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Thread: The Future of WGF: Community Thoughts and Brainstorming?

  1. #51

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    I store my models in KR Multicase boxes which go into one of their bags, the bag has pockets for things like the Rulebook, damage decks, rulers and the tackle box in which I store the tokens. For maps use a telescopic art tube such as this https://www.cassart.co.uk/display/po...with_strap.htm

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post

    One thing worth noting: the absolute price of a Wings miniature hasn't changed appreciably from their introduction to now, even with materials costs ever hiher and the value of the US dollar sinking. I can get that they want to try to keep things as affordable as they can, and I'd be no more enthusiastic about it than any of us, but I could easily understand reasons why they might have needed to raise the MSRP a buck or two per plane--actually, the Recovering Business Major in me wonders more why they *haven't,* as maybe if they had they wouldn't be caught in the usual Cash Flow Squeezeplay that plagues "five-man band" enterprises.
    In Sweden price of a single plane has allmost doubled since I started playing. From 75-80:- to 145-165:- for a scout and 95-105:- to 175-200:- (1$ ~ 8 Swedish krona) for a 2-seater. Don't know if it is the gamestores wanting to increase their margins or if it is to do with something else but starting to get pretty expencive to get WoG in Sweden.

  3. #53

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    Some of the first WW1 minis I bought from ebay back in 2013 still had their retail price stickers on the boxes, showing £6.50. Similar minis are now retailing at DOUBLE that, £13 or so.
    Seems we're less lucky that the USA in this area.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  4. #54

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    Or it could be that my memory's shot--for some reason I remember scouts stickering at $10 and tandems $15 US retail first time around. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time and probably won't be the last...
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Or it could be that my memory's shot--for some reason I remember scouts stickering at $10 and tandems $15 US retail first time around. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time and probably won't be the last...
    since the stores been open ive noticed a bit of price creep with each new release or reprint. not a lot maybe $00.50 per plane or so. i dont know if this reflects their costs increasing or them just bumping it up of their own initiative.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by A0S View Post
    I store my models in KR Multicase boxes which go into one of their bags, the bag has pockets for things like the Rulebook, damage decks, rulers and the tackle box in which I store the tokens. For maps use a telescopic art tube such as this https://www.cassart.co.uk/display/po...with_strap.htm
    yeah ive seen that. i also use kr mutlicase and was thrilled to find one of the stores new distributors carries a lot of kr product. theyre so damn expensive though. the case i got was only $20.00 or so. i do plan to eventually get a couple kaiser bags but itll take awhile lol. and then theirs clippers next batch of zeppelins to save for.

    those art tubes look nice but im looking for a side access method of storage to eliminate the hassle of keeping the map rolled up tight enough while putting back in storage. i still might eventually invest in a few of these tubes those as im sure theyll hold up better than the original boxes.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Some of the first WW1 minis I bought from ebay back in 2013 still had their retail price stickers on the boxes, showing £6.50. Similar minis are now retailing at DOUBLE that, £13 or so.
    Seems we're less lucky that the USA in this area.
    Absolutely - when I started retailing Wings Of War, the rrp for a single seater was £6.99, which seemed to increase by a pound with every release for quite a while. Part of that was obviously exhange rate related, as the pound took a beating against the dollar, but the extra padding in the European distribution chain doesn't seem to help. It's been £11.99 for a while now, but I'm at least half expecting another rise this year....

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    How about a bag made for a camera tripod? I don't know if you can buy them separately but people probably sell them on eBay.
    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    those art tubes look nice but im looking for a side access method of storage to eliminate the hassle of keeping the map rolled up tight enough while putting back in storage. i still might eventually invest in a few of these tubes those as im sure theyll hold up better than the original boxes.

  9. #59

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    Golf bag!

    Comes with wheels attached!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  10. #60

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    I picked up one of these:
    http://www.officedepot.com/a/product...age-Box-44-Qt/

    My Giants are in a separate and smaller container. Weather tight, fits my counters, rules and double stacks the trays from the Aerodrome store about 10 plus inches high.

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by A0S View Post
    How about a bag made for a camera tripod? I don't know if you can buy them separately but people probably sell them on eBay.
    that sir, is capitol thinking!!!!!!

