New Bf 109K-4 - Unboxing

**Nightbomber** · 06-21-2016 06:52

I have just returned from Origins 2016 tonight with lots of fantastic memoirs and goodies - also from ARES booth

.
Considering you would surely like to know more about the new series 6 minis, here I come with the long awaited Bf 109K-4 miniature, which I already have in my hands and already flew in one of the missions.

So lets unbox it!

Initial impression: new price (15 USD)

and packaging

- a box is wrapped in foil.

What we get inside? More than we used to get before. A general look:
This is E.Hartmann's plane, the yellow "tulip".
First - the good.

18 Large maneuver cards that we already know - but have a look at the 2 cards on the right: the slow speed side slips on cards 15 and 16 are very interesting.

The special option and pilot's skill cards: a big plus for ARES.
Motorkanone jams, optional gun pods, drop tanks - this is it. And the rules really work. I used the motorkanone and the gun pods against a B-17 in fight. In the first pass delivered 24 hit points. Impressive! The motorkanone never jammed - I was luck. I scored the B-17 finally as a solo kill and stayed alive which was a fantastic experience.

Now the flaws, which are few.

The miniature. Top view.

The shape of the wings (too oval) and horizontal stabilizers (too rectangular) are absolutely not correct, which is - unfortunately visible from a table top distance. Sorry ARES, relevant AIM and Shapeways models, however come out not painted, are better dead ringers of the Bf 109 K-4.
Moreover, the shape of the wings on the planes' cards are absolutely right!
The unpainted edges of the rudder and stabilizers are annoying.
Let's compare with a proper profile.

The side view.

The (rubber) antenna did not exist and is easy to cut off. But the rudder shape is wrong. It is a hybrid between F/G and K version. Really bad.

Look at the profile.

And the underside:

Hey! White fields? What the hell? And where are the gun pods? Searched the box - no sign of them. But we have holes! Arghhh! MINUS ARES!

OK, let's have a look at the two other, generic (no particular pilot, just a unit) minis.

The option cards like before are the same (Motorkanone, gun pods, drop tanks).

Still no gun pods, just the holes. Bad.

And here goes the third one.

The option cards like before are the same (Motorkanone, gun pods, drop tanks).

Aha! Here we have them. Gun pods! Hey, no kidding ARES. These are rather rocket pods. Bad shape. Moreover - completely not visible from above.

Now let's check the technical profile of the plane:
Initial batch.
Erla Haube in the prototype version only.

Here is a photo taken from Toliver's and Constable'sbook: Holt Hartmann vom Himmel!

Overall, if I had to rate the models in an ascending scale 1-10, I would give it barely 6.
It was a great opportunity to publish a MUCH more popular F or G versions (which are quite similar), but the decision was to bring out this, not so common, to the market. It will probably sell well and casual players will not see the flaws mentioned above, but for me they are annoying and I am going slightly mad about them, like Boney10 about the tripe.

**Guntruck** · 06-21-2016 07:23

All in all, a bit of a dog's breakfast then

Edit: You forgot to mention the trench system in the top wing.......

**Teaticket** · 06-21-2016 08:37

Like most releases we will have to finish the models ourselves touching up the edges.

But as a game piece I am always glad to get new ones.

**Wolfbiter** · 06-21-2016 08:50

Curious that there are holes to place the gunpods. I wonder if, given the small size and delicacy of the miniatures, that the gunpods proved too fragile and were abandoned?

Since I'm not as familiar with the details of the 109-K, the errors are not as much of a deal-breaker for me, but I can understand why a diehard Messerschmitt enthusiast would find them frustrating.

I do think including quirks like jamming and additional weapons are a great addition!

How did you like the plane in terms of gameplay?

(For myself, I like the paint schemes and the mini, even if the details are a bit off, and I'm looking forward to getting mine soon!)

**Jager** · 06-21-2016 09:05

Looks like they gave you(us) the 21 cm (8 in) Wfr.Gr. 21 rocket tubes.

Karl

**Nightbomber** · 06-21-2016 10:04

Just for a quick reference: below you can see my 1:72 Bf 109 K-4 model in which the wingtip shape is visible.
I know the gaming pieces can nit ne compared to a bigger model, but using today's technology and pictures of the plane available on demand, wrong shape of the mini's wings is very hard to understand. Someone must have accepted a faulty shape before clicking - "produce". Tell me why?

