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Thread: Best way to shoort down heavy bombers?

  1. #1

    Default Best way to shoort down heavy bombers?

    I'm pretty much stuck on coming up with ways to shoot down an A/A 0/400 or a Stakken. We've been learning the game by playing a bunch of 'gang up on the random movement bomber" group games, and versus the Gotha and Caproni, the best we've been able to come up with is either closing with one fighter, taking hits but relying on A guns versus a single B to get the better end of the deal, or alternately a fortunate pairing up of two fighters closing from the rear. (We would have gotten 3 turns of firing off had the third player not gotten stuck trying to get out from overlapping the Caproni's base. At least his rear gun had jammed, otherwise we would have gotten shot up badly.) Against an A/A 0/400, though, both aircraft have the same guns and a fighter would only be good for one or two passes before being shot down, or so low on hitpoints it has to break off. A gang up would likely work, but is hard to pull off.

    Against a stakken, from head on a single fighter pass would work, but you'd only get 1-2 turns of firing. From the rear, the 4 machine guns would rip into even two fighters, and a single fighter would simply get shot down.

    What we have been able to determine is to have climb counters when the bomber doesn't, in order to not collide, preferably 1 less than needed for another altitude, so if you get shot up, a single climb will put you out of trouble. I tired that against a Caproni with a S-S D. III, and it would have worked better had I not managed to overshoot and get stuck overlapping the bomber's base, combined with annoying turns from the bomber making it hard to get out from under it.

  2. #2

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    No easy way, you do need to act in concert with others so the gunners spread the love but you still need the war games gods on your side to drop explosions, fire, jams & crew damage upon them before they do it to you !

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #3

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    Every powered aircraft from the Wright Flyer to the latest Airbus A350-900 has at least one blind spot somewhere. I remember around three months ago when the WGF Biggies were released there was talk of who would be the first to bring down a Zeppelin Staaken in particular. As far as I am aware this has been accomplished a few times: One of these being a card model Staaken in the days before Ares Games released these two gigantically impressive behemoths. Not sure who told me - I think it was a member of UK Wing. The two Staaken downings which stick in my mind though happened in the US and one of them involved a head-on Airco DH.4 onslaught.

    When I get my first WGF Biggies over the next five days the first thing I will be investigating is where the blind spots are both visually and in terms of defence. Definitely not an easy task though as mentioned previously and I wish you luck with this idea

  4. #4

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    "Get in front, and chew it up."

    First: make sure you have the right amount of HP and firepower -- one B-deck fighter is not going to get it done. As a general rule: I try to have as many HP and guns in my defending fighters as the heavy has; if I have to go in shorthanded, I lose HP, rather than guns. Dealing hits is paramount.

    Second: Under absolutely *NO* circumstances come in from behind, esp. not with the Staaken. Look at the gun mounts -- do the math.

    Third: Take a page from the war which hadn't happened yet, and come in from *below*. Most heavy guns can aim above its level; few can hit below.

    Minimize his ability to hit you; maximize your ability to hit him. For a particularly nasty option: Get some two-seaters with A-deck rear guns, and get in below and ahead; he hits with a single B-deck (or maybe a single-A for the 0/400), while you're hitting him with 2-3 A-deck shots.

    " o/~ Follow these steps and pretty soon you will say/ It's easy, mmm'kay? o/~ " :)

  5. #5

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    as others have said, theres no easy way other than getting lucky and dealing the boom card. against most bombers the faster, higher performance aircraft are their own worst enemy as they can only maintain firing postion for about a third of the time the bomber can shoot at them. so i prefer somewhat slower aircraft or something like the fokker D7 with its propeller hangs to try to stay behind a bomber in its blind spot if possible. another tactic is to use an A rear gun armed 2 seater and try to stay in the bombers wing blind spot if possible. with the staaken all bets are off because of its massive rear armament. really the only thing to do is paired frontal passes peeling off to the sides to create as much range between ones self and the rear gunners as fast as possible.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    "Get in front, and chew it up."

    First: make sure you have the right amount of HP and firepower -- one B-deck fighter is not going to get it done. As a general rule: I try to have as many HP and guns in my defending fighters as the heavy has; if I have to go in shorthanded, I lose HP, rather than guns. Dealing hits is paramount.

    Second: Under absolutely *NO* circumstances come in from behind, esp. not with the Staaken. Look at the gun mounts -- do the math.

    Third: Take a page from the war which hadn't happened yet, and come in from *below*. Most heavy guns can aim above its level; few can hit below.

    Minimize his ability to hit you; maximize your ability to hit him. For a particularly nasty option: Get some two-seaters with A-deck rear guns, and get in below and ahead; he hits with a single B-deck (or maybe a single-A for the 0/400), while you're hitting him with 2-3 A-deck shots.

    " o/~ Follow these steps and pretty soon you will say/ It's easy, mmm'kay? o/~ "
    Err, according to the rule's I've read, nearly every gun can fire at targets below, as long as they're not in the blind spot. Additionally, since you have to be within short range to get a long range shot if there is an altitude difference, it would be pretty hard to actually get to shoot at all. Also, against targets below, the bomber will get +1 damage, although aim would tend to do that anyway. I've also found it quite difficult to get within a bomber's blind spot at close range (where it applies), even against bombers using the random movement rules. Definitely agree on swarming with superior numbers, although hard to coordinate between multiple players.

  7. #7

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    Windy Jack and I flew a mission last night where I had an HP0/400 escorted by a Bristol against a submarine that was tied up alongside a wharf. It was defended by 3 a firing machine guns, one Albatros DIII with a B gun and a UFAG with an A/B setup. We also used a couple of special rules. Fire damage for the HP would result in drawing two A cards instead of one at the start of each movement set, and an explosion card would cause half damage points for the plane (15). The escorting Bristol made a tactical error and immelmaned too early thus not playing much of a defensive role at all. The HP was pretty damaged by the time the target was reached having drawn a fire card and been hit by both defending planes and at least two of the machine guns several times. nevertheless It still managed to kill the submarine. The Fun bit was trying to turn the thing arouind and get home. An explosion card caused a further 15 points of damage and a a firing exchange by frontal attack from the Albatros finally shot it down. My "escort" meanwhile spent valuable time killing two of the machine guns instead of flying escort. He ended the game with 7 damage points against him and a wounded pilot, 8 damage points of life left. I think both the defending planes had 7 damage points to live between them both at the end of the game which made the scoring side of it pretty even. It was a good game but did not answer the question of how to knock the HP down quickly before it can achieve mission objectives. Kamikaze maybe

  8. #8

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    The only way to positively kill the giants and to level the playing field is to play with altitude. Take them from below, in front or behind but within the blindspot.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by BraselC5048 View Post
    Err, according to the rule's I've read, nearly every gun can fire at targets below, as long as they're not in the blind spot.
    Only above; level or below, targets have to be in arc. (Explain to me exactly how the guns mounted atop the upper wings are going to be able to target anything ahead-of and below the airplane without shooting through the wing.)

    Quote Originally Posted by BraselC5048 View Post
    Additionally, since you have to be within short range to get a long range shot if there is an altitude difference, it would be pretty hard to actually get to shoot at all.
    It's possible. Also, it applies both way -- if you're at "long" range, so is the bomber.

    Quote Originally Posted by BraselC5048 View Post
    Also, against targets below, the bomber will get +1 damage, although aim would tend to do that anyway.
    Never heard of this -- where is it in the rulebook?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BraselC5048 View Post
    Also, against targets below, the bomber will get +1 damage, although aim would tend to do that anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Never heard of this -- where is it in the rulebook?
    Was this answered?



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