Ares Games
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 73

Thread: OTT Bitter End Mission 1, 10 November 1917, The end at Passchendaele by Teaticket

  1. #1

    Default OTT Bitter End Mission 1, 10 November 1917, The end at Passchendaele by Teaticket

    On the morning of November 6th the Canadian Corp finally reached the objective of Passchendaele. The Third Battle of Ypres was closing down. Four days later on the 10th they launched the final attack to gain the remaining high ground to the north of Passchendaele.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1024px-Second_Battle_of_Passchendaele_-_Barbed_wire_and_Mud.jpg 
Views:	776 
Size:	194.0 KB 
ID:	197884
    Terrain where the Canadian Corp advanced through.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1024px-Chateauwood.jpg 
Views:	773 
Size:	212.0 KB 
ID:	197885
    Australians in Chateau Wood 29 october 1917.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	before and after.jpg 
Views:	763 
Size:	31.9 KB 
ID:	197886
    Passchendaele before and after.


    The Mission:
    Just after dawn on the 10 a photo recon was sent out to locate any important targets. HQ wanted no surprises from the Germans behind the heights. The eyes in the sky were to look for any artillery batteries, ammo dumps, troop concentrations. The following mission was to neutralize any targets found so the boys on the ground could take the high ground as easily as possible. Good photos with precise locations are needed to succeed.

    Forces:
    The British have 2 two seaters (Sopwith 1 1/2s, DH4s...whatever you have historically possible) They will both fire as B/B. In addition there will be 2 escorting scouts.

    British will only get reinforcements if a 2 seater is shot down before it takes a photo. If that happens a new 2 seater will enter as per starting positions.

    The Germans have 3 Albatros DVa scouts.

    The Germans can receive reinforcements but only if it will bring them up to 1 less active plane than the British.

    Examples, Germans start with 3 to the British 4. If an Albatros is taken out of the fight a new one will arrive randomly north or south at the German starting positions. (as soon as the German poses no threat check for reinforcement possibility)
    If the British are down to 3 planes before the Germans lose one, the Germans can operate their 3 normally. If the Germans then lose one they cannot get a reinforcement as they would be then one less than the British. It the Germans then lose another so they are down to 1 to the British 3, they can bring in a new Albatros making it 2 to 3.

    Set Up:

    Playing surface is to be two mats area joined along the long edges.
    3 German ground force cards are placed evenly across the mat ~1 inch back from the center edge, one B machine gun with infantry in the center and an infantry position on either side. The B mg will only fire one card of fire regardless the range. These positions cannot be destroyed. (see photo for targets or British set up)

    Targets:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	4.jpg 
Views:	781 
Size:	254.0 KB 
ID:	197887
    10 targets cards are placed behind the German ground forces. They are to be set up so that they are not lined up in a straight line to other target cards. Use photo as a guide.

    British
    Set up first with the 2 two seaters in the center and flanked by the scouts.
    (If playing altitude, 2 seaters are at 3, scouts 4)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1.jpg 
Views:	771 
Size:	259.0 KB 
ID:	197888


    Germans
    Set up 2nd with one Albatros on the north and one on the south. The third will be randomly selected for north or south. (this is also where any reinforcements will enter)
    (If using altitude, level 4)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2.jpg 
Views:	778 
Size:	266.9 KB 
ID:	197889

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3.jpg 
Views:	770 
Size:	258.2 KB 
ID:	197890



    The Mission:

    A British player will fly both 2 seaters, the 2 scouts will be AI.
    The British try to score points by taking successful photographs and bringing them home. After taking 3 photographs a plane must return home. You can return sooner.
    Taking photographs... you must be flying straight or stall and end that movement with the plane’s base overlapping the target card.
    Photographs taken should be recorded, noting whether it was taken on a stall or a straight and if the base covered the red dot on the target card.
    (and note altitude if used) If using altitude the 2 seaters remain at level 2 if they descend there to take the photos. They will not waste time trying to climb, they will head home asap.
    Remove the target card once it has been photographed.
    When back home you get the results of your photography work.

    Play will continue until both British 2 seaters return off their side of the board. If all 2 seaters are downed the British scouts will head home as their mission was to protect them.
    The Germans will keep on fighting until all British planes have crossed back to their side of the lines or have been shot down.

