Ares Games
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Official Dornier 24 Painting Thread

  1. #1

    Default Official Dornier 24 Painting Thread

    Here's my Dornier 24K of the MLD (Netherlands Naval Aviation Service) on patrol off the coast of Borneo, mid December 1941. I bought in on Ebay from Cal Faber; while it wasn't listed in the item description, I'm quite sure it's an HBM model, especially since the kit came with two wings whose engine cowlings were distinctly different, and the HBM Do-24 is listed as a K/T. Construction was straightforward and fairly easy, although getting the wing properly aligned was a chore. Vallejo paints and I-94 Enterprises decals were used, as were AA propeller discs. Still wouldn't mind seeing one of our Shapeways designers making this airplane, as HBM models aren't easy to come by and other forum members (especially in the Dutch Wing) have expressed interest. It's an attractive aircraft, quite possibly one of the finest flying boats ever built, and it was used by both Allied and Axis forces during the Second World War.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0299.JPG 
Views:	175 
Size:	136.3 KB 
ID:	203044
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0300.JPG 
Views:	175 
Size:	184.9 KB 
ID:	203045
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0305.JPG 
Views:	175 
Size:	150.3 KB 
ID:	203047
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0302.JPG 
Views:	175 
Size:	212.2 KB 
ID:	203046
    Last edited by flash; 07-28-2016 at 00:09. Reason: Prefix & title

  2. #2

    Default

    Nice job Darryl. Definitely an HBM model. I've got 2 on the go at the moment as low priority paintjobs, one as a standard Luftwaffe aircraft and one as a Seenotstaffel aircraft.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  3. #3

    Default

    Nice one Darryl

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

    Default

    Thank you, sirs! I look forward to seeing Steve's German Do-24s, and am definitely hoping that either a Shapeways version appears or Ron Crawford makes his HBM version available to Armaments in Miniature, because I'd like to see other takes on this airplane.

  5. #5

    Default

    Always good to see something a bit different Darryl.
    Thanks for posting.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  6. #6

    Default

    Looks interesting.

    What scale it is?
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  7. #7

    Default

    God's own scale Sven - 1/200th
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  8. #8

    Default

    Here is a Shapeways 1/200 Do-24. The model is hollow which didn’t leave much meat to grind a small spot to glue the ball.

    The decals are Miscellaneous Miniatures special request.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	13C0BED3-33B1-46C9-A959-10045F2A8B58.jpg 
Views:	146 
Size:	51.5 KB 
ID:	288543

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	B2A9B73B-00D9-4EAE-A774-22E6D257D15E.jpg 
Views:	147 
Size:	65.0 KB 
ID:	288544

    This rather well researched model was my inspiration for this one. I could find no period color photos, so the shade of blue-grey is based on what I could find to read.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	9D65DCEC-2A72-479E-B0E5-C7DBCEF83A2D.jpg 
Views:	147 
Size:	169.8 KB 
ID:	288545

    Working on the card which is well underway!

  9. #9

    Default

    rep guns jammed! nice job on a seldom seen mini!

  10. #10

    Default

    Here is the first draft of the plane. I would really like to hear suggestions for the statistics for this plane. I will have the card ready soon. If there are no official stats, I'll probably compare it to a Catalina, and adjust based on speed, ceiling and other factors I can find.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Do-24 Plane X-37.png 
Views:	128 
Size:	93.7 KB 
ID:	288575

    The one line for this was very difficult. It took a lot of work to make something out of the very poor quality images I could find. I am continuing to refine my shadows and glare.

    Phillip, thank you for the compliment!

  11. #11

    Default

    Now for my rough draft of the card.

    Gun #1 is a 7,92 MG15 (A/A)
    Gun #2 is a 20mm HS 404 (B/B)
    - It appears that Gun #2 can fire to the rear only when at higher targets due to the tail getting in the way.
    Gun #3 is a 7,92 MG15 (A/A)
    - I can't tell if Gun #3 can fire forward at higher targets. I could find no data indicating how much the turrets could turn.

    As far as damage, I have no idea how the committee calculates it. The plane doe not appear as rugged as the PBY 5A, but does have the third engine. I guesses at 45 Hitpoints pending feedback from someone that actually knows what they are talking about!

    For speed, it has a max speed within a few MPH of the Catalina. The DO-24 could go much higher, and had a much higher cruising speed. Again, like damage, I really don't know how to select a deck, so I just made it the same as the PBY pending better input from knowledgeable people.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Card Do-24 X-37.png 
Views:	116 
Size:	557.9 KB 
ID:	288818

    See below for revisions!
    Last edited by Dak21; 06-20-2020 at 19:16.

  12. #12

    Default

    Nice card Dave.

    I would suggest the firing arc at level be cut into two for #2 instead of the continuous one. That tail section rises up quite a bit. I would think the starboard would be 2:30 to 4:30, the port 7:30 - 9:30. At a higher target then it would have the full rear arc.

  13. #13

    Default

    Let me look into this; might not be until Sunday, my next day off.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  14. #14

    Default

    Thank you both! I’ll redo the card, including the suggestion on gun #2 arcs when I hear back.