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Anybody else who's actually BEEN a Tourney Scene Gamer care to chime in with your horror stories?
    I could, but the sheer volume of Profanity, Blasphemy, and Obscenity required to express my true feelings... well, decorum prohibits.... :P

    As to Marketing: Does it suggest anything that there's a American Civil War minis game maker out there who gives away the rulebook, and only sells minis? Or there's Games Workshop's periodic rebooting of rules, so whichever faction hasn't been selling becomes The New Hotness.

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    I could, but the sheer volume of Profanity, Blasphemy, and Obscenity required to express my true feelings... well, decorum prohibits.... :P
    A great example of why I am torn on Tourneys within Wings of Glory: However what I have to bear in mind is that I have heard about X Wing Tourneys where the verdicts are much the same ... Early on in my Playing Career another more experienced Member spoke some wise words to me: Was I going to let another player of another game colour and cloud my judgement like that? But yet I still measure Close Enough For Government Work whilst playing the game!

    So I attended an X Wing Tourney two weekends ago at Galactic Models: It began with the creation of a pleasant but firm atmosphere of this being about tournament play but amongst a friendly crowd whose hearts were in the right places. I quietly had fun observing and learning more about the World's Most Popular Wargame and observing the stunning standard and precision of play. Whilst there I became engaged in a conversation with as it turned out one of the players before his game about X Wing -> Wings of Glory and the way they relate to one another. Learning more as the result.

    Now back to Wings of Glory - should anybody wish to play me at Tournament Level or Standard then I'd accept their invite without hesitation and with an open mind. However I accept that this will probably happen just before my next passenger-carrying MD-11 sighting / once in a blue moon anyway. Close Enough For Government Work is not only amusing setting games off on the correct footing but does involve playing the game correctly in essence. Though I play Wings of Glory to blow off steam a lot of the time (landing aircraft involves precision ... Often with hundreds of reasons for getting it right strapped to the same expensive piece of kit!) But having said that I am now in the mind where I would like to play a Tourney for the experience and also to add this as another string to my bow / advance my experience level as a player.

    Torn on Tourneys I may be. But as an individual I would prefer to remain open minded about them until I have actually experienced one

  14. #64

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    I already posted my thoughts here so I will keep it short.....think outside the tank...Giant WW1 Tank....nuff said.

  15. #65

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    It won't lend itself to Wings, but one of the things I proposed for Sails on Organized Play brainstorming was to give each participant a "Variant Ship Log" with two additional names and stats for whatever the "Feature Mini of the Month" was. No "Winner/Sportsmanship/GM" like Whizzkids did at the end, an incentive to show up without bringing the cutthroat mercenary players that make the Convention Tourney Scene at places like GenCon such an utter hell. Maybe one per quarter with one or two others for Convention Play participation.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  16. #66

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    Done the tourney scene many times over the last 25 years. WRG ancients, DBA, Flames of War, was a Privateer pressganger for four years and ran the things, and still play Bolt action tourneys.

    That being said, first off we need balancing factors. A set point value using the points elsewhere on this web site, a min/max number of planes (1-3?) and all planes would have to be from the same side.

    Once that was nailed down I could see playing in one and even enjoying myself (provided the boom card was pulled as suggested in the rulebook)

  17. #67

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    I like the campaign books idea very much, think it would be pretty neat to try to take a pilot through the war. I have also always thought the duel packs should have been pursued more aggressively. Do not understand why there weren't more issues of these. In another game I play there for years has been discussion of a desire for a rarities type of issue. Maybe something along these lines would be interesting, also perhaps a 'captured' use issues.

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    Done the tourney scene many times over the last 25 years. WRG ancients, DBA, Flames of War, was a Privateer pressganger for four years and ran the things, and still play Bolt action tourneys.

    That being said, first off we need balancing factors. A set point value using the points elsewhere on this web site, a min/max number of planes (1-3?) and all planes would have to be from the same side.

    Once that was nailed down I could see playing in one and even enjoying myself (provided the boom card was pulled as suggested in the rulebook)
    I have played one Wings tournament with a generally more mature bunch and had a great time. Even with the boom card! It is all about the attitude of the players involved and the spirit of the competition.

    The venue was a great choice as well

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...oG-Competition

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...t-DR-I-vs-DH-5

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...Fighting-Pairs

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...-Team-Dogfight

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...e-Final-Battle

  19. #69


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    I agree that we already have an issue with the collector aspect of the products and I'm totally against any official products that are sold in limited numbers or special packing at special prices so that only the well heeled can afford them. What's so great about this game is the that fact that it took a difficult to wargame period and made it accessible both in terms of game play and by removing the need to be able to make the models in the first place. Anything that smacks of exclusivity, to me, is not in the spirit of the game.