    In addition to the Butcher's Bill all players must list each photograph brought home with the conditions it was taken, ie. stall, covering dot, straight, altitude. Photographs can not get home in time if shot down behind enemy lines. If shot down in No Man's Land you cannot be delayed for photographs to be useful for next mission. If 2 or 3 photos are returned from NML the best one will have been smashed in the crash.

    If for some drastic events one does not return any good photos, fear not, there is a special next mission waiting for you.

    Chris (fastgit) will roll these out and give you your results.

    1 Nothing important
    2 New trenches
    3 Aerodrome
    4 Ammunition dump
    5 Troop concentration
    6 Artillery Battery

    Die roll modifiers:
    +1 if stall
    +1 if over red dot
    -1 straight
    -1 per level over 2
    (no photos at level 1)

    A German player will fly one Albatros but will also have to guide the British 2 seaters to targets.
    Plot you Albatros normally first, then starting with turn 3 randomly roll what target the 2 seater will fly for, checking the closest reasonable targets currently available and easiest to line up on. On turn cards you can reduce the turn to line up a photo run if the turn would fly your heading past the target.

    This is the first part of a two part mission. Part two will be presented by Chris (fastgit) next month. This is why you won’t know your results immediately. He will develop the photographs, study the findings and send you on your next mission of destruction! (or defense as a German)
    Last edited by Teaticket; 06-23-2016 at 11:48.

  2. #2

  3. #3

    Thumbs up

    That looks like a cracker Peter!

  4. #4

    Default

    I think I've got it, with a few clarifications:
    Play continues until one side leaves the field, or is eliminated from the field?
    If playing Entente, the player operates the 2 entente 2-seaters, and all scouts of both sides by AI;
    If playing Central Powers, the player operates 1 selected CP scout, and the remaining scouts of both sides by AI; the entente 2-seaters are also directed by the CP player individually to the next nearest available unphotographed target until both planes are lost or all targets photographed, at which point they would take the most direct route back home? I would also assume that they will maintain a constant altitude at least until that point?

  5. #5

    Default

    Oops, had a very busy weekend and was in hurry up mode getting this posted. Thanks for pointing out some not so clear points!

    Play will continue until both British 2 seaters return off their side of the board. If both all 2 seaters are downed the British scouts will head home as their mission was to protect them.
    The Germans will keep on fighting until all British planes have crossed back to their side of the lines or have been shot down.

    If playing with altitude ( solo I rarely do and won't here ) the 2 seaters will remain at level 2 after taking the photos if they drop down to level 2.
    Last edited by Teaticket; 05-31-2016 at 20:30.

  6. #6

    Setarius's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies
    Users Country Flag


    Name
    Dale
    Location
    Kentucky
    Sorties Flown
    1,685
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default

    Wow, looks like a tough one, but interesting. Will need exceptional skill from the 2-seater crews.

  7. #7

    Default

    Well done Peter for opening the batting - I can see the air turning blue over a few tables as we try and park it on a card !
    Good luck everybody

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  8. #8

    Default

    Swine you have the new mats!!!!


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  9. #9

    Default

    That looks really interesting. Love it! Thanks Don't have any mats but I'll muddle through somehow.

  10. #10

    Default

    No matter Mike, your 3D playing area will be even better than the mats.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  11. #11

    Default

    So If you are German All the RFC planes are AI Correct? or do you play the mission with 2 seater German planes with the mission being reversed ie the RFC are to shoot you down and the Huns take the photos


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Swine you have the new mats!!!!
    They are only paper...at the moment.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Well done Peter for opening the batting - I can see the air turning blue over a few tables as we try and park it on a card !
    Good luck everybody
    Got to get those precise images! With practice it's not that difficult. At least in testing I got much better at it.

    All, don't forget about the observer not being able to shoot the movement card before and during the photo taking.
    Last edited by Teaticket; 06-01-2016 at 08:50.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    So If you are German All the RFC planes are AI Correct? or do you play the mission with 2 seater German planes with the mission being reversed ie the RFC are to shoot you down and the Huns take the photos
    As a German you fly one Albatros, all the rest are AI except you are to help the British 2 seaters line up photo runs starting turn 3. Plot your personal Albi first as usual, then randomly choose a target to photo and plot accordingly for each 2 seater.

  15. #15

    Setarius's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies
    Users Country Flag


    Name
    Dale
    Location
    Kentucky
    Sorties Flown
    1,685
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default

    How many times can the Central Powers have reinforcements to stay 1 Aircraft below Entente?
    Example: if they get two quick boom cards can they bring on two new ones or only one?