    One thing I was still unsure of is if the tail gun can turn all the way around and shoot at forward targets. It sits at almost the same height as the wings.

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts on stats Karl. Thank you for checking it out.

  15. #15

    Default

    I haven't seen anything yet of the tail gun but will keep looking too.

  16. #16

    Default

    OK, Here's what I came up with:
    Do.24 stats
    Bomber base
    Deck: T(Zb) {Any maneuver deck with the modifier (Z) uses Zoe Brain’s system of moving just the length of the arrow on the card. These are for very slow planes, and may be further modified. Any that have the modifier (Zb) are bombers; no reversals, 45 degree turns, 60 degree turns or fast or extreme side slips.}
    Hits: 28
    Ceiling: 9
    Climb: 7
    Guns: FG: A/A, 10 O'clock to 2 O'Clock, level to high.
    Dorsal turret: C/A, 3-5 O'clock and 7-9 O'clock, level to high
    plus maybe 5-7 O'clock high only.
    Tail gun: A/A, 4-8 O'Clock, Low to high.
    OK, a bit on the gun arcs. I get a lot of my arc data from planes done for the Fighting Wings ADCs. The game designer is a military and civil pilot, as are contributors, and they have time and access to
    data I don't. I also tend to make the arcs more conservative. Note that the rear arc on official 2-seaters appears to be less than they could be. This from our game's designer..
    OK, the Do.24: of all the pictures I found on line, including 3-view drawings, only one showed a gun barrel (the tail turret). These turrets look fairly low to me, so how high the guns could be elevated
    is a open question. I would personally not allow the dorsal turret to shoot over the tail (5-7 O'clock).
    And while the front gun might be able to shoot the arc you drew, how close do you want a crewman, in a bouncy maneuvering plane, to shoot to your props? Or wing?
    I could see going to 9-3 O'clock on the front gun, but no more.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  17. #17

    Default

    Just spotted your posts Dave.

    Very original work there and a great aircraft card too.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #18

    Default

    well now, well well,
    I've had this Do24 for at least three years, still not painted ... as I was afraid to mess it up and it being a "fairly" expensive model
    It's a shapeways FUD item, I forgot who modelled/printed it, but I'm quite sure it was an aerodrome member ...good to see somebody doing the plane & card.
    Might even get me brave enough to start on mine ...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200620_154414.jpg 
Views:	81 
Size:	42.8 KB 
ID:	289066
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200620_154510.jpg 
Views:	81 
Size:	34.0 KB 
ID:	289065
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200620_154522.jpg 
Views:	78 
Size:	39.7 KB 
ID:	289064
    Now that's a shame, the first one is OK, the other two should be turned 90 degrees, no idea how to change that ...
    I'll check my files for colour plates of one of the X-boats as they were called in the MLD ...
    cheers,
    Guus
    Last edited by Aardvark1430; 06-21-2020 at 12:41.
    "zet 'm op ... witte muizen !" (strijdkreet van 1e JaVa, Luchtvaart Afdeling, Nederland 1940)
    "let's go get them ... white mice !" (battlecry of the 1st Fighter Group, Army Air Force, Netherlands 1940)

  19. #19

    Default

    OK, found some pictures from the one in the Dutch Military Museum ...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Do24-1.JPG 
Views:	76 
Size:	191.5 KB 
ID:	289068
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Do24KMLD.jpg 
Views:	76 
Size:	80.2 KB 
ID:	289069
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Do24K.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	9.1 KB 
ID:	289070
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	do24Knmm.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	278.7 KB 
ID:	289071
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Do24Knmm2.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	104.0 KB 
ID:	289072


    alas, they look to be too blue ... might be just the light ? The fourth picture is the most likely rendering of the original color, so ...
    I'll be using the following colors:
    uppersides:
    Vallejo 70.816 (Luftwaffe Uniform)
    undersides:
    Vallejo 70.923 (White Gray)

    The museum plane has the national insignia (Dutch Flag instead of Orange triangles) that were introduced in mid february 1942 (but by no means used on all planes still fighting in the Dutch East Indies).

    cheers,
    Guus

    edit:
    looking at the pictures I would say the front turret gun could have an elevation of 60 degrees, same goes to the dorsal one (I presume).

    edit 2:
    I'll be using the same colors for my PBY-5/5A Catalina's of the MLD (https://youtu.be/RK-lRB2iWrY)

    edit 3:
    the X-boats (Do-24K's) were repainted near the end of 1941 to match the colors of the newly delivered Consolidated PBY5 / 5A Catalina's
    Last edited by Aardvark1430; 06-20-2020 at 08:09.
    "zet 'm op ... witte muizen !" (strijdkreet van 1e JaVa, Luchtvaart Afdeling, Nederland 1940)
    "let's go get them ... white mice !" (battlecry of the 1st Fighter Group, Army Air Force, Netherlands 1940)

  20. #20

    Default

    Hey Guss,

    I went with this picture. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3D25F0D0-11FD-44E5-8401-2213E819AC1C.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	65.6 KB 
ID:	289073

    Even though it is just black and white, the grey just didn’t look as dark as the one in the museum, which I considered during my research as well. I figured the modern grey paint they had on hand may have been a little darker than the original.

