Piper L-4 Grasshopper?

[OldGuy59]

So, someone wants a card for this plane (Link: Thread Hi-jack Attempt), but which one? The early version? The middle or late version? The Bazooka-armed, ground attack version?

I can't find stats for this plane, either. So, anyone want to jump in with suggestions for which model, and then perhaps a discussion on the stats?

Perhaps units and pilots could be determined. Lt. Col. Charles Carpenter, aka Bazooka Charlie (Wikipedia- Lt-Col Charles Carpenter), flying "Rosie the Rocketeer" for the 1st Bombardment Division.

And, finally, a card might show up out of the ether.

[clipper1801]

So, someone wants a card for this plane (Link: Thread Hi-jack Attempt), but which one? The early version? The middle or late version? The Bazooka-armed, ground attack version?

I can't find stats for this plane, either. So, anyone want to jump in with suggestions for which model, and then perhaps a discussion on the stats?

Perhaps units and pilots could be determined. Lt. Col. Charles Carpenter, aka Bazooka Charlie (Wikipedia- Lt-Col Charles Carpenter), flying "Rosie the Rocketeer" for the 1st Bombardment Division.

And, finally, a card might show up out of the ether.

Wrong time of the year for the ether bunnie to arrive . . . I have an L-4 in my Flames of War collection, I can dig up a lot in it if you are serious about it, I am not sure anyone makes one, yet . . . .

[csadn]

Hardly a "Hijacking" -- if one is going to have German spotters, one necessarily needs the Allied spotters as well.

Esp. as there's this little bit of history between the L-4 and the Storch (make for a slightly outre duel pack, but still...):

http://www.5ad.org/units/Duane%20Francies.htm :

At that point, Francies was flying an unarmed Piper L-4 called Miss Me!?

"I named my plane Miss Me!? because I wanted the Germans to do that, the reason for the exclamation point," Francies explained. "But I also wanted someone back home to 'miss me,' so there was the question mark."

On April 11 Francies and his observer, Lieutenant William Martin, took part in Francies' 142nd mission and one of the most unusual aerial actions of the war. The 71st Battalion was now the closest American force to Berlin-48 miles. Out on an observation mission some 100 miles west of the capital city, Francies noticed a German motorcycle, with the customary sidecar, speeding along a road near some of the 5th Armored tanks. When he and Martin went in to take a closer look at the motorcycle, they also noticed a German Fieseler Fi-156 Storch artillery spotting plane about 700 feet above the trees.

Francies later wrote: "The German Storch, with an inverted 8 Argus engine, also a fabric job and faster and larger than the Miss Me!?, spotted us and we radioed, 'We are about to give combat.' But we had the advantage of altitude and dove, blasting away with our Colt .45s, trying to force the German plane into the fire of waiting tanks of the 5th.

Instead, the German began circling."

Firing out the side doors with their Colts, the American crewmen emptied their guns into the enemy’s windshield, fuel tanks and right wing. Francies had to hold the stick between his knees while reloading. He late recalled, "The two planes were so close I could see the Germans'eyeballs, as big as eggs, as we peppered them."

After the Storch pilot made a low turn, the plane's right wing hit the ground, and the plane cartwheeled and came to rest in a pasture. Setting down nearby, the Americans ran to the downed plane.

The German pilot dived behind a huge pile of sugar beets to hide from them, but the observer, who had been hit in the foot, fell to the ground. When Francies removed the observer's boot, a .45 slug fell out.

Then Martm fired warning shots that brought the pilot to his feet, hands raised. Francies confiscated the pilot's wings and Luftwaffe shoulder insignia, as well as a Nazi battle flag.

http://www.burtmader.com/images/Duel...0the%20Sun.jpg

[OldGuy59]

Hardly a "Hijacking" -- if one is going to have German spotters, one necessarily needs the Allied spotters as well.

Esp. as there's this little bit of history between the L-4 and the Storch (make for a slightly outre duel pack, but still...):

http://www.5ad.org/units/Duane%20Francies.htm :

At that point, Francies was flying an unarmed Piper L-4 called Miss Me!?

"I named my plane Miss Me!? because I wanted the Germans to do that, the reason for the exclamation point," Francies explained. "But I also wanted someone back home to 'miss me,' so there was the question mark."