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    As a German you fly one Albatros, all the rest are AI except you are to help the British 2 seaters line up photo runs starting turn 3. Plot your personal Albi first as usual, then randomly choose a target to photo and plot accordingly for each 2 seater.
    Gives my Albatross a bit of a heads up as i know the target for each RFC plane


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Setarius View Post
    How many times can the Central Powers have reinforcements to stay 1 Aircraft below Entente?
    Example: if they get two quick boom cards can they bring on two new ones or only one?
    If the CP keep getting shot down they can reinforce to be one less than the Brits, no limit. The Brits can rack up a score if they are lucky!

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Gives my Albatross a bit of a heads up as i know the target for each RFC plane
    You plan your plane's move first. No heads up on where the 2 seaters go as you will then randomly decide what target it will go for after you have plotted your Albatros.
    Honestly help the 2 seaters, you shouldn't fly them into the German guns on purpose.


    If you feel this is not something you want to do then flip the scenario and fly a German photo mission.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    You plan your plane's move first. No heads up on where the 2 seaters go as you will then randomly decide what target it will go for after you have plotted your Albatros.
    Honestly help the 2 seaters, you shouldn't fly them into the German guns on purpose.


    If you feel this is not something you want to do then flip the scenario and fly a German photo mission.
    Is there a specific reason you don't want us to flip the mission as Central players? (like we did in the submarine and Gotha missions)
    Seems counter-intuitive to "help" the Entente and only have one plane to fly.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Is there a specific reason you don't want us to flip the mission as Central players? (like we did in the submarine and Gotha missions)
    Seems counter-intuitive to "help" the Entente and only have one plane to fly.
    The AI isn't set up to play the photo/bombing mission. It won't line up the photographers/bombers on their targets and stay on track. It directs the planes at other enemy planes that are trying to attack them. I don't think it unreasonable to nudge the opposing mission planes to their objectives so there can be an interesting game, otherwise we will only be on the photo/bombing side of these kind of missions.
    I designed this as an historical mission for the last attack after the taking of Passchendaele. The Germans were not in any position at this point to counter attack so as to have a feasable mirror scenario. This mission also connects directly with the next one.
    If this is to difficult to do then flip the scenario, that is easy enough. (Dave will probably stop having me design scenarios! )

  21. #21

    Default

    Im happy to give it a go playing the RFC spotters myself but I will also consider a flip play . Lets see how the croissant crumbles on this one Peter

    As you say AI ing a bomber is a pain But Richard Bradleys original Solo sheets for H&K decks has a To Target and home set of boxes which I have used to good effect previously in the campaign.
    see link http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1770
    Last edited by tikkifriend; 06-02-2016 at 08:47.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  22. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    ...But Richard Bradleys original Solo sheets for H&K decks has a To Target and home set of boxes which I have used to good effect previously in the campaign.
    see link http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1770
    I'm planning to use these for the AI two-seaters.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Im happy to give it a go playing the RFC spotters myself but I will also consider a flip play . Lets see how the croissant crumbles on this one Peter

    As you say AI ing a bomber is a pain But Richard Bradleys original Solo sheets for H&K decks has a To Target and home set of boxes which I have used to good effect previously in the campaign.
    see link http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1770
    I've never seen these. If they work, great! Use them.
    Last edited by Teaticket; 06-02-2016 at 09:37.

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    The AI isn't set up to play the photo/bombing mission. It won't line up the photographers/bombers on their targets and stay on track. It directs the planes at other enemy planes that are trying to attack them...
    In the past I've played it that the two seater's treat the target as an enemy aircraft and they'll fly toward it - you have to fine tune the closing moves - be the I in AI - but it can work. Same with bombers and flying for home. With their rear guns and some 360ness they don't always need to be chasing the enemy but can stay on course/mission.

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    In the past I've played it that the two seater's treat the target as an enemy aircraft and they'll fly toward it - you have to fine tune the closing moves - be the I in AI - but it can work. Same with bombers and flying for home. With their rear guns and some 360ness they don't always need to be chasing the enemy but can stay on course/mission.
    Exactly. A fine tune adjustment is all that is really needed.

  26. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I've never seen these. If they work, great! Use them.
    They do .