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**fast.git** · 06-21-2016 10:07

Disappointing flaws, to be sure. Now to decide if they're worth the purchase for the cards, etc... What do you think, Andy? I didn't fly one at Origins... did their game play outweigh their visible flaws?

**Nightbomber** · 06-21-2016 10:14

Originally Posted by fast.git

Disappointing flaws, to be sure. Now to decide if they're worth the purchase for the cards, etc... What do you think, Andy? I didn't fly one at Origins... did their game play outweigh their visible flaws?

Definitely they did very well, Chris and as game pieces they are more than ok.

I succesfully flew one and appreciated their possibilities in flying and firing.

**fast.git** · 06-21-2016 10:15

Originally Posted by Nightbomber

Definitely they did very well, Chris and as game pieces they are more than ok.

I succesfully flew one and appreciated their possibilities in flying and firing.

Outstanding news. Thanks for the review, Andy.

**Teaticket** · 06-21-2016 10:17

The flaws are sad to have when it would have been not much more effort to get it correct. Luckily we have AIM for correct planes, at least for those of us that will paint.

**flash** · 06-21-2016 11:45

Seems odd they include the drop pod but not the weapons fit when the drop pod is the first thing to go when entering into combat. Thanks for the review Andy, not entirely unexpected having seen images of the prototype. Still a playable piece though, I only hope they do better with the WGF release.

**Guntruck** · 06-21-2016 12:06

Originally Posted by fast.git

Disappointing flaws, to be sure. Now to decide if they're worth the purchase for the cards, etc... What do you think, Andy? I didn't fly one at Origins... did their game play outweigh their visible flaws?

This isn't Ares' finest hour, I'm afraid. Not wishing to diss it too much, but I have to say that it reminds me of something that might come out of a Christmas cracker.

Well, I'll get them, but only for the decks, card and stands. I'll run the planes against some scale plans to see if some surgery will produce a recognisable 109 variant. I feel this particular model will be to me as the Sopwith Triplane is to Chris Boney10.

**Mike George** · 06-21-2016 12:43

The only thing I found about drop tanks for the Bf109 a 66 gal auxiliary drop tank, a jettisonable drop tank made of molded plywood were duly produced. The tank leaked badly, and pilot suspected that it would easily ignite in combat, so it saw no operational service to the end of 1940. Did they come up with a better drop tank?

**grumpybear** · 06-21-2016 14:55

I might grab one but not overly impressed. Thanks for the review Andy

**Jager** · 06-21-2016 16:46

Originally Posted by Mike George

The only thing I found about drop tanks for the Bf109 a 66 gal auxiliary drop tank, a jettisonable drop tank made of molded plywood were duly produced. The tank leaked badly, and pilot suspected that it would easily ignite in combat, so it saw no operational service to the end of 1940. Did they come up with a better drop tank?

The references I have read are for a 300 Ltr (80 gal) tank, which was used through the end of the war. The one you mentioned might have been a hasty jerry-rig (pun) for the BoB.
Karl

**Dom S** · 06-21-2016 17:11

Spot on - the original drop tank designed for the 109E-7 and later (some earlier variants had a centreline bomb rack, but not the plumbing for a drop tank) was a plywood affair variously reported as 66 or 70 gallon capacity, and suffered from major leakage problems - the glue was prone to disintegrating when the tank was filled.... This meant it was shunned operationally, and the Battle Of Britain rather spectacularly highlighted how major a deficiency that was.

After that they developed several broadly similar variants of 300 litre alloy drop tank, entering service in 1941. Most 109G and K variants could carry one on the centreline as a Rüstsatz upgrade (R III), and a few long range 109G variants had wing fittings for a pair of them (a /R3 suffix at the end of the subtype denotes this - eg. the Bf.109 G6/R3.)

**Canestri10** · 06-21-2016 19:50

Can't wait for mine to arrive!

**Naharaht** · 06-21-2016 20:33

Is there an opportunity here for Aerodrome Accessories to produce cannon pods, rocket pods, bombs and drop tanks?

**clipper1801** · 06-21-2016 21:10

I can hear drums in the deep, the elves may need to rise to the call . . . I haven't acquired any of the new toys yet but can already see some canopy and edge painting is going to be happening here soon . . . Just sayin

**Caveman** · 06-21-2016 23:19

No they are not perfect, but neither were the Nexus versions. As a game piece they look and feel much less fragile. I am happy to have them in my collection.

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**AlgyLacey** · 06-21-2016 23:50

Makes the differences pretty stark. I for one will keep my money in my pocket.

I hope Nexus are listening to this.

