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Thread: Communication between players and doctrine

  1. #1

    Default Communication between players and doctrine

    When it comes to communication between players, I've already allowed hand signals (actually made by the players to each other) with friendly aircraft who's bases are overlapping. (It was a bunch of gesturing to the left, to avoid a collision. He ignored it.) I can also see 2-4 pre-arranged signals using Vary guns, which can't be discussed during the game, and of course are completely unenforceable.

    In real life, some early WWII aircraft with poor radios would sometimes use aerobatics to communicate. (Apparently the radios on the Zero's at Midway were so poor that what passes for "fighter direction" consisted on cruisers firing shells into the sea in the direction of oncoming attacks, hoping the hundred-odd foot columns of water would get their attention. At the time of the critical dive bomber attack, fully half the CAP was absorbed trying to shoot down Thatch's flight of 3 wildcats, rather than leaving 3-4 planes there while the rest resumed patrol.)

    In game, I could see "wiggling the wings" as requiring a straight? maneuver, with one pre-arranged signal (you would announce what you're doing what you play the card).

    Another alternative that would help is the real world concept of doctrine. Basically it's a pre-agreed set of what players will do in certain circumstances. For example, in an overlapping base scenario, if both planes have no climb counters, the overtaking plane will do a climb as its next move. If both planes have climb counters, perhaps the plane at one less than it's rate of climb will do a climb. If both planes are one less, than the plane with the faster climb (or failing that, the leading plane) will do a dive. Alternately, it could be that that the leading aircraft will never do a climb, and the overtaking aircraft will never do a dive, or that the lead aircraft will never change altitude, for simpler versions. You can't talk about it once the game starts, but if both players remember it, in this case it could prevent a collision. It's completely unenforceable, but if the players agree, remember and follow through, it could give them a major advantage.

  2. #2

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    Having read a couple of books (and written a term paper on) age of sail signaling developments, and looking at the flare gun houserules, it's theoretically possible to make 20? signals by using 2 of 5 of the flare colors together. it's also going to be in an almost unusable format, judging by historical examples of such signaling systems. My system would use 4 colors as signals, and a 5th color as a qualifier. A qualifier changes the meaning of another signal. If for example, red is the qualifier, and blue means "form up," then just blue would mean "form up (to my right)," while blue with red would mean "form up (to my left)."

    I'd use one qualifier, 2 signals with simple meanings, with details provided by the qualifier (such as left or right, and 2 signals for pre-arranged plans, with the qualifier each switching between a pair of plans (preferably similar ones, so that missing the qualifier wouldn't cause too much disruption).

  3. #3

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    I can immediately see how this matter applies to BOTH versions of the game as transferrable. I also cannot recall seeing it addressed before - this is bound to prompt a good discussion!

    So bearing this in mind I'll blow my cover on why I'm sometimes seen fiddling with my nose during games of WGS: Tactical signals to the Wife when she is playing too as to how best to stay in one piece. Even if I have been shot down and am out she knows what she is looking for and that I'm relatively well versed on real life tactics. I even have a gesture for TURN INSIDE HIS TURNING ARC when I feel this is the solution. I was asked once what I was doing and being a pilot the escape route is easy: Training Sitch abroad - not been back long - synthetic environment of the cabin (unless you are travelling on a Airbus A380 / A350) usually messes with your synuses ... Lasts as long as jetlag does ... Remember to fiddle briefly with nose after saying this of course!

    Let us hope that the OFC (Oil Flying Corps est 2016) now gets some training assignments abroad or I will be up the creek without a paddle trying this again!

    Other than this I have not been required to communicate ship-ship / player-player during a game ... Yet. This raises the question as to when the measures or gestures used would be established between players and if it is immediately before the game is everyone likely to remember and recognise which gesture is being directed at them / significance? The Wife and I established our unique communication method months ago now and remind ourselves of it before every event we play at.

    Thing is ... I can also picture some looking at this thread and thinking Keep Mum ... She's not so dumb / Best way to defend ... Is to do so quietly. They may therefore not want to reveal the secret of their success ...

    WRT wiggling the wings - yes I agree so that the manoeuver can be distinguished effectively by whoever it is aimed at. but how exactly do you wing-rock in the game without using slalom cards / turning left and then right repeatedly. The actual wing-rock is performed around the X or Axis which runs horizontally front to back using the ailerons. Before an actual turn can be induced and would need usage of the rudder to stay co-ordinated the opposite wing is raised to the same extent: Reverse when applicable. The most common wing-rock I am aware of is two in sequence / Enter straight and level -> Left-Right-Left-Right -> Exit straight and level to signify that the pilot of an aircraft has sighted whoever this was aimed at. There is a three in sequence wing-rock but I am not exactly sure what this signifies: I think it is to do with an aircraft experiencing radio failure.

    Thank you for starting this thread: Likely to get interesting

  4. #4

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    Here's a workable in-game system I came up with:

    flare colors:
    green - focus on bombers
    green + red - attempt/form up for head on pass on bombers
    green + white - attempt/form up for tailing on pass on bombers
    red - attack
    red + yellow - focus on fighters
    white: (by anybody) - cover/protect me
    white + yellow -form up
    blue - (by anybody) - am disengaging
    blue + yellow (by flight leader) - all aircraft disengage/abort mission

    Some of the colors have been changed to reduce what would be the chance of mistakes in real life, such as between blue and green and especially between yellow and white (I'd imagine they could be relatively easily mistaken.) That's why there's no green + yellow for bombers, even though it would make sense, because mistaking green for blue would greatly change the meaning. White plus yellow is a terrible combination, but at least it has a similar meaning to white alone. Really, "form up" should be white + blue, while "head home" should be something clear, such as blue + red, but compromises were made to simplify the system. Also, I tried to keep the two meanings for each color similar, something desirable in both real life and the game. It would also make sense to swap white and blue, but again that would require adding a non-standard second color.

  5. #5

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    Have a look at this thread. http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ight=Flare+gun

    Firing two flares would take some time because the flare gun would have to be reloaded.

  6. #6

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    Don't forget the 'Tailing' rule can apply to an ally as well as an enemy. Assign a flight leader and fly behind them in a tailing position so they can show you their card before it is played. If necessary you can use another of your cards to avoid an embarrassing collision.

  7. #7

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    If a lost student pilot can figure out how to communicate with an F-15E Strike Eagle from Seymour-Johnson AFB when they were intercepted by using a pen / piece of paper and Morse Code then I am sure we can figure this one out together.

    Trust me being struck by lightning in a Cessna 172P is no fun ... But you never leave the ground without a pen and paper: Write DOT on one side and DASH on the other and remember AVIATE ... NAVIGATE ... COMMUNICATE at the same time!

    Pleased to say that the F-15E actually made Jai Moore's day rather than scared him ... He won a Flight School award for Initiative in Aviation and is now a Captain with Delta Airlines.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    Don't forget the 'Tailing' rule can apply to an ally as well as an enemy. Assign a flight leader and fly behind them in a tailing position so they can show you their card before it is played. If necessary you can use another of your cards to avoid an embarrassing collision.
    That was new to me...

    Need to study the rules.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonx View Post
    If a lost student pilot can figure out how to communicate with an F-15E Strike Eagle from Seymour-Johnson AFB when they were intercepted by using a pen / piece of paper and Morse Code then I am sure we can figure this one out together.

    Trust me being struck by lightning in a Cessna 172P is no fun ... But you never leave the ground without a pen and paper: Write DOT on one side and DASH on the other and remember AVIATE ... NAVIGATE ... COMMUNICATE at the same time!

    Pleased to say that the F-15E actually made Jai Moore's day rather than scared him ... He won a Flight School award for Initiative in Aviation and is now a Captain with Delta Airlines.
    Works, but waayy to time consuming for combat. Would have to be very close as well. Also issues with holding up the piece of paper in the 100 mph slipstream. Assuming it doesn't blow away (a problem when passing notes from pilot to observer), it would just crumple up in the pilot's hand, rather than stay straight enough to read. On a thin board, though, it might work outside of combat. Flares are visible at a much greater distance, and also more obvious (meaning that it's less likely to be missed).

    In another thread, someone came up with the idea of placing the flare signal on the aircraft base without comment, making it possible to miss it completely, which seems to be a good idea. Requiring the player to memorize it might be a little too much, since the real pilots would have gone over it enough to remember simple signals. Most of the time, anyway.

  10. #10

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    It his short story 'The Zone Call' found in the book 'Biggles Pioneer Air Fighter', Captain W.E. Johns describes how Biggles flies alongside an artillery observation R.E.8 and signals in Morse code by waving his hand over his head. He sent the message "Zone Call, Wood" and then pointed at a wood. The R.E.8 then radioed the message to the ground.

    A Zone Call was a special request from an aircraft to artillery for every weapon in range to begin rapid fire on the designated target. It was only used in exceptional circumstances because it was frightfully expensive.

    Biggles had spotted a large body of German troops hiding in the wood preparing for an attack.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    Don't forget the 'Tailing' rule can apply to an ally as well as an enemy. Assign a flight leader and fly behind them in a tailing position so they can show you their card before it is played. If necessary you can use another of your cards to avoid an embarrassing collision.
    Well stuff my old boots.. Really ? I must admit to not realizing this was the case. i too must re- read that rule

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boney10 View Post
    Well stuff my old boots.. Really ? I must admit to not realizing this was the case. i too must re- read that rule
    There is an old, old thread on this, Andrea confirmed this interpretation at the time.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    Don't forget the 'Tailing' rule can apply to an ally as well as an enemy. Assign a flight leader and fly behind them in a tailing position so they can show you their card before it is played. If necessary you can use another of your cards to avoid an embarrassing collision.
    Embarrassing collisions? I relatively new, and I tend to collide a lot. I also had a game where I was controlling two aircraft, and managed to have them collide twice in the same turn. (To be fair, they were both trying to gang up on a bomber for a tailing pass, so they more or less wanted to be in the same place at the same time.)



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