    Of course the SE5s and other models have become ridiculously expensive and I can't see that doing the brand any good. As David pointed out it's not a great selling point to have to tell those new to the game that all these lovely models were available in the past but all that they can immediately hope for is more esoteric planes, with funny wings, at double the price we were paying for such gems as the Schaffer DVII.

    The more I think about it the more I like the notion of boxed sets of five – it's good for the historical angle for folks to be able to field plausible formations and I think they could be cost effective both to buy and for ARES, as they could shift larger numbers of similar models.

    When I started buying in the UK, right from the launch, I was paying £6 per model. With a metal kit costing £4 it was a no brainier. I have been very lucky in being able to buy most of my scouts for about £6 – £8 and load for £3. The only models I've paid over the retail price for are my SE5s but even they were a bargain at the time relative to ebay prices. A typical scout in the UK is about £11 – £12 and I'm now very selective about what I buy. So if a boxed set of five was about £45 I think they'd sell very well. Imagine ready to play J11 triplanes, Jasta 18 Fokker DVIIs, RNAS Camels – those sets would look great and save an awful lot of repainting.
    Last edited by Timmo UK; 05-25-2016 at 03:03.

  20. #70

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    Only played in 1 major tournament, 18th Century WRG.
    First regional game was in Bath and the other 3-4 competitors were no shows so I got a bye to the final in London.

    Game 1 was v George Gush very experienced verteran the conclusion was inevitable (and gave me advice on how to beat his army).
    Game 2 was v M. Nichol, my gaming trainer for this comp from the north east, result.....a draw! (another inevitable).
    Game 3 was v A player using British, the only army that could use horse artillery! (Guess who won the competition?).

    This has not put me off competitions/tourney's.

    1. It needs to be a level playing field.
    2. It needs to be tried and tested.
    3. It needs to be well structured and no ambiguity in the rules.
    4. There must be a time limit on each game.
    5. It needs to be fun.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  21. #71

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    Two large gestures from me ... Carl and Tim you are the recipients

    Carl - the point you advocate about the people you played with making the tourney what they made of it resulting in a pleasant atmosphere and a positive outlook on this subject is something I agree wholeheartedly with. I reckon so long as the true spirit of Wings of Glory (as players we laugh with each other instead of at each other) is observed and effectively combined with tourney rules and conditions that we could pull a tourney of our own off. Next time I am in Brisbane I would love an opportunity to play you to tourney standards with Yell watching: For the experience and as I reckon we would get on fine this would indeed create a far from adverse atmosphere. The aim probably being let's boost all of our outlooks on this subject - Yell's before she has the chance to be coloured the way I almost was by a less than favourable opinion. In general I am aware of the sort of person or conduct which can very quickly generate adverse feeling or an unfavourable aura about tourneys ... But sadly people who think they are above themselves seem to be rife in commercial aviation and I have become very seasoned in dealing with them: To the tune of still being known as Captain Cowell even to this day with a large European Carrier after something which took place in 2010 ...

    Tim - we think very alike ... I have only spoken to you once every so often so Hi (hope you are well.) Though I seriously enjoy the collecting side of both WGF and WGS with all the and WGS-wise I have at least one of every plane available to collect I too take exception when either: Introductory selling prices are ridiculous or arrogant dealers think they are able to inflate prices and get away with it when the collectability factor of increases - as you say making these items the preserve of the few ... Or greed overcomes people when items are in production meaning that those who are only after one or two stand no chance of obtaining their at a sensible price. I tend to avoid auctions on E-Bay which are purely down to luck / auction sniper at times and where items are frequently sold for a high price - Wings of War in particular I have noticed. But my partly-accidental acquisition of a Bader Edition Hawker Hurricane for £7.50 after a friend saw it off the beaten track in Walsall (THANKS RICHARD!) will now serve as my prime-time example of an aircraft I have hunted high and low for as a smaller operator ... Who has to keep a still tongue when confronted with somebody who when Nexus still produced these for the game bought up oodles of Bader Hurricanes and has a whole squadron of them as a result. Explaining why they are so rare to come by in the first place and when you do it's inevitably at a price if looking for one of these now. The Messerschmitt Bf.109E are the next rarest Wings of War aircraft to acquire probably for the very same reasons - but I won one of mine playing a snooker match for it last year. But greed always gets my goat particularly when I know somebody whose either on a budget or is a small operator looking for a single example of each looses out or is losing out.