    Here she is with props and tail colors (which I forgot before the first pic). I’ll be happy to tweak the card for you so it matches the scheme amd insignia you choose.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	A47094A9-4E5F-4F08-AAAD-FE569851C9FA.jpg 
Views:	74 
Size:	56.4 KB 
ID:	289074

  21. #21

    Default

    Hi Dave,
    I think your color is as good as it gets. In the Dutch East Indies colors tended to fade in no time at all and take on other hues as well ... so trying to be absolute correct makes hardly any sense. And you know what they say ...If it looks good ...
    you may want to check my edits to my post above (#19)
    and, nice offer from you to edit a card for me, i'll take you up on that
    cheers,
    Guus
    "zet 'm op ... witte muizen !" (strijdkreet van 1e JaVa, Luchtvaart Afdeling, Nederland 1940)
    "let's go get them ... white mice !" (battlecry of the 1st Fighter Group, Army Air Force, Netherlands 1940)

  22. #22

    Default

    Great video Guss! I have an extra PBY I just might do in Dutch colors now!

  23. #23

    Default

    Your colors look good Dave. The Osprey book on Do-24T units has pre-war light gray and changes to closer to what you have.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SCAN0036.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	49.4 KB 
ID:	289089

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SCAN0037.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	50.6 KB 
ID:	289090

    Another book I have, Pearl Harbor to Coral Sea has a bit to say about the colors but nothing to nail it down 100%. They seemed to lean to thinking they were re-painted to match the Catalinas. They do state that unlike KNIL planes these definitely had the black bordered orange triangles on both upper and lower wing surfaces along with fuselage sides.

  24. #24

    Default

    Hey Peter, Excellent information, thank you!

  25. #25

    Default

    Revised card per information above. Please let me know if I missed anything, and thank you all! I will start working on the management card next.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Card Do-24 X-37.png 
Views:	59 
Size:	554.0 KB 
ID:	289091

  26. #26

    Default

    …. and a draft of the Management card. Any comments appreciated.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mgmt Do-24 X-37.png 
Views:	58 
Size:	532.0 KB 
ID:	289092

  27. #27

    Default

    I thought I would also include a Management card with a note allowing gun Position #2 to fire at higher targets in the full 180 degree arc to aft. If you look at the picture, it seems it could easily do so.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mgmt Do-24 X-37 - With Note.png 
Views:	43 
Size:	784.8 KB 
ID:	289405

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Do-24_p058.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	29.8 KB 
ID:	289406

  28. #28

    Default

    Dave,
    Two things that you could consider.

    First, Ares keeps evolving the markings on their cards, and for the B-25 dorsal turret they put two shields on it:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WGS302B-Card B-25C.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	113.1 KB 
ID:	289407
    The two shields on the dorsal arc, I believe, indicate that the red shield on the arc with the tail blind spot can hit targets at level, with the white shield indicating the 360 degree arc at higher.

    My second thought may not apply, for the Do.24. For the crew positions on some management cards, they don't indicate that crew can switch positions between guns:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WGS302B-Mgmnt.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	119.8 KB 
ID:	289408

    However, it is possible to do that, and on some cards they have a transition arrow. It might be that the transition arrow is for guns assigned to a single crew, but that crew needs to change positions between phases. So, perhaps not necessary for this plane, as each gun has a dedicated crew, at least at the start of a game.

    PS: The He.111 as an example:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WGS301B-Mgmnt.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	145.6 KB 
ID:	289409
    Ventral guns (6 and 7) on the He.111 are both manned by one crew, as are the waist guns (3 and 4). So, the positions are indicated with transition arrows, indicating that a crew has to move between guns. In the rules, a crew marker is placed on one of the positions to show which gun is currently manned.

    Normally, should a gunner be injured, an injured crew marker is placed on the management card for that position. If you move another crew to that position, you move the injured crew marker to the position from which the uninjured crew moved. For the He.111, should either the ventral or waist position crew be injured, the crew marker is substituted for an injured crew marker. If you move another crew to that position, you move the injured crew marker to the other position, and replace the crew marker on the ventral or waist position.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-27-2020 at 22:33.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  29. #29

    Default

    Excellent points Mike. I’ll make a few edits to the Do-24k card. The wife had me raking, digging and more in the yard all weekend.



Similar Missions

  1. Official FE2 painting thread
    By Guntruck in forum Painting Showcase
    Replies: 167
    Last Post: 01-12-2024, 06:42
  2. WGSF Official Dornier 217 Painting Thread
    By miscmini in forum Painting Showcase
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-29-2018, 16:49
  3. Official DH4 painting thread
    By Guntruck in forum Painting Showcase
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-03-2017, 11:38
  4. official b-25 painting thread
    By milcoll73 in forum Hobby Room
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-27-2016, 15:11
  5. WGSF Official PZL P11 painting thread
    By Blackronin in forum Painting Showcase
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-12-2014, 03:34

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •