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Thread: Weekend reading from WH Smiths

  1. #1

    Default Weekend reading from WH Smiths

    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  2. #2

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    "JAPAN F***S UP SPECTACULARLY" [pics of the unbombed infrastructure of PH]

  3. #3

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    So not "USA gets it's arse handed to it on a plate" then?
    Last edited by Guntruck; 10-23-2016 at 00:53.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  4. #4

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    settles down with popcorn.....

  5. #5

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    I will pick one of these up this coming week.
    Thanks for the heads up Steve.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    So not "USA gets it's arse handed to it on a plate" then?
    Of course not -- the Japanese failed miserably at Pearl: No carriers sunk; only two large ships taken out permanently (and both of those were pre-WW1 designs); none of the base facilities so much as scratched; and rather than tucking tail and running, the US fought back. By every objective standard, save "number of deaths", the Japanese lost, failing to accomplish *any* of the mission objectives.

    Someday I need to write the alt-history where Pearl harbor is recognized at the time for the epic failure it was, which means more attention is paid to the one US commander who *did* lose to the Japanese... "Dugout Doug" MacArthur; seeing him get "Admiral Bynged" would have done the war effort a power of good.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Of course not -- the Japanese failed miserably at Pearl: No carriers sunk; only two large ships taken out permanently (and both of those were pre-WW1 designs); none of the base facilities so much as scratched; and rather than tucking tail and running, the US fought back. By every objective standard, save "number of deaths", the Japanese lost, failing to accomplish *any* of the mission objectives.

    Someday I need to write the alt-history where Pearl harbor is recognized at the time for the epic failure it was, which means more attention is paid to the one US commander who *did* lose to the Japanese... "Dugout Doug" MacArthur; seeing him get "Admiral Bynged" would have done the war effort a power of good.
    Not that I've researched this event extensively, but I've heard that the higher-ups knew it was coming. The government used the attack to motivate the population to go to war that most of the business side of the US was not interested in prosecuting. For most of the war, if not the history written afterwards, the truth was a big casualty at Pearl Harbor.

    I have recently read a book that covered the whole story of the Battle of Britain, which punched pretty big holes in the propaganda myths of that battle. I believe a similar treatment of the Attack on Pearl Harbor would disspell the propaganda illusions created by the US government of the time, too.

    Based on some superficial reading, Yamamoto was dismayed at the after-Action Reports from the pilots, and that no carriers were hit during the attack. He knew the purpose of the attack was not achieved, the day of the attack.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Not that I've researched this event extensively, but I've heard that the higher-ups knew it was coming. The government used the attack to motivate the population to go to war that most of the business side of the US was not interested in prosecuting. For most of the war, if not the history written afterwards, the truth was a big casualty at Pearl Harbor.
    *Some* people in the US command -- mainly those who'd actually bothered to study Japan and its military, rather than dismissing them as "rice-eating bicycle mechanics" -- figured out the Japanese would lead off with a surprise attack; it's what they'd done every time previously. However, the US people who understood Japan had the same problem as the Japanese military types who understood what attacking the USA meant: None of them were in pisitions powerful enough to slow, much less stop, the stupid decision being made.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I have recently read a book that covered the whole story of the Battle of Britain, which punched pretty big holes in the propaganda myths of that battle. I believe a similar treatment of the Attack on Pearl Harbor would disspell the propaganda illusions created by the US government of the time, too.
    Most of the *actual* history of PH is Propaganda -- if one looks at what the IJNAF *actually* accomplished, even without the benefit of hindsight[1], it is painfully obvious the IJN could not have done a worse job of "defeating" the USN if they'd *tried*. Hell, the US Army lost more troops at Kasserine than the Navy did at PH; and what happened in the Philippines knocks PH into a cocked hat.

    [1: For ex.: Everyone comments on the "loss" of the BBs -- when Pearl Harbor, and Taranto before it, had just illustrated in the most-graphic terms that the BB was no longer the primary playing piece on the map.]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Based on some superficial reading, Yamamoto was dismayed at the after-Action Reports from the pilots, and that no carriers were hit during the attack. He knew the purpose of the attack was not achieved, the day of the attack.
    Yup -- and if he'd been paying closer attention, he'd have realized the *base* was still more-or-less intact, and usable. Blowing the fuel storage and wrecking the repair docks means two things:

    1) Functional ships have to be based and repaired out of western CONUS, some additional 2,000 miles from the battlefields; adding days, if not weeks, to transit times.
    2) *NON*-functional ships -- like the BBs grounded at PH -- cannot be repaired *at all* until the repair facilities are repaired; or, at best, they can only be pumped out and patched before making a *very* long, *very* slow transit back to CONUS.

    This was not done; and the main reason the BBs weren't back on-line sooner was because they didn't need to be (QED). (For an example of the importance of PH's repair facilities not being hit, consider _Yorktown_ at Midway; had _Y_ been required to go all the way back to CONUS after Coral Sea, chances are it would not have been available for Midway....)



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