    Came across an instance of this back in March this year but after that off-piste present from Walsall (collectors' shop on Walstead Road Richard told me) and the Galland Bf.109E out of that snooker match I now have two reasons to focus on where Karma maybe and creativity have intervened in my favour as I grew my collection steadily. Gotta go as my two Avro Vulcans for WGS - more creativity and a looong but funny story - are now late off the ground!

  22. #72

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    Thanks Barney, I will definitely get something going when you are back down this way

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    Tonx – many thanks for the thumbs up!

    Another idea that I'm surprised ARES hasn't tried is either here or on their own website is for polls for upcoming colour schemes. Take the reprint of the Albatros DIII that will be some way off – it's one of those models that there are lots of potential schemes for. They could reprint the best seller then let the potential buyers choose the other two. If one needs to be simple to keep costs down then have two polls say with five options in each. I honestly don't think we could collectively do any worse than ARES in selecting Albatros colours! They often seem to have a dud in the three models of any type that they produce.

  24. #74

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    When I ran _Car Wars_ tournaments, the cars were all pre-generated.

    Were I to run a _WoG_ tourney: Everyone gets the same airplane design. Each players gets as a designated target another player, such that it forms a circle (1 attacks 2; 2 attacks 3; etc., until the last player attacks 1). When one shoots down one's target, one gets one's victim's target as his new target. Last man standing wins. (The targets are there so we can tell who's sandbagging. >:) )

  25. #75

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    You mean "The Assassination Game, WWI Air Minis Edition." We ran one at Enfilade where it was "you and your oppo have the same plane, winner collects point, each of you move on to different plane and opponent next round." I think it's called a Swiss Round system.

    Personally, I'd like to do something like a variant on the Sealed Mission Orders a guy put together for War at Sea where you could be acting like you have one goal but the reality is another, say you're acting like "Bombing Raid" when the real goal is "Write Down Enemy Air Strength." Lots of Browning/Duke Br.14B2s for that one...
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  26. #76


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    Another option would be to have all the players as members of one squadron/jasta each trying to be the top ace. If there are say 12 players in this system you can have a random mission generator which allocates the task and the pilots. The other players who've not been selected for this particular mission then play the opposition for that particular round.

  27. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    You mean "The Assassination Game, WWI Air Minis Edition." We ran one at Enfilade where it was "you and your oppo have the same plane, winner collects point, each of you move on to different plane and opponent next round." I think it's called a Swiss Round system.:D
    Not quite -- yours is 1-on-1; mine has a whole bunch of people fighting it out.

    The fun part is: For the final round, where all the winners of the elimination rounds are gathered for the final scrum, all damage from the previous round is retained.... (Maybe allow each player to remove *one* damage card.... >:) )

  28. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    There are still quite a few "Iconic" Aircraft that need to be done. BE2 c, Sopwith Pup, DH-5, Big Ack, DH-9, Sopwith Dolphin, Morane Parasol & Morane Biplane, Fokker DI, II or III, Pfalz E I, II or III & Taube just off the top of my head.
    Then there are the Seaplanes: Felixstowe, Sopwith Baby, Short Folder & the Hansa Brandenbergs.
    There is about 12 more aircraft missing form your list.

  29. #79

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    How about a three month campaign over periods time around the land battles that of the great war.

  30. #80

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    Interesting thread indeed. I cannot add anything more to the original question, as pretty much every angle seems to have been covered, from our point of view. One way or another I agree with all of the comments and suggestions! But wow! Newcomers kept happy with basic models and rules at low prices. Established enthusiasts kept happy with new mini issues and lots of accessories, plus reprints of difficult to find models from the past. Then there are the collectors, created almost inevitably by shortage of supply. What can Ares offer them or should they be ignored? Has Ares the capacity to keep everyone happy? From the comments on poor retail distribution I doubt it! So which way should they go? Keep us happy with new models or get the basics right for the wider market? Develop entirely new lines or strengthen existing product groups? That's one set of big questions! I sincerely hope they have a very long term future, because their models are superb and the game appealing to a wide audience, if only that audience were aware of the fact and could access the game easily!

