that done for you. And personally, I'm not a fan of the look of the labels on the bases, it just does not look as clean to me.

    Granted, you can peel that label off and re-purpose that base, but then you have to clean the sticky off first (I'm assuming) and do all of the above again. Besides, when was the last time we got rid of a plane and no longer needed a base for it? lol

    I'm working on something like these...






  16. #16

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    That looks damn sexy! I wonder how it would look sized for a B-25... or five...

    There is one distinct advantage to the printed label version: customization. Let's say hypothetically someone had five Doolittle B-25's (one for each flight group). With a label or print on demand model one could include AAF Serial numbers, for example 40-2249 to differentiate Capt. C. Ross Greening plane/group from other planes or for a more modest application print out "Wingman" to differentiate duplicate fighters. What I am getting at is, would it be cost effective and not overly time consuming to offer the bases with one customizable line in a print on demand purchasing format?

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    That looks damn sexy! I wonder how it would look sized for a B-25... or five...

    There is one distinct advantage to the printed label version: customization. Let's say hypothetically someone had five Doolittle B-25's (one for each flight group). With a label or print on demand model one could include AAF Serial numbers, for example 40-2249 to differentiate Capt. C. Ross Greening plane/group from other planes or for a more modest application print out "Wingman" to differentiate duplicate fighters. What I am getting at is, would it be cost effective and not overly time consuming to offer the bases with one customizable line in a print on demand purchasing format?
    Bases that I already make are pretty easy to modify with custom text on them. I have a set of bases for Origins that have numbers on them (1 thru 24) so that duplicate paint jobs are not an issue on the table.

    Doing custom text via my site is a little problematic since there is no way for me to know where someone wants the text placed or how big. This type of thing would have to be handled via PM/email but can be done.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    The other issue that comes up from a usability perspective is the beveled edge of the OEM bases. It makes the bases much harder to pick up and move.

    ...

    The nice part about using the card in the base is that you could have the firing arcs and most of the information just magically fall into place. Producing a second card for each plane with that information would be a lot of repeated work, and would need to be kept up as new models come out. I love Mike's visual presentation, but it would be extra work for someone or for all of us to keep up.
    Obviously, you haven't used this product: Aerodrome Accessories - Altitude Glue

    I can say that it is very helpful for picking up aircraft on tables. Just a small drop on the bottom peg allows one to pick up the stand by that peg, without fear of the stand being left behind on the table. No need to try and pick up the stand, as you are quite correct about the sloped sides.

    I sometimes have this issue with the Litko and Aerodrome stands, too. However, not to the same extent.

    I don't see the advantage in having the card inserted into the base, if you have to substitute the card for the base in overlap situations. Just more fumbling around getting the card out of the base, and back into the base after resolving the overlap. Unless, you have a spare card per plane?

    I only use the Litko or Aerodrome Accessories bases for planes I don't acquire from Nexus or Ares. Some of my planes came from other players that replaced the original stands, and some of my planes were paper creations of my own. So, unmarked bases made it into my collection, and I needed a solution.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    While the labels do work, there are a few drawbacks to them as well (there is no perfect basing solution ). In order to use the labels, one would still have to buy the AA generic base I've been selling for years, then make up the label for each plane type, print them out and finally align the label on the stand so that it's straight and even. That's a lot of extra work when you could just buy a stand with all that done for you. And personally, I'm not a fan of the look of the labels on the bases, it just does not look as clean to me.

    Granted, you can peel that label off and re-purpose that base, but then you have to clean the sticky off first (I'm assuming) and do all of the above again. Besides, when was the last time we got rid of a plane and no longer needed a base for it? lol

    I'm working on something like these...

    The labels are not so easy, but they are almost the exact size of the stands. Once printed, I attach to the stand, and trim the very small excess with an X-acto blade. Peeling them off doesn't leave any residue that I've noticed, but then, I don't remove them once they are on in the correct position. I don't plan on throwing out any planes in the near future. Stats might change, though.

    I bought these as they indicated "Clear", but found out after that just meant "translucent" (it allows the color of the underlying paper show through, not really "clear"). I don't like the cloudy appearance, either, but haven't found really clear labels of the same size in any local office supply store. I have found XEROX window decal sheets that are removable, that might be better, but they come in 8.5x11 sheets of material, not individual labels. Also, Avery Clear Decals (03276) are removable, but again, full 8.5x11 sheets. So, they have to be cut to size, placed, and trimmed, as Keith suggests above. Wwwaaayyy too fiddly, and I haven't attempted it.

