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Thread: Question on measuring range and blind spots

  1. #1

    Default Question on measuring range and blind spots

    Two quick but related questions:
    First, is range measured from center peg of the firing aircraft to any point on the base of the target aircraft, or from any point on the base of the firing aircraft to any point on the base of the target aircraft? I think it's the former, but if that's the case, then it's really hard to get within short range, as the bases have to be nearly touching. Second, blind spots for rear guns only apply at short range, right? With the two rules combined, it makes it really hard to get within the blind spot, since it's so hard to get within short range anyway (even against a bomber).

  2. #2

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    Range is measured from the center peg to any point on the enemy base within arc. You will be surprised how often that there will be close range fire.
    Correct, blind spot is just at close range. Getting into the blind spot is very tough vs 2 seaters but can be done against larger bombers. Getting it right is tough as you want to be there and tailing during the plotting phase.

  3. #3

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    Some players make it even more difficult/skilful by playing their shooting from peg to peg!
    This is a 'house rule' and is not presented in the Rulebooks
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  4. #4

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    Firing 'peg to peg' is impractical when using planes mounted on the larger sized bases.

  5. #5

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    All my solo gaming is peg to peg, not a problem for scouts and two seaters but, as David says, it doesn't work well with the larger 'bomber' bases so I use peg to base for shooting at them. Well, they are big targets ! And as they have 'firing points' for gunners I use point to peg for their fire. I use the blind spot rule as is but don't use tailing. Worked out fine for me so far.

    "He is wise who watches"

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Some players make it even more difficult/skilful by playing their shooting from peg to peg!
    This is a 'house rule' and is not presented in the Rulebooks
    In my 'house rules' I use peg to base. BUT, for fixed forward firing machine guns, the peg must be WITHIN the forward firing arc. Observers, on the other hand, may hit if any portion of the opponent's base is within it arc, as per the rules.

    I also allow vertical fire for overlapping planes when the lower plane has upper wing mounted machine guns (typical of Billy Bishop's favorite tactic), as well as observers. This may help with your 'blind spot' issues.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by BellMW54 View Post
    In my 'house rules' I use peg to base. BUT, for fixed forward firing machine guns, the peg must be WITHIN the forward firing arc. Observers, on the other hand, may hit if any portion of the opponent's base is within it arc, as per the rules.

    I also allow vertical fire for overlapping planes when the lower plane has upper wing mounted machine guns (typical of Billy Bishop's favorite tactic), as well as observers. This may help with your 'blind spot' issues.
    Needless to say, in cases of overlap, the planes are at different elevations! Sorry ... I should have prefaced my comment by stating I use the 'altitude' rules!!

  8. #8

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    I have a related question. Not sure if I should start a new thread.

    I have had a few occasions where I measure from a bomber like the He111 dot of the gun being used to the base of a fighter and will have a shot. But when I measure from the peg of the fighter to the bomber it doesn't touch the base. There should be a rule reciprocity. Unless the guns are being giving different range capabilities and I don't see any reference toward that.
    Has anyone else have this occur and if so how did you resolve it?

  9. #9

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    As the official rules stand there is nothing you can do about that problem, Michael, except to close in more quickly or attack the bomber from a different direction. If you are playing at your home, you could of course introduce your own 'house rule'.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Joe View Post
    ...Has anyone else have this occur and if so how did you resolve it?
    Those small areas in the firing arcs of some bombers are well-known. You point at the bomber, can't fire at him, but the bomber's get's you.

    But you have some backward situations, too. Your scout/fighter reaches the bomber's base, but the bomber's gunner does not get you.



    Those areas in the firing arcs of some planes have a limited space. To get there by your flying abilities/maneuvers is very challenging but you have those situations again & again.



    Won't call it problems.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Joe View Post
    I have a related question. Not sure if I should start a new thread.

    I have had a few occasions where I measure from a bomber like the He111 dot of the gun being used to the base of a fighter and will have a shot. But when I measure from the peg of the fighter to the bomber it doesn't touch the base. There should be a rule reciprocity. Unless the guns are being giving different range capabilities and I don't see any reference toward that.
    Has anyone else have this occur and if so how did you resolve it?
    It has been discussed before Michael & is a fairly common occurrence where bombers are involved, as David said you can either suck it up or house rule reciprocity as you like. It's not in the rules but they probably came before the issue was found out.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    The house rule I had considered was for planes that do have a dot for reference to use the red arc between the field of fire lines instead of the peg. It my not solve every situation but it would make those situations much less.

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    Thanks for all the info. Glad to see that this has been encountered by others and discussed.

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    I have had a few occasions where I measure from a bomber like the He111 dot of the gun being used to the base of a fighter and will have a shot. But when I measure from the peg of the fighter to the bomber it doesn't touch the base. There should be a rule reciprocity. Unless the guns are being giving different range capabilities and I don't see any reference toward that.
    Has anyone else have this occur and if so how did you resolve it?

    Has anyone else come up with a house rule to address this issue?

    Looking to hear other's opinions.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Joe View Post
    I have had a few occasions where I measure from a bomber like the He111 dot of the gun being used to the base of a fighter and will have a shot. But when I measure from the peg of the fighter to the bomber it doesn't touch the base. There should be a rule reciprocity.
    I don't play the WWII version. But if there is only one range ruler being used. How could it from from A to B without also reaching from B to A, unless it is out of arc?

    Can you take a picture and post it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    I don't play the WWII version. But if there is only one range ruler being used. How could it from from A to B without also reaching from B to A, unless it is out of arc?

    Can you take a picture and post it?
    If you have any WWI bombers, Gotha, Handley Page or Staaken, you will have the same issue.

    There are dots to measure from on them but you measure from the peg on the others. You will have situations that when measuring from the dot you can touch part of the base on the fighter. But when you measure from the peg of the fighter you can't touch the base of the bomber.

  17. #17

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    Indeed it is true Ken, some MG post dots are nearer to the edge of the bomber base than the central peg of a flight stand of a scout - the difference is the amount you miss by if a scout or score by if a bomber !

    "He is wise who watches"

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Joe View Post
    If you have any WWI bombers, Gotha, Handley Page or Staaken, you will have the same issue.

    There are dots to measure from on them but you measure from the peg on the others. You will have situations that when measuring from the dot you can touch part of the base on the fighter. But when you measure from the peg of the fighter you can't touch the base of the bomber.
    Quite simply Ken. As the scale of the aircraft are not the same as the measuring scale I take your attitude. If the bomber can hit you with that particular gun then if he is in arc you can hit him.
    Simples!

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Indeed it is true Ken, some MG post dots are nearer to the edge of the bomber base than the central peg of a flight stand of a scout - the difference is the amount you miss by if a scout or score by if a bomber !
    I see now. Thank you. I wonder how often that happens, but regardless is it okay to happen? Any justification?

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    It has happened to me in almost each battle when involving a bomber at least once.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    I see now. Thank you. I wonder how often that happens, but regardless is it okay to happen? Any justification?
    It happens, how often, who can say. I've encountered it a few times, others have too.
    By the rules, if the ruler doesn't touch the base a gun cannot hit so it's rather up to you in this situation, you either let it happen, or, you don't ! It really is as simple as that. Personally I go with it & put it down to ballistics !

    "He is wise who watches"

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Personally I go with it & put it down to ballistics !
    Cool, thanks.



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