  31. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Not quite -- yours is 1-on-1; mine has a whole bunch of people fighting it out.

    The fun part is: For the final round, where all the winners of the elimination rounds are gathered for the final scrum, all damage from the previous round is retained.... (Maybe allow each player to remove *one* damage card.... > )
    "Only the most ruthless and Munchkin-y..."

    Here's the thing... much like how statists view taxes, an Organized Play system needs to be designed to reward behaviors you want to see more of and DIScourage those you want to see LESS of. Which means

    ENCOURAGE:
    • Show up to play.
    • Buy planes.
    • Be a good sport.
    • Keep coming back.


    DISCOURAGE:
    • Powergaming, Munchkinry, and similar behaviors.


    What else to add to these lists?
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  32. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    "Only the most ruthless and Munchkin-y..."

    Here's the thing... much like how statists view taxes, an Organized Play system needs to be designed to reward behaviors you want to see more of and DIScourage those you want to see LESS of. Which means

    ENCOURAGE:
    • Show up to play.
    • Buy planes.
    • Be a good sport.
    • Keep coming back.


    DISCOURAGE:
    • Powergaming, Munchkinry, and similar behaviors.


    What else to add to these lists?
    What do you consider "Powergaming" and "Munchkinry"?

  33. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    What do you consider "Powergaming" and "Munchkinry"?
    A A+B-fireing Fokker EIV

  34. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOP View Post
    A A+B-fireing Fokker EIV
    Fokker E.IV? Haven't see those.

  35. #85

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    To me, if you put the Red Baron in a D.VII, you're a Munchkin.

    https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Powergamer

    The difference, I can grudgingly respect a powergamer's study of the rules. A Munchkin is more like "the rules don't SAY I can't beat you over the head with a foam sword while you're taking your turn so... *whack whack whack*"

    Further reading:
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Munchkin
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ayerArchetypes
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  36. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    Fokker E.IV? Haven't see those.
    It's a plane card in the Nexus "Immelmann" card expansion set.

    An experimental Fokker EIV with three machine guns firing through the propeller arc.

    It never flew in combat in that configuration - ground tests resulted in it shooting off it's own prop, and repeated attempts to synchronise the three guns to the prop all failed, so one of the guns was subsequently removed, resulting in the 'standard' A-firing EIV.
    Some players have used the A-B card in games, and then some have used a mini to represent the A-B EIV in games, to the dismay of other players, who found the plane to be overpowering.

    Shame the same can't be said for the A/B Bristol Fighter released by Ares (Harvey/Waite); a unique plane which flew only one mission, in which the wing-top machine gun was found to skew the trailing-edge compass; so the gun was removed by the pilot/creator of the weapon mount and discarded, resulting in a B/B plane. Numerous players seem quite happy to fly this A/B configuration, despite the almost complete lack of historical usage.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  37. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    To me, if you put the Red Baron in a D.VII, you're a Munchkin.


    I'm not a Munchkin, though.

    Just the creator of a couple of "what-if" minis.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  38. #88

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    Perhaps we also need to fork the game into "Historical" vs. "Alternative" play.

    One of my favorite tricks on other historical games was either give bonus Build Points or bonus score points to "certified pure historical" formations... for example, a German player who came in with no carriers got full historical bonus, come in with one Graf Zeppelin you get half bonus (unfinished but damn close), second GZ or any of the "Schlachtshiff H" designs and you had to play at the more restricting levels... while your historically-playing British opponent could just Avenger Spam you to death.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  39. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    It's a plane card in the Nexus "Immelmann" card expansion set.

    An experimental Fokker EIV with three machine guns firing through the propeller arc.

    It never flew in combat in that configuration - ground tests resulted in it shooting off it's own prop, and repeated attempts to synchronise the three guns to the prop all failed, so one of the guns was subsequently removed, resulting in the 'standard' A-firing EIV.
    Some players have used the A-B card in games, and then some have used a mini to represent the A-B EIV in games, to the dismay of other players, who found the plane to be overpowering.

    Shame the same can't be said for the A/B Bristol Fighter released by Ares (Harvey/Waite); a unique plane which flew only one mission, in which the wing-top machine gun was found to skew the trailing-edge compass; so the gun was removed by the pilot/creator of the weapon mount and discarded, resulting in a B/B plane. Numerous players seem quite happy to fly this A/B configuration, despite the almost complete lack of historical usage.
    Thanks. I didn't know about the E.IV. But... I own both the Harvey/Waight and Headlam/Beaton Bristols. One A/B, the other B/A respectively. I purchased both without any knowledge of history or the accompanying 'Munchkin'. I just got them and I don't think I need a third Bristol so I guess I could just say the plane is a B/B. I originally had the Headlam/Beaton but got the Harvey/Waight solely because the gun on the top wing looked cool. Yes it's true; I liked the looks. So much for history.
    Last edited by Ken at Sunrise; 06-01-2016 at 06:46.

  40. #90

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    In a What-If game, you could possibly say "they figured out how to de-conflict the gun and compass".

    In my ideal system, we shouldn't punish those who aren't "all WWI all the time eat-sleep-breathe it", but we should strive for a good blend of fun and educational. Maybe have an event focus on two planes (say Sopwith Camel vs. Fokker Dr.I) and their relative strengths/weaknesses, then a few games where the players switch planes in between so if your last round was a Camel, your current is a Dr.I and next is back to Camel.

    Two-seaters, you play one "seat" or the other, every other plane switch you also switch roles with another player who's your "crewmate."
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  41. #91

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    It may take one year, it may take five, but eventually you'll be able to order a full-color, robust 3D print of almost any plane that saw significant use. When that happens, questions about print-runs disappear. Questions about inventory and distribution disappear. You want an SE5a, or thirty of them? No problem... you may even be able to order them, wait an hour, and go pick them up from your local 3D print shop, or have them delivered. Collectability becomes a quaint relic like a phone booth.

    That changes the landscape quite a bit. Does Ares just become a Shapeways vendor? Or do they make all their money off card decks? What do you stock in a game shop to attract new players, just a starter kit? Do games that use historical models (which are hard to copyright) fall to the wayside, replaced by easily-copyrighted "steampunk WWI aeroplanes" where the vendor can still charge a big premium on the models?

    I'm not sure what things will look like in a few years, but I'm sure it will be very different than today.

  42. #92

    Dom S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post


    I'm not a Munchkin, though.

    Just the creator of a couple of "what-if" minis.
    You're excused on the grounds that you've probably done all of the historical D.VII pilots and therefore had to start on the what-ifs....

  43. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post


    I'm not a Munchkin, though.

    Just the creator of a couple of "what-if" minis.
    i think thats more of a "what if" because had he survived long enough he most certainly, without a doubt, wouldve been issued a fokker DVII.

  44. #94

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    I still think in order for the game to grow, or even just maintain existance other then on the old games shelf they MUST keep a ready supply of sculpts avalible for purchase. As it is, every release becomes limited and you can not find them quickly. Stack that with long times between reprints and the flagship aircraft long out of print (SE5a, DH 2, Nieu 23, ect) and you have dead game as new players can not buy in.

    You have 2 plane starter sets but can not find them, and box sets with rules but no planes avalible. They need to quickly (as in not in a year or so) reprint the 2 plane sets and get them out, maybe have another run of the 4 plane starter sets, and spam the basic aircraft from both sides in unit packs just to feed the masses. Collectable 4 plane releases once a year are great but it limits growth of the game.

    From sales point of view, every time new planes come out the collectors buy one of each and stop once their sets are full. Players will buy what interests them and then stop. New players buy whatever they can find to fill out air fleets and get into the game (). Also a new campaign type box set needs to be released, maybe with 4 early war aircraft (need not be new sculpts). Give the players something other then one off fights to play and fodder for the club weekly games. New box could also include vehicle target counters (trucks), building targets, and assorted other props with rules to take advantage of them. Also needed is a link between missions with a chart for survival when planes get shot down (know they are here somewhere but not every one uses this site). I.E. give them something to bring em back to the table every week.

    As for aircraft, I am still leaning towards mass produced basic paint job squadron boxes while the fancy Ace paint job releases can stick to the once a year schedule. And for heavens sake reprint the old series quicker so newer players do not get burned out trying to buy hard to find aircraft at 5 times the basic cost. Every time the players buy a shapeways 3D printed aircraft or 3rd party flight stands and print their own maneuver cards the designers lose money. Unfortunatly I have a hard time feeling sorry for them when that is the only choice players have.