On April 11 Francies and his observer, Lieutenant William Martin, took part in Francies' 142nd mission and one of the most unusual aerial actions of the war. The 71st Battalion was now the closest American force to Berlin-48 miles. Out on an observation mission some 100 miles west of the capital city, Francies noticed a German motorcycle, with the customary sidecar, speeding along a road near some of the 5th Armored tanks. When he and Martin went in to take a closer look at the motorcycle, they also noticed a German Fieseler Fi-156 Storch artillery spotting plane about 700 feet above the trees.

Francies later wrote: "The German Storch, with an inverted 8 Argus engine, also a fabric job and faster and larger than the Miss Me!?, spotted us and we radioed, 'We are about to give combat.' But we had the advantage of altitude and dove, blasting away with our Colt .45s, trying to force the German plane into the fire of waiting tanks of the 5th.

Instead, the German began circling."

Firing out the side doors with their Colts, the American crewmen emptied their guns into the enemy’s windshield, fuel tanks and right wing. Francies had to hold the stick between his knees while reloading. He late recalled, "The two planes were so close I could see the Germans'eyeballs, as big as eggs, as we peppered them."

After the Storch pilot made a low turn, the plane's right wing hit the ground, and the plane cartwheeled and came to rest in a pasture. Setting down nearby, the Americans ran to the downed plane.

The German pilot dived behind a huge pile of sugar beets to hide from them, but the observer, who had been hit in the foot, fell to the ground. When Francies removed the observer's boot, a .45 slug fell out.

Then Martm fired warning shots that brought the pilot to his feet, hands raised. Francies confiscated the pilot's wings and Luftwaffe shoulder insignia, as well as a Nazi battle flag.

http://www.burtmader.com/images/Duel...0the%20Sun.jpg

Chris,
No, you didn't hi-jack the thread. But, if you wanted stats and a card for the plane, you could have just started a thread, like Rob did.

Anyway, the problem with the L-4 is that there isn't anything on our Forum for it at all, not even a Max Headroom card (as there was for the Storch). So, we'll have to start from scratch.

I thought you had a plane all ready to go. I was mistaken about that, too?

[csadn]

I thought you had a plane all ready to go. I was mistaken about that, too?

Honestly: No, I don't have a card; but that's because I'm not equipped to make one.

That said, I *can* make some estimates as to what a O-59|L-4 (and some of the other lighter L-types) card would look like.

HP: Not exactly brilliant -- ~10. The Piper Cub is small, and light (only 1,220 lbs. loaded -- within the bounds of the Light Sport Aviation designation); this is why it's short-field performance is comparable to the Storch, while using 1/3 the horsepower.

Movement Deck: Again, not brilliant -- the L-4 cruises at 75 MPH, and tops out at 85. So we're looking at one of the "ultra-slow" movement decks, but with high maneuverability.

Famous Units To Model: This is the cruncher -- aside from "Miss Me", there aren't all that many Famous L-4s (or indeed any L-types) out there. Either one ends up with three essentially-indistinguishable OD L-4s, or one has to do freak-show stuff like this: http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraf...-Rocketeer.jpg (gee, he flew for Patton -- go fig :) ), or maybe even a Civil Air Patrol paint scheme (which is easily converted to a "civvie" job, as the Cub's standard color was yellow).

[clipper1801]

So you two got me going, check out half way down the page of this site:

http://www.robertnovell.com/pipers-l...ber-26-2014-3/

I will have to pour a few of these after all! I must have "Rosie the Rocketeer" an L-4 equipped with rockets! Check it out, Major Charles "Bazooka Charlie" Carpenter, my kind of guy!

Then there is a cool Marine version in dark blue, and a Navy tricolor blue Airship Hack version . . . gotta love this fun!

[OldGuy59]

Piper L-4H Grasshopper

[csadn]

Then there is a cool Marine version in dark blue, and a Navy tricolor blue Airship Hack version . . . gotta love this fun!

The Marine and Navy ones were non-combat-only, tho', so far as I can tell. (IMSMC: The ones used at Sicily were Army.)

I think a Brodie-equipped L-4 may be pushing matters, as well. :) ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9vAWEgw6cc ; tho' the unit shown is a Stinson L-5.)

So, for minis: We have "Miss Me", and "Rosie The Rocketeer"; just need one more.... ;)

[clipper1801]

Piper L-4H Grasshopper

Loving it! I found a 1/220" scale Piper I can work into a viable mini on Shapeways! Now if you were so kind, I am going to do the Navy tricolor blue, the Rosie Rocketeer, and the Marine blue ships, and since they come in 4's I will do one in dull silver or camo for D-Day - not a big fan of the stripes since they only were used late war . . . I do not need to have full specs on the card since I will likely never get to play it in a game, just so fun for fun! Thanks and no hurry at all . . .