    But, you could print up individual labels for specific planes on a single label and apply it to the new stands?
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    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  20. #20

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    I love where this is going! Keith's bases look wonderful! Mike, your stickers are just what I am looking for, with literally hundreds of minis now I would be willing to pay for sticker sets for each of the releases and my long list of non-official planes, maybe in groups of say 3-4 of each model on a strip so I could fly them as teams and add them to my plex bases I make. When I one day remortgage my house I will buy a complete set of Keith's with altitude dials-which I love too - but the price will be over $500 for my collection . . . : ( Keep up the great designs and let me know what you decide to produce, both of you! Thanks!

  21. #21

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    At the moment I have a modest collection of Shapeways minis, 30+ fighters, but I only have half a dozen AA bases, as I never fly that many at once.
    I have a few more of the larger bases as they come with specific firing arcs, particularly WGS. Having those upgraded with stats would be good.
    Lots of good ideas flying around again though, what this forum is truly great for.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Obviously, you haven't used this product: Aerodrome Accessories - Altitude Glue
    My Aunt Jemima came to the rescue on this. She's quite a woman.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I don't see the advantage in having the card inserted into the base, if you have to substitute the card for the base in overlap situations. Just more fumbling around getting the card out of the base, and back into the base after resolving the overlap. Unless, you have a spare card per plane?
    Just pull the model and leave the base.

    Another fully elaborated base doesn't bring a lot of value to me personally. It's at best a minor upgrade to what I already have. If you can find a way to have a standard base that works with the existing cards, or a set of clings, or a writable surface a la GMT's Talon, I'm interested. It just doesn't make sense for me to purchase 80 new bases unless they're bringing a significant amount of additional convenience to the game. Adding the climb rate doesn't make that big a difference to me, and I play altitude rules. A lot of your potential customers don't.

    I might consider buying blanks and just writing on them with dry-erase pens. I can imagine that working. I could buy a couple and take them for a test drive.

    I will admit that the printing on the OEM WWII bases is very poorly sized and colored. The kids tease me for wearing two pairs of reading glasses when I'm setting up to play.
    Last edited by Sagrilarus; 10-26-2016 at 06:22.

  23. #23

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    The cards that come with the plane have the stats on them! But what you have are cool.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike George View Post
    The cards that come with the plane have the stats on them! But what you have are cool.
    Except the max altitude and climb rates which are not even in the rule book for all the planes. At Origins we always have to go over what the max and climb rates are in the Invitational game. With them on the bases, everyone can easily see this info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    It just doesn't make sense for me to purchase 80 new bases unless they're bringing a significant amount of additional convenience to the game. Adding the climb rate doesn't make that big a difference to me, and I play altitude rules. A lot of your potential customers don't.
    No, it would not make a ton of sense to replace bases you already own, but going forward or for newer players, the extra info should be a bonus.

  25. #25

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    If you use Kickstarter as a pre-order system you can adjust you price per base depending on volume. For example, a stretch goal could be at $5,000 backers get a free base for every four ordered. I do not know real numbers, my suggestion is more conceptual. Also, how much of the production cost percentage is in the 3d dials?

  26. #26

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    I have to say - I really like both Mike's card design (w/ the letters printed) as well as Oberst's dials.

    Not having a viable program for making art designs, I used word to make my own cards. I copy & pasted images of planes, then played around with the sizes (based on measurements) until I got it right. For the bottom part I used a label format, and made my own. I then printed a whole bunch of each and used scissors to make my own cards. I used the letters for damage "AAA & AB". It does make it easier to read.

    For bases I went to Home Depot and bought some plexiglass and my father-in-law cut it into the appropriate sizes for extra bases for my Merit Devastators and other models. I had bought some blank litko ones (a pack of 10 for fighters) but needed some for med & large sized planes. I didn't know what to do for arcs & the like, or labels.

    I do like the ideas you both have and see both being very useful. I agree that peeling off items and reapplying could be more time consuming, but depending on storage, looking for different bases could be frustrating.

    Oberst - if you can print to order, i see many people ordering, especially folks that don't have access to a printer and/or don't want to do it themselves.

  27. #27

    Default Custom bases

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    While the labels do work, there are a few drawbacks to them as well (there is no perfect basing solution ). In order to use the labels, one would still have to buy the AA generic base I've been selling for years, then make up the label for each plane type, print them out and finally align the label on the stand so that it's straight and even. That's a lot of extra work when you could just buy a stand with all that done for you. And personally, I'm not a fan of the look of the labels on the bases, it just does not look as clean to me.

    Granted, you can peel that label off and re-purpose that base, but then you have to clean the sticky off first (I'm assuming) and do all of the above again. Besides, when was the last time we got rid of a plane and no longer needed a base for it? lol

    I'm working on something like these...





    Hi Keith
    Are you proposing to do these for just standard WoG aircraft or will non standard stats be on your list?

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    ...

    ... Also, Avery Clear Decals (03276) are removable, but again, full 8.5x11 sheets. So, they have to be cut to size, placed, and trimmed, as Keith suggests above. Wwwaaayyy too fiddly, and I haven't attempted it.

    ...
    Finally had the motivation to attempt the Clear Decals, and the need for a big piece of material. Link: Avery 03276 - Window Decals 8.5x11 (6 sheets)

    NOTE: It is called 'decal', but it is self-adhesive, not needing water to apply. It is more label material, than what our Forum members would traditionally consider 'decals'.

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    More pictures: Tripods & Triplanes - An Invasion from Mars

    The stands were hand-cut pieces of scrap Plexiglas, and I attempted to get the decals onto the plastic as straight as possible. Cleaning the plastic, and keeping fingers off the adhesive side of the decals is not just a good idea, BTW.
    How-To Notes: How to Customize Aftermarket Airplane Stands

    This would work very well for the above Aerodrome stands, and is perfectly clear when done properly. Again, as Keith suggests, very fiddly, and you need to have quite a few plane stands to do for a single sheet. Not as convenient as the individual labels, which you can arrange to print individually, and as needed, if you print from the bottom of the label sheet as you go.

    I don't recommend this 'decal' material for temporary, or swap-as-needed, purposes, though. The adhesive is pretty grippy, and wouldn't take too many removals before being translucent or ruined. It worked for this job, though.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    While the labels do work, there are a few drawbacks to them as well (there is no perfect basing solution ). In order to use the labels, one would still have to buy the AA generic base I've been selling for years, then make up the label for each plane type, print them out and finally align the label on the stand so that it's straight and even. That's a lot of extra work when you could just buy a stand with all that done for you. And personally, I'm not a fan of the look of the labels on the bases, it just does not look as clean to me.

    Granted, you can peel that label off and re-purpose that base, but then you have to clean the sticky off first (I'm assuming) and do all of the above again. Besides, when was the last time we got rid of a plane and no longer needed a base for it? lol

    I'm working on something like these...





    I like the look of these, however I have just too many AA bases now to replace them all, pity

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel View Post
    Hi Keith
    Are you proposing to do these for just standard WoG aircraft or will non standard stats be on your list?
    Both, see my post after this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Resident View Post
    I agree that peeling off items and reapplying could be more time consuming, but depending on storage, looking for different bases could be frustrating.

    Oberst - if you can print to order, i see many people ordering, especially folks that don't have access to a printer and/or don't want to do it themselves.
    I personally keep my bases (and cards) with the matching mini... never have to search for anything. Just grab and go. This also makes it super easy to see if anything is missing (and if you are using my Hangar Trays with contrasting bottom color, it is even easier to see if something is missing).

  31. #31

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    I'm currently working with someone to build a dynamic webpage where you can design you own flight stands. This would allow someone to have a laser cut and etched flight stand made for whatever custom/unofficial plane they wanted. You will basically select the base size (Scout, Bomber, Large Bomber), then enter in the firing arc in degrees, the location of that arc as X and Y coordinates, and finally the facing (0-360°) of that arc. The webpage will render a preview real time as you edit those parameters. Once you are happy with how your base looks, you will export it to your local computer and email me that file and place an order for it on the AA site. Once I receive the order and the file, I can make the base on the laser and ship it out to you.



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