    Not trying to be harsh here, just needed to get a point accross.

  45. #95

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    Getting the starter box back out with 4 all new paintschemes is essential. Great for new players and us old hands. Running more of the 2 plane duel packs with different rotating models (SE5 v. D.VII, etc) would be great as well.

  46. #96

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    It's been an intense discussion here.
    Very intersting ideas about the future of the game.
    In my opinion there are some principle ideas that should be take into account by the publisher if WoG is to hit the shelves into full force.

    1. Constant availability of WGF/WGA Starter Sets (with - optional - different sets of planes). It is essential. No RAPs, no Duel Packs will do.
    2. Tournament Rules. Last month I attended a X-Wing Open Series event in Warsaw (one of the 8 places in the world: Battle of Endor). It was a great event with lots of friendly players. Although my squadrons were beaten black and blue I brought back some fine ideas for WoG Tournament options, like Hangar Bay pre-battle event. I promise to write more when time allows. They are easy to adopt in WoG, even without any Point System, believe me.
    3. Constant availability of (maybe not all) miniatures at reasonable prices. That would call for a kind of maybe - lower detailed but easier to product - figurines. Moreover - for WGS - a well thought choice of planes to publish (arghhhhh... those Lancs).
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  47. #97

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    As someone fairly new to the game I thought I might add a couple of pence to the debate.
    Having seen the game played a few times and watched a few online videos I took the plunge and purchased a Rules pack with 4 'starter' planes for what I thought was a reasonable amount about a year ago. Thus far regarding the current game I have sort of stuck at that point and supplemented that with just a couple of attractive planes that caught my eye and a set of original WoW box sets which I almost prefer as I can fly a variety of scenarios easily.

    What would push me to the next level?
    As a late starter I quickly rejected the 'get one of each' mentality that I might normally have followed. The riot of alternative aircraft and/or same aircraft in different colours actually makes it more difficult for me to select a next purchase. Too much choice of planes I don't want or paintjobs that don't inspire. Very few planes I recognise having only a passing knowledge of WW1 aircraft although I have learnt some from this activity.
    I would probably be interested in:
    Reprints of the more popular planes. Perhaps supplied with a generic paint and insignia that could be differentiated with the application of a selection of appropriate waterslide decals supplied in the box.
    Character planes if there was more information about the character supplied on the outside of the box or perhaps a card on the inside. A box with a window at the rear could reveal the card inside the box to keep the boxes generic.
    Possibly a squadron set either as generic above or a set from an identified squadron.
    Manoeuvre deck sets that will allow me to add to my squadron without having to search out the few official aircraft that might be around.

    The generic/popular aircraft and deck sets should be always available to allow introduction and recent players to add to their base sets easily and encourage further activity. Based upon WGF the SE5 must have been the rarest machine in the air over the trenches.

    This is all based on WGF. My son is keen to look at WGS but thus far the aircraft availability seems to be limited similarly to WGF.

    Overall Wings of Glory does appear to be a game for collectors not a collection for gamers.
    Last edited by SeaJaySee; 05-31-2016 at 08:35. Reason: Spelling

  48. #98

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    OOPs. duplicate post??
    Last edited by SeaJaySee; 05-31-2016 at 08:11. Reason: Duplicated

  49. #99


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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaJaySee View Post
    Overall Wings of Glory does appear to be a game for collectors not a collection for gamers.
    This exactly, and it's such a shame.

    I think ARES might be a little deflated by that acute observation from somebody new to the game.

  50. #100

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    Of course every time we clamour for new planes, we make that worse.... The capital available for Wings print runs is obviously finite to say the least, and every new series of increasingly obscure new models comes at the expense of a reprint for the kind of staples that new players need.

    Ares failure so far to reorganise what's in the Nexus-era series has exacerbated that, but the problem was always on the cards. Ultimately keeping everything available requires the kind of inventory level that just isn't feasible, so there's a difficult balancing act to do between reprints and new products. I increasingly suspect that the game's future may depend on what the next release is after series 9.... (A series 3 reprint, but with new tooling, would be the nightmare scenario imo - if they have the Nexus era moulds, series 4 before 3 would be sensible, and if they're cutting new moulds I *really* hope they consider combining the S3 and S4 scouts into a hybrid set....)
    Last edited by Dom S; 05-31-2016 at 10:20.

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