[OldGuy59]

One of four L-4A used from CV-4 USS Ranger for support of US troops landing in North Africa during Operation Torch on 8th November 1942. It was flown by Lt. William Butler (pilot) and Capt. Brenton Devol (observer). The aircraft wore standard US Army camouflage: upper surfaces - Olive Drab, lower surfaces - Neutral Grey. The Yellow border around the main markings is the fast identification sign for aircraft participated in Operation Torch. The wings markings painted on the upper side of the left wing and underside of the right wing.

Link: WINGS PALETTE - L-4s

This Piper NE-1 (BuNo 26358) was a hack assigned to Airship Squadron Thirty Two (ZP-32) at Naval Air Station (NAS) Moffett Field, California in 1944. The Grasshopper is camouflaged in the US Navy's three-tone scheme of Semi-Gloss Sea Blue (ANA-606; FS25042), Intermediate Blue (ANA-608; FS35164), and Nonspecular Insignia White (ANA-601; FS37880).


OY-1 from VMO-5 Iwo Jima

[OldGuy59]

Loving it! I found a 1/220" scale Piper I can work into a viable mini on Shapeways! Now if you were so kind, I am going to do the Navy tricolor blue, the Rosie Rocketeer, and the Marine blue ships, and since they come in 4's I will do one in dull silver or camo for D-Day - not a big fan of the stripes since they only were used late war . . . I do not need to have full specs on the card since I will likely never get to play it in a game, just so fun for fun! Thanks and no hurry at all . . .

Dave,
Sorry to say, but 'Rosie the Rocketeer' was used during the breakout from the beaches after D-Day, so the stripes are accurate for when she was flying and doing the tank-busting thing.

[clipper1801]

Thanks! No problemski I can live with that. Were they real rockets or quick rigged bazookas?

[OldGuy59]

Thanks! No problemski I can live with that. Were they real rockets or quick rigged bazookas?

My understanding is that he bolted standard bazookas to his plane. Absolutely crazy, but someone tried it, and Lt-Col Charles Carpenter went to town with it (Link: Wikipedia - Charles Carpenter (lieutenant-colonel)

[OldGuy59]

Did we get a maneuver deck sorted out for this plane?

[clipper1801]

Not that I know of, its kind of a odd plane, doubt it would get many takers : ) I only know of one and he is certified . . .

[csadn]

Did we get a maneuver deck sorted out for this plane?

Nope -- need to figure out what deck best simulates a top speed of 85 MPH.

[Jager]

Did we get a maneuver deck sorted out for this plane?

Best one I can get is the J deck, arrow length only. It could probably use an added 60 degree turn too.
The Fletcher scorch is harder at 110Mph, so there's not really a deck usable for it
Karl

[fox]

Hello
Any grasshoper card somewhere?
Would love to have one for my CBI campaign
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...gers-campaign-

[OldGuy59]

Best one I can get is the J deck, arrow length only. It could probably use an added 60 degree turn too.
The Fletcher scorch is harder at 110Mph, so there's not really a deck usable for it
Karl

I might tackle this as a slow deck project. 2.95cm for fast, and 1.85cm for slow?

What would you want for the Scorch, should that be done by someone with idle hands?

[OldGuy59]

Hello
Any grasshoper card somewhere?
Would love to have one for my CBI campaign
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...gers-campaign-

Without stats, I haven't gone any further than to do up plane color schemes. There might be a card somewhere...

PS: I must have done up one for the Scorch, but Karl obviously wants the maneuver deck reconsidered: Fieseler Storch Help - Post #9

[OldGuy59]

Something like this for the Js 60 degree turn?



PS: Should this be called the ZJ+ deck, as it follows Zoe's maneuver rules?

[fox]

Thank's
I will use the card of the Scorch without guns.

[clipper1801]

Poured Fiesler Storch's with and with out guns as I recall in 2015 . .

https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...fiesler+storch

[Jager]

For the L-4, the arrow length should probably be 3.0cm and 2.5cm. Hits would be by the rules 13, but due to the very light construction, I would say 10. Ceiling 4 and climb 10!
For the Storch, arrow length should be 4.0cm and 3.2cm. Hits again would be 13, but I'll say 11. Ceiling 5 and climb 8. Oh, and an A/A rear gun. Sometimes.

I'm less certain about a 60 degree turn with the L-4, due to the very low P/W ratio. I really don't know how acrobatic they are. Their wing loading is very low though.


Karl