**Canestri10** · 06-22-2016 01:15

Originally Posted by AlgyLacey

Makes the differences pretty stark. I for one will keep my money in my pocket.

I hope Nexus are listening to this.

You mean Ares?

**Nightbomber** · 06-22-2016 02:23

Originally Posted by Caveman

No they are not perfect, but neither were the Nexus versions. As a game piece they look and feel much less fragile. I am happy to have them in my collection.

Neither was perfect, but in the comparison you presented, the Emil version is much, much closer to the original plane than the Karl is. Frankly, as a model maker and a die-hard Bf-109 fan I can not point any visible, striking flaws in E version as far as proportions and shapes are concerned. Even the paintjobs on Nexus Emils were more authentic, believe me. Karl of Ares is just a carelessly designed miniature.
And of course I know, these are gaming pieces, not close-to-original models and you look at them from a tabletop distance, but there is an old true: if you can do something properly, do it. Ares obviously WAS ABLE to produce a much better Karl miniature even as a gaming piece, but simply failed. And that is annoying.

**Guntruck** · 06-22-2016 05:25

Originally Posted by Naharaht

Is there an opportunity here for Aerodrome Accessories to produce cannon pods, rocket pods, bombs and drop tanks?

...or one of our Shapeways designers (cue Foz)?

**Nightbomber** · 06-22-2016 05:53

I wonder if anybody at ARES has ever seen the Bf 109 gun pods. Here they are.

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I can not beat the feeling ARES badly wanted to start selling the new series minis no matter the flaws.
Correct me if I am wrong, but releasing the Bf 109K in that status, with incorrect wing tips, wrong tail, stabilizers and rudder shape, with holes in two minis and "rocket tubes" (?) under the wings of the third one BUT with gun pod cards is...well, hard to find the right word not to break the Forum standard of expression.
Are we such hungry for new series as to accept such a product?
Feeling a bit screwed, for with already placed order at AA I will have 6 of those minis.
I wonder what ARES guys have for their defence.

**Dan-Sam** · 06-22-2016 06:51

Believe me or not, I'm OK with them. Holes are stupid, but the rest is OK for me - couldn't recognize differences (especially in the case of canopy). Desert Spits looks worse than Bf.109K. Just my 2c.

**Nightbomber** · 06-22-2016 07:45

Originally Posted by Dan-Sam

Desert Spits looks worse than Bf.109K. Just my 2c.

Could not disagree more, my friend.
You have the same unpainted edges here, but Spits are shaped perfectly.

**grumpybear** · 06-22-2016 13:43

I don't play WW2 much. I was looking forward to 109K when I first read about it . Seeing the mini now I don't think I will ever own one

**Guntruck** · 06-22-2016 14:28

Originally Posted by Nightbomber

I wonder if anybody at ARES has ever seen the Bf 109 gun pods. Here they are.

I can not beat the feeling ARES badly wanted to start selling the new series minis no matter the flaws.
Correct me if I am wrong, but releasing the Bf 109K in that status, with incorrect wing tips, wrong tail, stabilizers and rudder shape, with holes in two minis and "rocket tubes" (?) under the wings of the third one BUT with gun pod cards is...well, hard to find the right word not to break the Forum standard of expression.
Are we such hungry for new series as to accept such a product?
Feeling a bit screwed, for with already placed order at AA I will have 6 of those minis.
I wonder what ARES guys have for their defence.

What that man said!

**csadn** · 06-22-2016 14:52

"Gott verdammt es, Karl!" ;)

**Canestri10** · 06-22-2016 14:54

I'm going to stand by Andy on this but as the old saying goes "take what you can get"....

I've already expressed my dissapointment on these horrible unpainted edges because they started cutting corners in the production processes.

Something tells me Ares (in particular Roberto, I know Andrea does his best to come on here but more is needed) needs to have more of a connection with the folk here on the drome. Like release design pics and then have the people like Andy here who knows ALOT about said aircraft can supply pics and diagrams and give their insight before they start mass producing these error ridden minis they can save themselves alot of embarrassment. But then again they may simply not care enough to be embarrassed at all. Look at the heavies for example

I wish Andy was on the design team

**AlgyLacey** · 06-22-2016 14:57

Originally Posted by Canestri10

You mean Ares?

I do. Must have bashed my bonce on the instrument panel last time I walked home

**Nightbomber** · 06-22-2016 15:18

Originally Posted by Canestri10

I wish Andy was on the design team

Thank you Sir!
But I think many of us asked for a kind of brainstorming before production run would be able to improve things. We simply know what we want to play with.

**Dan-Sam** · 06-22-2016 16:31

Can I provoke?

**Nightbomber** · 06-22-2016 23:35

Originally Posted by Dan-Sam

Can I provoke?

Of course you can! This is an open discussion

.

**Dan-Sam** · 06-23-2016 06:20

The most important question is not "Why?", but "What to do with it?" Almost everyone know what Ares should do, but why they don't? Because they do not know? I do not think so - Andrea was twice in Prague during last two Prague Cons and we told him about our feelings. And I do not think he's like a celebrity who don't listen to his players.
So the million dollar question: What we can do for it? And my personal opinion is that words here can't help much.

No offence, nothing personal, of course.

**Teaticket** · 06-23-2016 06:31

Originally Posted by Naharaht

Is there an opportunity here for Aerodrome Accessories to produce cannon pods, rocket pods, bombs and drop tanks?

The P-47 also has the same type of holes under the wings, rockets? A Shapeways WSF add on for these planes should be possible. A snap fit would give opportunity to fly with or without.

**Dan-Sam** · 06-23-2016 06:40

Yeah, I almost forget - these additional cannons would be superb!

**Black Sheep One** · 06-23-2016 07:31

I would like to add my opinion to this:

I agree the the sentiments that all you, especially Andy and Daniel.

I am wondering if this was an assembly line error, with gun pods supposed to be added, but were not. The models we got were initial Ares production line models.

Many you want the realism, and I appreciate it. I want my planes as close to real as can be possible in the scale provided. I am just glad to have some more WGS planes. No offense to all who play WGF (including me), but for us WGS fans, we were happy just to have some new planes to enjoy. But, we pilots are perfectionists. We love the realism of the game. I know with the 1/200 scale, there are some trade offs that have to be made. Yet, AIM and Shapeways can produce realistic planes. In the past Ares has been spot on on some planes, and off kilter on others. I am still buying the planes, no matter what. But I also see why others will not. Ares needs to take note.

For us who have worked retail here in the states (and I am sure it is this way in other lands as well), there is an adage: The customer is always right. My hopes is that Andrea and the Ares team hears us. We appreciate them, and I know they feel likewise.

My apologies if I seem to be going off the walls on this.

**Nightbomber** · 06-23-2016 07:39

Originally Posted by Dan-Sam

The most important question is not "Why?", but "What to do with it?" Almost everyone know what Ares should do, but why they don't? Because they do not know? I do not think so - Andrea was twice in Prague during last two Prague Cons and we told him about our feelings. And I do not think he's like a celebrity who don't listen to his players.
So the million dollar question: What we can do for it? And my personal opinion is that words here can't help much.

No offence, nothing personal, of course.

Andrea's knowledge of aircratft in general is well known and I do not blame him. The problems were: a badly, carelessly designed sculpt and a decision of acceptance.
And what intrigues me more: From my own experience ARES treats it's customers with care. Now we have a wrong and obviously unfinished sculpt (holes) priced higher than previous minis of the type. And please do not tell me they will sell the gunpods separately as an expansion.
I must confess I have expected a higher level of satisfaction with that purchase, so to say.

"words here can't help much." ?
Maybe. But what can? If we silently accept a lower quality product this time (and I am of the opinion Bf 109K is a low quality and lower detailed product), next time we can expect even lower one. A Corsair with badly warped wings? Who cares? It is a long awaited Corsair anyway the community shouts!
Eventually we can get a Messerspit like the infamous A&A miniature model. Funny?

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OK ARES, take my money, but give me quality gaming piece. 15 USD is not a little price for a single miniature like that, comparing e.g. to X-Wing miniatures.
I can stand painting flaws, which are easy to correct, but scuplt is something more serious.

**Teaticket** · 06-23-2016 07:42

I will continue to buy just about any new release to support Wings. Yes, the gaming pieces aren't always up to our standards but I think it is better to have them keep producing new pieces than to stop. Wings is definitely not ARES top priority and with so many pokers in the fire I just hope they keep producing the Wings lines. I would prefer they get it correct and hope they hear us for future releases.

**Nightbomber** · 06-23-2016 07:44

I am very sorry I shouted a bit,

; abusing anybody was not my purpose and is not my style. But where could I sincerely make my point if not among friends, mind-like people?

**Teaticket** · 06-23-2016 07:49

Andy, we know you are passionate about Wings. We'd all love it (some maybe not as much as you!

) for ARES to make correct models all the time. With their track record I won't hold my breath. At least what they do make is playable and they keep expanding (slower than we'd like) our addiction.

**Nightbomber** · 06-23-2016 08:04

Originally Posted by Teaticket

Andy, we know you are passionate about Wings. We'd all love it (some maybe not as much as you!

) for ARES to make correct models all the time. With their track record I won't hold my breath. At least what they do make is playable and they keep expanding (slower than we'd like) our addiction.

Very true, Peter

.

**Black Sheep One** · 06-23-2016 08:04

We are family here. We are passionate and vocal about our love for this game. You, as well as others, make very valid points.

We are ambassadors for this game, whether at Origins, PragueCon, GenCon, our local game store. How many have become fellow pilots because of our love for Wings of Glory.

As far as I am concerned, no apology is needed for me. Keep shouting from the mountaintop Andy!

Originally Posted by Nightbomber

I am very sorry I shouted a bit,

; abusing anybody was not my purpose and is not my style. But where could I sincerely make my point if not among friends, mind-like people?

**Teaticket** · 06-23-2016 08:13

Originally Posted by Black Sheep One

We are family here. We are passionate and vocal about our love for this game. You, as well as others, make very valid points.

We are ambassadors for this game, whether at Origins, PragueCon, GenCon, our local game store. How many have become fellow pilots because of our love for Wings of Glory.

As far as I am concerned, no apology is needed for me. Keep shouting from the mountaintop Andy!

**Black Sheep One** · 06-23-2016 08:44

Oh, I missed adding this to my previous post: And thank you too, Daniel, for your advocacy as well!

**Dan-Sam** · 06-23-2016 13:21

The main point what I want to say is that just talking about on the Aerodrome doesn't help. If would, everything would be OK for a long time. If you want a change, you must act. Write a letter (not email) to Ares, start a petition, arrange a meeting with "not-only-game-designer" during Prague Con, go to Italy and talk directly to CEO etc. When everything is in "talking layer", you can't change anything.

**Diamondback** · 06-23-2016 13:26

I'm going to refer this thread to Rob, the real decisionmaker on Wings/Sails--he needs to hear about Triplane PR Nightmare 2.0.

Also, it might be worthwhile to post your reviews of the 109K over on BGG too.

Most of WGF/WGS/Sails I'd pay full price for brick-and-mortar sans complaint, but these... I'm just not willing to pay more than the $10 CSI or MM are asking for what I'll get.

**Nightbomber** · 06-23-2016 13:57

Originally Posted by Dan-Sam

The main point what I want to say is that just talking about on the Aerodrome doesn't help. If would, everything would be OK for a long time. If you want a change, you must act. Write a letter (not email) to Ares, start a petition, arrange a meeting with "not-only-game-designer" during Prague Con, go to Italy and talk directly to CEO etc. When everything is in "talking layer", you can't change anything.

Yes and No, Daniel.
We are here - so to say - professionals and veterans, not casual players. Chaps here can understand not only what I am posting, but also feel my pain.
Casual players will be probably happy to buy a new toy and this is ok. But for me this game is not a Ticket to Ride or Carcassonne (these I love to play of course), but now WoG is part of my gaming life, it influences my life, my family life and intgrates my interest, my modeling hobby, my reading, my social events and stuff alike.

Look at my years' calendar: Spring: Prague Con (since 2012), Fall: Doncaster (since 2014), Origins (2013, 2016 - so cool!). All international events with fantastic people. FRIENDS. Not to mention the costs, for if one wants to have such fun must shell out, no word about it.

But then I expect to be taken seriously (if this is the right word

).
I know and repeat it all the time: The game is important, but the people I meet are important much more.
This Bf 109 K-4 is not a proof I am taken seriously by the publisher. I am sorry ARES, I love you guys for your customer care I experienced (Galaxy Defenders!), War of the Ring and Battle of Five Armies. But do not beat around the bush, this model is nothing to be proud of.

I won't say a word about it anywhere else, won't write to them, won't complain, won't publish any other review elswhere.
The Forum here is the place I exchange my WoG gaming experience among like minded people.
Soon I will have a set of 6 models of this kind and I will surely won't regret any dollar I spent on them.
But I will surely try to reshape and repaint them (it's gonna be so fun!) and show you what we can have out of them.

As we barristers say: A good judge can properly apply even an imperfect law.

Now

and let me enjoy my glass of bourbon, called "Blue Barrel".

No I have noticed it is my 9500 sortie

. What a coincidence!