ZL, ZM and ZJ Decks fpr Pre-War Fighters

**Zoe Brain** · 05-25-2016 04:12

ZJ Deck : For P-26, PzL-11, Dewoitine 510 and all monoplanes with speed 355-400 km/h (173.9 KB) 22 Cards
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1244

ZM Deck ZM Deck : For Hs123, I-15, He51, and all biplanes with speed 305-350 km/h (158.4 KB) 20 Cards
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1243

ZL Deck : The ZL deck for : Fiat CR.32, I-152, Ki-10. For Biplanes with speeds 355-400 km/h (169.5 KB) 22 Cards
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1242

2 ZJ, 1 ZM, and 1 ZL decks together are together 86 cards.

They'd be $13.80 plus postage for a single set from http://www.printerstudio.com/persona...ing-cards.html

Anyone want to volunteer to do 86 lots of cut and pastes?

**Jager** · 05-25-2016 08:27

Hmm...something to think about.
Karl

**Foz** · 05-25-2016 08:42

It's not just cut and pastes either, Printerstudio requires a bleed, so each image would have to be resized correctly.
I do have time though, so I don't mind doing it.
Problem is, if I put them up, I think I have to sell them, making them 10% more expensive, at least. It's a limitation of Printerstudio.
At least it was when I last looked at doing the same with my WGS damage decks.

**Foz** · 05-25-2016 11:16

Yep, as I thought, if I anyone uploads to Printerstudio, the only way someone else can print that design is if it is published for sale, and there is a minimum 10% markup.
I have split the files and added a very basic black bleed, so the files will work with Printerstudio. I can re-up them back here?

**OldGuy59** · 05-25-2016 11:25

Originally Posted by Foz

It's not just cut and pastes either, Printerstudio requires a bleed, so each image would have to be resized correctly.
I do have time though, so I don't mind doing it.
Problem is, if I put them up, I think I have to sell them, making them 10% more expensive, at least. It's a limitation of Printerstudio.
At least it was when I last looked at doing the same with my WGS damage decks.

So, after doing the bleeds, you could post these in the file section? Or, DropBox them?

Redoing the graphics to match might be a bit of work, though. I would think redoing the arrows on a new background might be the way to go, for better appearance. It might be even more work. If Max Headroom was a bit more accessible, we could get his original files, and save a lot of work.

**Foz** · 05-25-2016 11:43

I've re-uploaded them:

ZL: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2296
ZM: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2297
ZJ: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2298

Yep, having the original artwork would be much better. I could also take a few hours and make the bleed with content aware fill in PS to make it tidier, but I've never really had an issue with Printerstudio eating in to the bleed. Of course now, I'll be proven wrong.

**Zoe Brain** · 05-25-2016 20:23

So if I were to get a copy of the files - and on reconsideration ZJ, ZL, 2 x ZM would be better - upload them and were to order 30 sets, I'd be looking at a cost to me of $350 US or thereabouts. Then distribution from Australia - another $2.75 postage worldwide per set. Call it $14.50 USD for a set of 4.

Frankly, a 10% markup is a small price to pay for the lack of hassle. It really depends on the postage.

**Foz** · 05-25-2016 23:50

Originally Posted by Zoe Brain

So if I were to get a copy of the files - and on reconsideration ZJ, ZL, 2 x ZM would be better - upload them and were to order 30 sets, I'd be looking at a cost to me of $350 US or thereabouts. Then distribution from Australia - another $2.75 postage worldwide per set. Call it $14.50 USD for a set of 4.

Frankly, a 10% markup is a small price to pay for the lack of hassle. It really depends on the postage.

Printerstudio used to do free postage over $30, looks like they've stopped it.
Doing a test cart, it came back as $6 shipping to the UK for one set, $14 for three.

**Zoe Brain** · 05-26-2016 22:57

Looks like the best option is for me to do them, order 30 decks, then cost for each set of 4 worldwide would be about $14 USD delivered.Or can someone else do it, I'll pony up the $350 USD printing cost? I'll need to make sure neither Ares nor Andrea have any objections though.

**OldGuy59** · 10-26-2023 11:53

Should I do up MATES II cards for the slow Z decks? They would look like this:

Click image for larger version.

Name: MATES <acronym title=

WGS ZJ CompAVa.jpg Views: 31 Size: 34.4 KB ID: 332329" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

**hokusai** · 10-26-2023 13:26

Originally Posted by OldGuy59

Should I do up MATES II cards for the slow Z decks? They would look like this:

i thought these decks are like standard decks, where the plane moves base + arrow, not the move arrow-only slow decks.

**OldGuy59** · 10-26-2023 18:26

Originally Posted by hokusai

i thought these decks are like standard decks, where the plane moves base + arrow, not the move arrow-only slow decks.

I've looked all over, and can't find anything on the discussion of how to use the Z decks. There were discussions on using existing decks for slow planes (planes that wouldn't move the stand the length of an arrow, because it was too slow). There wouldn't need to be 'Z' decks, if you could just use existing decks normally (ZJ would just be the J deck, without the added tight turns and shallow side-slips).

The 'fix' was to move the stand to the arrow, IIRC. The files mention the planes to be used with the particular 'Z' decks, but nothing on how to use them. That was why I attempted to turn the stand bracket at the end of the lines around, indicating the placement of the stand (front of the stand at the end, not the back of the stand at the end).

**Zoe Brain** · 10-27-2023 01:35

Z decks are used like normal decks. No special rules or different mechanisms needed.

ZJ Deck : For P-26, PzL-11, Dewoitine 510 and all monoplanes with speed 355-400 km/h
ZM Deck ZM Deck : For Hs123, I-15, He51, and all biplanes with speed 305-350 km/h
ZL Deck : The ZL deck for : Fiat CR.32, I-152, Ki-10. For biplanes with speeds 355-400 km/h

Anything slower than 300 km/h you need different mechanics.

ZM is thus the limit.

**flash** · 10-27-2023 02:23

Originally Posted by OldGuy59

..There were discussions on using existing decks for slow planes (planes that wouldn't move the stand the length of an arrow, because it was too slow). There wouldn't need to be 'Z' decks, if you could just use existing decks normally (ZJ would just be the J deck, without the added tight turns and shallow side-slips). The 'fix' was to move the stand to the arrow, IIRC..

Think you recollect correctly, Mike, move the peg to cover the arrow was the solution Zoe suggested for machines with speeds that fall between the Z & existing decks.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-cards-needed)

**Jager** · 10-27-2023 05:59

Originally Posted by flash

Think you recollect correctly, Mike, move the peg to cover the arrow was the solution Zoe suggested for machines with speeds that fall between the Z & existing decks.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-cards-needed)

That's correct. The "Z" qualifier in an unofficial deck is behind the Official deck letter (i.e. A(Z) )
I did this as an acknowledgement to Zoe Brain as the originator of this solution.
A Z deck (ZL, ZM, and ZJ) could also be a Z modified deck (e.g. ZM(Z)), but it would be really slow (37-67mph).

Karl