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  27. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    In the past I've played it that the two seater's treat the target as an enemy aircraft and they'll fly toward it - you have to fine tune the closing moves - be the I in AI - but it can work. Same with bombers and flying for home. With their rear guns and some 360ness they don't always need to be chasing the enemy but can stay on course/mission.
    That's what I planned to do (using your D8 charts I modified for Excel)

    I just thought it odd that we fly the Entente planes and then will, apparently, get "secret" instructions for them next scenario.

  28. #28

    Setarius's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies
    Users Country Flag


    Name
    Dale
    Location
    Kentucky
    Sorties Flown
    1,685
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default

    I just tried a smaller version of this as a training mission for a 10 yr old that wanted to learn to play. This was our third game, the first two were one on one dogfights. We shot each other down once.
    I gave him the Germans and I took the Entente. I shot his plane down but had a hard time getting lined up for a "good" photo.
    Next step full mission, solo this time.

  29. #29

    Default

    In every solo scenario we fly the opposing side as well as our own. Nothing different here. When the enemy rolls an obviously wrong maneuver that makes no sense I would hope we all correct that. I won't let enemy planes fly off board for no reason just because the rolled maneuver sent them away. So now we have to give the 2 seaters a little help lining up for their photos, whats the big deal?
    What is secret? I'm not sure what you mean here? This mission is for gathering photos. Next mission will use this information to set up what comes next.

    I thought I had clearly written this out. I had my wife read it before posting and she thought it was ok. If this is too difficult or so badly explained, should I re-write the scenario?

  30. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    In every solo scenario we fly the opposing side as well as our own. Nothing different here. When the enemy rolls an obviously wrong maneuver that makes no sense I would hope we all correct that. I won't let enemy planes fly off board for no reason just because the rolled maneuver sent them away. So now we have to give the 2 seaters a little help lining up for their photos, whats the big deal?
    What is secret? I'm not sure what you mean here? This mission is for gathering photos. Next mission will use this information to set up what comes next.

    I thought I had clearly written this out. I had my wife read it before posting and she thought it was ok. If this is too difficult or so badly explained, should I re-write the scenario?
    The scenario is fine Peter. I believe the issue is just that players who are not used to the solo system need a little time and explanation to get their heads around the way it works. Not their fault, the process is just a little different playing solo vs the standard game.

  31. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    ...What is secret? I'm not sure what you mean here? This mission is for gathering photos. Next mission will use this information to set up what comes next...
    Confusion over this aspect of the mission may well be my fault. When Peter and I realized that we were posting the first two missions, I thought linking them would be interesting. Peter agreed, as he was thinking along the lines of a photo recon mission and I wanted to do an artillery-cooperation or bombing mission to kick off the Bitter End campaign. The "secret" part is to give me some flexibility in writing the second scenario and still link it to the outcome of the first... the better the intel gathered in the 1st, the more you have to work with in the second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I thought I had clearly written this out. I had my wife read it before posting and she thought it was ok. If this is too difficult or so badly explained, should I re-write the scenario?
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    The scenario is fine Peter. I believe the issue is just that players who are not used to the solo system need a little time and explanation to get their heads around the way it works. Not their fault, the process is just a little different playing solo vs the standard game.
    I agree with Carl. This is a good scenario.

  32. #32

    Default

    No problem with the scenario Peter. The AARs will be interesting to read from both sides.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  33. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    No problem with the scenario Peter. The AARs will be interesting to read from both sides.
    This is the 4th scenario I have posted. Only once have I had all players fly the same mission, attacking the submarine. That one I thought everyone should have a shot at. I prefer to have each side fly their own side of the mission. I think it is more interesting to see from our pilots eyes both sides of the battle.

  34. #34

    Default

    Sorry if I have opened up a "can of worms" regarding this ...

    Just a little confused about controlling more "enemy" planes than our own when flying from the Central view, rather than having them react to our own moves.

    What I meant by "secret" is that the Entente players will get specific orders based on the photos from this one.
    If, for example, they are given specific targets out of a choice of several possible ones, we Central players will know exactly which ones those are.

    This looks like a very interesting concept - why not have both sides fly their own 2-seaters ?

    I must be misunderstanding how the next scenario will tie in and am reading more into it than I should (thinking of how the Gas, Gas, Gas worked, for example)

    I will fly it as written - I have no problem understanding the way solo rules work.

  35. #35

    Default

    You're not really controlling enemy planes, just helping them where the solo system isn't 100% at getting them to do what they should.

    I think you are trying to look too deep into this. On June 30th you will see how the next scenario is tied into this one.

  36. #36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post

    I think you are trying to look too deep into this. On June 30th you will see how the next scenario is tied into this one.
    Agreed


    I guess I should be looking at it like the "Strafe the Trenches" where I "helped" the Entente destroy 4 of 5 targets .

  37. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I guess I should be looking at it like the "Strafe the Trenches" where I "helped" the Entente destroy 4 of 5 targets .
    Exactly. To make various missions possible and playable we will have to at times help the enemy.

  38. #38

    Default

    It is a classic Western Front mission - Entente operating over Gernan lines conducting forward recon, Germans flying barrier patrols to try and prevent the enemy's reconnaissance aircraft from gathering intelligence on their troop dispositions. Loving it.

  39. #39

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    In every solo scenario we fly the opposing side as well as our own. Nothing different here. When the enemy rolls an obviously wrong maneuver that makes no sense I would hope we all correct that. I won't let enemy planes fly off board for no reason just because the rolled maneuver sent them away. So now we have to give the 2 seaters a little help lining up for their photos, whats the big deal?
    What is secret? I'm not sure what you mean here? This mission is for gathering photos. Next mission will use this information to set up what comes next.

    I thought I had clearly written this out. I had my wife read it before posting and she thought it was ok. If this is too difficult or so badly explained, should I re-write the scenario?
    No problems from my side Peter. Definitely no reason for a re-write.
    Quite straight forward & it looks a good bit of fun to me!

  40. #40

    Default

    Finished off my WGS Attack on the Maastricht Bridges this morning, game table cleared and now set up for this mission. I'll start after work tonight, hopefully finish the battle tomorrow and submit the AAR Monday.

  41. #41

    Default

    This has the makings of a classic game, lets get the job done and see what next month brings !

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  42. #42

    Default

    Dave, it seems on the Bitter End scenario link page for this scenario doesn't have the set up photos. If you could give it a look please? I think it will help as most will go there to find the scenario.

  43. #43

    Default

    Works on mine but I've copied the addresses from the original screen rather than relying on just the cut and paste as that does tend not to carry them over sometimes. Should be OK now, thanks for the heads up.

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  44. #44

    Default

    Thanks Dave, looks good at my end now.

  45. #45

    Default

    Right, now I've finally sorted the printer and got my charts printed I might get to have a go at this mission soon - it's been set up for five days ! Going with 'Harry Tate's' and Camels for escorts.

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  46. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Right, now I've finally sorted the printer and got my charts printed I might get to have a go at this mission soon - it's been set up for five days ! Going with 'Harry Tate's' and Camels for escorts.
    I don't know how long it took Carl but for me from start to finish I must have put in 10 hours! So be warned it has the possibility of taking some time. At least you already have it set up.

  47. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I don't know how long it took Carl but for me from start to finish I must have put in 10 hours! So be warned it has the possibility of taking some time. At least you already have it set up.
    10 hours sounds about right. It took me about 6 hours to play out (no reinforcements) and four hours to sort and post the AAR!

  48. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I don't know how long it took Carl but for me from start to finish I must have put in 10 hours! So be warned it has the possibility of taking some time. At least you already have it set up.
    About average then !
    I often spread play over two or three days and spend a day prepping the AAR.

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  49. #49

    Default

    I remember when I tried my first official scenario I was freaking out about how much time it took
    and then a few of you veterans pointed out you sometimes flew it over more than one sitting and then took another day (or three) to do the pictures and AAR.

    That's when I notice the mistakes ....

  50. #50

    Default

    I have a dedicated gaming table - helps for this sort of thing.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Similar Missions

  1. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-22-2020, 21:20
  2. AAR OTT ED Mission 21---Strafe the Trenches...teaticket
    By Teaticket in forum Over the Trenches
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-30-2016, 20:25
  3. AAR OTTED Mission 22 - The Last Waltz - 17th October 1917...teaticket
    By Teaticket in forum Over the Trenches
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-03-2016, 06:59
  4. AAR OTT ED Mission 20--Unexpected Returns - - teaticket
    By Teaticket in forum Over the Trenches
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-22-2016, 09:10
  5. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-20-2014, 18:49

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •