Ares Games
Results 1 to 44 of 44

Thread: Cultural vandalism

  1. #1

    Default Cultural vandalism

    While at the RAF Museum I saw that many of the exhibits in the Battle of Britain Hall were being dismantled. Signs said this was for in-depth examination for restoration purposes. However, I struck up a conversation with one of the staff who told a more worrying picture. It appears the BoB Museum will be no more and the aircraft therein will be dispersed, either to areas within the Hendon site, RAF Cosford or put in storage. Given the available space at Hendon and Cosford I would guess most will be put in store, particularly the German/Italian aircraft.

    The BoB building itself will apparently become a visitors centre, including a children's play area with a token number of planes on display.

    Given that the BoB exhibition was a unique memorial to the men of all nationalities who fought in the Battle of Britain, I find it appalling that the Museum would even think of dispersing such a valuable collection. My 'source' suggested that the person responsible for this act of cultural vandalism is someone who has no background in military history and who's only experience in aviation is taking Eastjet to her holiday destination.

    The WW1 in the Sky exhibition in the Graeme White hangar is due to end in 2020, so who knows what they intend to do with the aircraft there once that closes.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  2. #2

    Default

    Some bean counter has obviously decided it would be better to rationalise the collection in order to reduce 'fiscal drag'. It always comes down to beans.

    Bloody tragedy.

  3. #3

    Default

    I've been there about two years ago and these two hangars, that you are talking about, were best, especially the one with WWI. Crossing fingers to saving them and if there will be a petition, let's post it here!

  4. #4

    Default

    Maybe somebody should take that up with the Schmuckette's bosses... when you stop telling the story of the RAF's finest hour, you might as well shut down the RAF museum as a whole. (And then there goes said P.C. Revisionist Bureaucrap's job... maybe somebody sould point that out to her.)

    I mean, post-Korea the farthest afield and sustained combat the RAF's seen other than Sandbox and Rockpile was Black Buck, if memory serves... (Not a diss on you guys, just saying that post-WWII a lot of the RAF's direct-combat activities have been in support of American operations--so you guys need to preserve the memory of the wars you've fought on your own or with us playing the "support" role wherever you can.)
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  5. #5

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
    Major

    Users Country Flag


    Name
    Matt
    Location
    Ohio
    Sorties Flown
    4,107
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default

    I can't imagine the the Battle of Britain section of the museum was not a primary 'draw' for the overall museum! Perhaps Ms. Beancounter has been counting the wrong beans...

    Never in the course of human events has one historically ignorant person done such damage to so many! (Okay, it's probably happened elsewhere, but you know what I mean...)

    Keep us posted on any follow-up, Steve - if there's some sort of petition, it would be great to add names to it, if possible!

    All the best,
    Matt

  6. #6

    Default

    Indeed--let's get this Gone Viral between Facebook, Twitter and other social media! I have a weekly historical-interest column at one of the larger American politics sites I could use to help put some sunlight on this sordid affair...
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  7. #7

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Indeed--let's get this Gone Viral between Facebook, Twitter and other social media! I have a weekly historical-interest column at one of the larger American politics sites I could use to help put some sunlight on this sordid affair...
    Great Idea DB!
    Lets make it go Viral!

    Bloody Bureaucrats with no love of our most important Historical Events!

  8. #8

    Default

    Whoever thought you'd have to fight a Second Battle of Britain against your own bureaucracy? Get me some facts and firsthand data to work with...

    Because when you stop telling the stories of those who beat him, Hitler wins in the end even posthumously.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Whoever thought you'd have to fight a Second Battle of Britain against your own bureaucracy? Get me some facts and firsthand data to work with...

    Because when you stop telling the stories of those who beat him, Hitler wins in the end even posthumously.
    I'm ahead of you DB. I've already initiated a Freedom of Information Request to ascertain the exact use to which the BoB building will be put, the proposed fate for every aircraft in the BoB Hall, and which f***tard thought closing the Hall was a good idea.

    So I've dug out the March 2016 copy of Flypast in which there was a 4 page article on plans for the RAF Museum. This is at variance to what I was told yesterday, in that everything apart from the Sunderland will be shifted out to make way for two exhibitions, 'The First 100 years of the RAF' and 'Now and the Future' (I assume the latter isn't going to take up much space). In the article the CEO Maggie Appleton, for it is she behind this travesty, states that the BoB Exhibition will move across to the main gallery. Now, anyone who has been to Hendon, seen the size of the BoB exhibition, and the amount of space in the main gallery will rapidly come to the conclusion it ain't gonna fit without something having to give. Oh yes, the same article states that the 'Milestones of flight' hall will morph into a 'technology and engineering learning space aimed at children' - in other words, that's another dozen or so aircraft looking for a new home.

    I despair of the administration to be honest - the same people who thought it a good idea to buy an Albatros D.V repro (nice though it is, not many served with the RFC/RAF) for the museum, last month put up for sale the UK's only surviving Miles Hawk Major that saw RAF service because 'there was a lack of relevance to the museum'!

  10. #10

    Default

    Dunno how to break this to ya, my friend... but even with F-35 as the sharpest arrow in your quiver (and for all its flaws, according to friends who fly it it's got an *amazing* set of capabilities), with "Don't Step In The..." Leadership like you have the RAF doesn't *have* a future.

    The D.V *does* belong, though, I'd argue... to tell the stories of your own fighting men you also need to take into account the men and machines they fought against. Hell, if the aircraft still existed and I had the chance to design a Cold War exhibit to be shared between NMUSAF at Dayton and the Russian museum at Monino, I'd put an early B-52 and Bear nose-to-nose at each site with a recreated crew alert-facility for each side behind the corresponding aircraft.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 07-24-2016 at 03:31.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Dunno how to break this to ya, my friend... but even with F-35 as the sharpest arrow in your quiver (and for all its flaws, according to friends who fly it it's got an *amazing* set of capabilities), with "Don't Step In The..." Leadership like you have the RAF doesn't *have* a future.
    No s**t, Sherlock That's why it's going to be a small exhibition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    The D.V *does* belong, though, I'd argue... to tell the stories of your own fighting men you also need to take into account the men and machines they fought against.
    Disagree. They already have a Fokker D.VII to tell the other side's story, money could have been better spent, and given the current financial climate 'make do with what you've got' is how I feel.
    Last edited by Guntruck; 07-24-2016 at 03:36.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  12. #12

    Default

    The other suspicion was that the Alby acquisition was a case of "kiss Brussels's arse and pretend to all be one big happy pan-European family"... conceded that that was not the right time, though. An original might have been a different story, but repros can always be procured at leisure and thus should with very few exceptions ALWAYS be back-burnered in favor of original artifacts.

    As for RAF future... well, my gal's dad is an old-school RCAF veteran and you should hear his view of everything in Canadian military-aviation and service politics this side of Douchenozzle Dump-sucker Diefenbaker killing the Arrow. O.O (We're talking turn-the-air-cockade-blue time...)
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  13. #13

    Default

    Typical beaurocrats that run the show but have no idea what the show really means.

  14. #14

    Default

    Well to me looks like the PC police have extended their reach much further than the US. What a shame.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    Well to me looks like the PC police have extended their reach much further than the US. What a shame.
    I doubt it has anything to do with PC, and much to do with ignorance and stupid adherence to a spreadsheet.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  16. #16

    Default

    Spreadsheet is one part but when I see that people here in the US don't know what Memorial or Veterans day are for I just wonder. I wonder how many people (other than here) can even tell you what the BoB was and who fought in it.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    Spreadsheet is one part but when I see that people here in the US don't know what Memorial or Veterans day are for I just wonder. I wonder how many people (other than here) can even tell you what the BoB was and who fought in it.
    Yeh, when you make the one the first major party weekend of the summer, and the other a day for government workers (and no others) off, things just go down hill.
    You have to wonder if earlier generations had as little interest in history as the current ones.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  18. #18

    Default

    Just a suspicion, but watch where the aircraft go. Sometimes they are bought out by private parties and the skids get greased so to speak. Or there is the chance they are short funds and selling off historical aircraft to afford all the PC displays.

    Just blunt guesses with nothing to back em up though.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    M...And then there goes said P.C. Revisionist Bureaucrap's job... maybe somebody should point that out to her....
    Thing is, these are the types of people that will screw things up and move on before the roof falls in so it never effects them.

    "He is wise who watches"

  20. #20

    Default

    "Only 24 years to go till the centenary", or "Almost a quarter of a century until the centenary".
    Statement number one; we'd best start planning for something epic.
    Statement number two; there's no rush, some other mug in the future will get landed with that, lets flog the family jewels before anyone notices and swan off into the distance.

    I've put something on FB and my re-enactor friends have started to spread it.

    Lest we forget

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Maybe somebody should take that up with the Schmuckette's bosses... when you stop telling the story of the RAF's finest hour, you might as well shut down the RAF museum as a whole. (And then there goes said P.C. Revisionist Bureaucrap's job... maybe somebody sould point that out to her.)

    I mean, post-Korea the farthest afield and sustained combat the RAF's seen other than Sandbox and Rockpile was Black Buck, if memory serves... (Not a diss on you guys, just saying that post-WWII a lot of the RAF's direct-combat activities have been in support of American operations--so you guys need to preserve the memory of the wars you've fought on your own or with us playing the "support" role wherever you can.)
    Unfortunately, said bean counter will most likely get a promotion for saving beans and get a new lucrative job and sod the historical aspect.
    Unfortunately something becoming all too familiar in the country.

  22. #22

    Default

    I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?
    I have raised a Petition on the Government website and now need at least 5 supporters.
    Pleas clickon the link to get this going.

    Click this link to sign the petition:
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...ASVE2QSUCUXDhQ

    My petition:

    Save the Battle of Britain display at the Royal Aircraft Museum.

    While at the RAF Museum I saw that many of the exhibits in the Battle of Britain Hall were being dismantled. It appears the BoB Museum will be no more and the aircraft therein will be dispersed, either to areas within the Hendon site, RAF Cosford or put in storage

  23. #23

    Default

    Note - only British citizens or UK residents may sign.


    C'mon fellows

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel View Post
    I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?
    Done and done Reg

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Yeh, when you make the one the first major party weekend of the summer, and the other a day for government workers (and no others) off, things just go down hill.
    You have to wonder if earlier generations had as little interest in history as the current ones.
    Karl
    They did--how else do you explain USS Enterprise and USS Washington going to scrap and the scuttling of Foudroyant/ex-Duguay-Trouin? And then there's the sad case of WWII's "Ship That Refused To Die" USS Laffey and the crowd that wanted to take her out of her museum and scrap her just a few short years ago...
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  26. #26

    Default

    all done but we need minimum of 5 to go live get signing chaps

    Kev

  27. #27

    Default

    Done!
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  28. #28

    Default

    a 'technology and engineering learning space aimed at children'
    Bingo. This is what t is all about. Visit many museums that we would have loved in the "old style" and you will see many traditional exhibits making way for more "hands on" experiential displays and activities for the kids. We may not like these changes in style (I visited the once great maritime museum in Amsterdam just before they opened after their renovation that to my mind killed the place stone dead) but this is what the "mainstream" general public likes these days and is what gets them through the door. I have a number of friends in the museum business around the world and it is a common trend, just about everywhere.

  29. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel View Post

    Click this link to sign the petition:
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...ASVE2QSUCUXDhQ
    Done

  30. #30

    Default

    Many thanks to the 5 sponsors. Just have to wait now to see if they accept it for publication on the site.
    Guntruck, hope you don't mind my using your words verbatim. I did try a variation but kept getting told it was too big and must cut it down so in the end just used as few of your words as possible.
    Cheers Guys.
    If this does get accepted we must get as many people as possible to add their names. I shall be canvasing the members of my Wargame Club for a start.

  31. #31

    Default

    As a non-UK citizen I can't join you. At least, I'm crossing my fingers

  32. #32

    Default

    I'll ask my readers to reach out to any Subjects of Your Crown they might know.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  33. #33

    Post

    Bugger I would have signed but being an Old Colonial precludes me.

  34. #34

    Default

    There are more than a few Brits around a Star Citizen (PC game) bulletin board I frequent, so I've asked for a Fire Mission from them. Hope it helps.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  35. #35

    Default

    By the way, some feedback from a buddy over there who's putting the word out to his crowd:
    Though @Diamondback - if you have a link into the original petitionee, I would encourage some more concrete information to be put on the petition - at the moment it is quite curt and doesn't exactly 'tug at the heartstrings'
    Also, a quote for you to consider using:
    "A nation which will not remember its past has no future."--Abraham Lincoln

    Hope this helps.

    Also, from another:
    Signed. GP Capt Maddison who flies the Lancaster for BBMF is a friend of mine. I will do some digging on this.
    [follow-on] OK 'Mad' isn't doing BBMF this year but he will ask around.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  36. #36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel View Post
    I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?
    I have raised a Petition on the Government website and now need at least 5 supporters.
    Pleas clickon the link to get this going.

    Click this link to sign the petition:
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...ASVE2QSUCUXDhQ
    Signed.

    Tony.

  37. #37

    Default

    Another avenue of action may be to inform veteran's organizations and get them on board with trying to block this travesty.

  38. #38

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DCP_4953.jpg 
Views:	52 
Size:	129.0 KB 
ID:	203112

    Diamondback, Since you mentioned the USS Enterprise here is a picture I took of her while on a harbor tour of Norfolk. A pity some part of a great ship could not be saved.

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DCP_4953.jpg 
Views:	52 
Size:	129.0 KB 
ID:	203112

    Diamondback, Since you mentioned the USS Enterprise here is a picture I took of her while on a harbor tour of Norfolk. A pity some part of a great ship could not be saved.
    How sad. Enterprise is for me in the same bracket as Constitution.

  40. #40

    Default

    Her too, but I was thinking of WWII CV-6 that even Bull Halsey pleading from his deathbed couldn't save.

    Is there a UK equivalent to the American Legion or Veterans of Foreign Wars that you could maybe link in with and get them into the fight, or an RAF version of our Air Force Association?
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  41. #41

    Default

    According to an article in Aeroplane, June 2016, the Sunderland is staying put as you said and it is planned to keep the Spitfire, Hurricane, Bolingbroke, BF109, BF110, Fiat CR42, He 111 and Ju 87 at Hendon with the fighters being displayed together. The Ju 88, Defiant, Gladiator and Tiger Moth will move to Cosford. The Lysander also moving to Cosford for remedial work.

    Tony.

  42. #42

    Default Save the Battle of Briton flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Morning chaps
    I have to say I am a little disappointed the petition has gone live to save the Battle of Briton flight and it has only 9 signatures come on you UK Pilots sign up and save this important heritage exhibition!
    Link address

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/163020

    Regards Kev

  43. #43

    Default

    Come on chaps. Show a little of the B o B spirit and get signing.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/163020

    Rebel

  44. #44

    Default

    Done. In fact I was one of the first 5 needed to even get the petition to go public.



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •