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Thread: OTT ED Mission 19: Escorting Trouble - July 17th 1917

  1. #1

    Default OTT ED Mission 19: Escorting Trouble - July 17th 1917

    The battle unfolds, they say a picture paints a thousand words, well here's 50 pictures that saved me writing a book!
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    Butchers Bill
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    2Lt Harry McKenzie: FLM - SEA -ET/ WIA / 0 kills
    Rolled 8 -2FLM -1SEA -1WIA = 5 Injured - Skip 1D3 Scenarios. Rolled 5 = Skip 3
    E&E Rolled 4 -1FLM -1WIA -1WIC -1BEL -1SEA = -1 Captured! The war ended for this pilot...

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    2Lt Stephen Wheeler/RTB/6 damage

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    Still afloat
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    Still afloat...just(?)/1 kill

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    2Lt P. H. Sanderson: FLM-SEA- ET/WIA/ 0 kills
    Rolled 9 -2FLM -1SEA -1WIA = 5 Injured - Skip 1D3 Scenarios. Rolled 4 = Skip 2
    E&E Rolled 7 -1FLM -1WIA -1WIC -1BEL -1SEA = 2 Captured! The war ended for this pilot...
    and
    Sgt E. Irvine: FLM-SEA-ET/0 kills
    Rolled 10 -2FLM -1SEA = 7 Bruised - Skip 1 Scenario
    E&E Rolled 8 -1FLM -1BEL -1SEA = 5 In hiding! - Skip 1D2 Scenarios. rolled 6 = Skip 2. Total skips 3

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    2Lt Herbert Martin RTB/0 kills 10 damage
    and
    2Lt George Johnston: RTB/WIA/0 kills
    Rolled 7 +3RTB -1WIA = 9 All well when you land well

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    2Lt Eric Boulton: SD-SEA-ET/2WIA/ 0 kills
    Rolled 9 -1SD -1SEA -2WIA = 5 Injured - Skip 1D3 Scenarios. Rolled 6 = Skip 3
    E&E: Rolled 7 -1SEA -1BEL -2WIA -1WIC = 2 Captured! The war ended for this pilot...

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    2lt D Redpath/2Lt M. Curphey/RTB/1 damage

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    Sigmund Goss/SD/Sea/Exp/1 kill: rolled 8-1(sea)-3(Exp)=4 = severly injured skip 1d6 rolled 6 = miss 6

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    Konrad Burgwachter/RTB/WIA/1 kill rolled 1+3 (safe return)-1(WIA = 3 severly injured rolled 6 miss 6

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    [B]Rikard Wagner/RTB/1 kill/Paul Greig/RTB

    2Lt Claude Tonkin: SD-SEA-ET/WIA/0 Kills
    Rolled 6 -1SD -1SEA -1WIA = 3 Severely Injured - Skip 1D6 Scenarios. Rolled 3 = Skip 3
    E&E: Rolled 5 -1SEA -1BEL -1WIA -1WIC = 1 Captured! The war ended for this pilot...
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    Last edited by Lt. S.Kafloc; 05-07-2016 at 14:14.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  2. #2

    Default

    All butchers bills updated Dave. Problem with this one was a number of pics did not come out as I missed Tonkins demise until I went through the complete set.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  3. #3

    Default

    Is Tonkin the first pic ? There's no name on that one & was it a flamer as the model still has flames on it ?
    Though that might be someone else !
    Last edited by flash; 05-04-2016 at 10:16.

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

    Default

    Tonkin flew the Camel with the red v on wing and went down by the U Boat.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Is Tonkin the first pic ? There's no name on that one & was it a flamer as the model still has flames on it ?
    Though that might be someone else !
    See you on the Dark Side......

  5. #5

    Default

    AAR Pics uploaded and names put to Butchers Bill pics.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  6. #6

    Question

    Bit confused Neil re Herr Goss.
    How can he have RTB after drawing the Explosion Card & the Pilot with two wounds (?) card as a result?

  7. #7

    Default

    When I pull the explosion card I draw from my own explosion result deck. So the outcome of the explosion (or additional damage) was pilot wound and 2 damage to aircraft, not 2 wounds. My explosion deck goes from zero damage to destruction in various degrees.

    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    Bit confused Neil re Herr Goss.
    How can he have RTB after drawing the Explosion Card & the Pilot with two wounds (?) card as a result?
    See you on the Dark Side......

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    When I pull the explosion card I draw from my own explosion result deck. So the outcome of the explosion (or additional damage) was pilot wound and 2 damage to aircraft, not 2 wounds. My explosion deck goes from zero damage to destruction in various degrees.
    Interesting. I was told not to use the random event chart I made for the BOOM card. I like having more options that cause troubles than just instant destruction. I'll use my chart from now on too.

  9. #9

    Default

    I've always used my 'explosion' deck in all my solo campaign games. Mind you one is 9+damage+fire+pilot wound.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    I've always used my 'explosion' deck in all my solo campaign games. Mind you one is 9+damage+fire+pilot wound.
    I have similar bad events. 36 different outcomes from not so bad (not many of those) to a real BOOM where planes in close range can take damage.
    Variety is the spice of life as they say.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Interesting. I was told not to use the random event chart I made for the BOOM card. I like having more options that cause troubles than just instant destruction. I'll use my chart from now on too.
    You were asked not to as it makes your stats redundant in comparison to the other players as your pilots do not take the same risk.
    I shall add you to the German Light(weight) Division !

    "He is wise who watches"

  12. #12

    Default

    That was one busy battle area Neil - hot lead flying in all directions - kites splashed all over, lovely stuff ! Good effort on the sub too !
    I have caught up with rolls for the Toms & added them to the tally - lots POW !

    "He is wise who watches"

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    You were asked not to as it makes your stats redundant in comparison to the other players as your pilots do not take the same risk.
    I shall add you to the German Light(weight) Division !
    If Neil can use a different system to have random BOOM results, why are his not as you say, redundant in comparison to other players as his pilots do not take the same risk?

  14. #14

    Default

    Close call for this submarine! Another bomb or two could have sunk her. Whew, lots of captured boys pulled from the drink.

  15. #15

    Default

    As the boom card to explosion deck is the same for both sides in my solo campaign I can't see a problem viz a vis anyone else using a similar system. In that regards it penalised our game not others.

    Am I now being told I cannot do this?
    See you on the Dark Side......

  16. #16

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    You were asked not to as it makes your stats redundant in comparison to the other players as your pilots do not take the same risk.
    I shall add you to the German Light(weight) Division !
    Yes I thought we were all supposed to use the Explosion card as the ultimate result as the Butchers Bill requires the -3 to be used in calculating the pilots survivability.

    If someone is "diluting" the Explosion result does this not effect the result.
    Last edited by gully_raker; 05-06-2016 at 05:11.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Close call for this submarine! Another bomb or two could have sunk her. Whew, lots of captured boys pulled from the drink.
    I thought hits that were not on the red dot were at half damage ?

    I think we needed a custom C deck (without so many zeros) for this mission to have a hope in hell of sinking that damn sub.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    If Neil can use a different system to have random BOOM results, why are his not, as you say, redundant in comparison to other players as his pilots do not take the same risk?
    They are. In any game where this occurs, whilst the results apply to both sides in his game, you cannot compare game results with other players. For instance if Neil's chap takes a boom, there's a chance he will stay operational, get more kills, skills, awards etc than your chap (currently), or, anyone else's in the same circumstance, who will certainly be downed and is more likely to be KIA or hors de combat for a time.

    "He is wise who watches"

  19. #19

    Default

    I've never looked at it in that way nor am I using the deck to promote longevity nor rack up huge scores for my pilots. If you followed the Late Campaign you would find the demise of many of my top scoring pilots, including my top ace and squadron leader.

    I also use a collision deck, in that respect I suppose that's wrong too.

    To quote from the rules:
    "The critical hit deck may be used for colour"

    The collision deck is given as an option.

    The links to various decks is also included in a later post in the rules thread. So if we can't use it why have the link?

    I will now go back through all my AARs and apply the minus 3 where appropriate.
    Last edited by Lt. S.Kafloc; 05-06-2016 at 02:01.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I thought hits that were not on the red dot were at half damage ?

    I think we needed a custom C deck (without so many zeros) for this mission to have a hope in hell of sinking that damn sub.
    All the bombs hitting the sub that I can see were covering the sub's red dot.

    Admitted this mission is not an easy one, as designed on purpose. You have to get all 12 bombs at full strength on the sub. With the average hits per C deck you will be one point short of sinking the sub, so you have to do one hit better than average to win.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    As the boom card to explosion deck is the same for both sides in my solo campaign I can't see a problem viz a vis anyone else using a similar system. In that regards it penalised our game not others.
    Thats how I have looked at it. Any random BOOM result deck/chart has the same effect on both sides in a battle, but if we are not all using the same system everyone else's overall results will be different. Then again, I doubt very much any two of us are playing by the same rules to begin with.

  22. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    I've never looked at it in that way nor am I using the deck to promote longevity nor rack up huge scores for my pilots. If you followed the Late Campaign you would find the demise of many of my top scoring pilots, including my top ace and squadron leader.

    I also use a collision deck, in that respect I suppose that's wrong too.

    To quote from the rules:
    "The critical hit deck may be used for colour"

    The collision deck is given as an option.

    The links to various decks is also included in a later post in the rules thread. So if we can't use it why have the link?

    I will now go back through all my AARs and apply the minus 3 where appropriate.
    The Critical hit deck referred to is Dons (LGKR) one that has the red & green skull results on - "The critical hit deck may be used for colour" was in specific reference to the words on those cards not the end result which we wanted to be rolled as usual and came well after you were using your deck.
    Whilst I appreciate you're not using your deck to promote longevity nor rack up huge scores for my pilots that could be an inadvertent result. This was all discussed between us years ago and you chose to use your deck. The link to your deck was not for campaign use but for easy access for those who wanted to have a look at it.
    Is it notable that you've lost 3 pilots KIA so far whereas Peter has lost 8 (though one has returned via a scenario) ? It's hard to say for sure as sometimes that's the way the mop flops but it could be.
    Last edited by flash; 05-06-2016 at 07:30.

    "He is wise who watches"

  23. #23

    Default

    I don't see any problem with Neil using his critical hit deck. His pilots and all his AI have the same chances.

    That said, we are playing solo campaigns vs a system, not against each other. Even as we are all playing against a system, this system is not the same for any of us. There are so many variables left to each of us and I doubt any two of us come close to playing the same system.

    How many random AI movement chart sets are there? Some by their construct are easier to fly against while some more difficult.
    The difference from firing from peg to base vs from peg to peg. Peg to base you get more shots and get shot at more.
    Choice of aircraft used in the scenarios makes a considerable difference on how the scenario plays out.
    Optional rules for Lewis and Parabellum loads, rudder jams losing turn cards, pilot wounds causing forced movements, observer rules knocking him down but not out, Some use altitude, some not. (a number of different altitude rules too) Not using altitude makes it easier to shoot and get shot at.

    Useful links are confusing...are they to be used or not?

    Playing with basic, advanced or optional rules in the actual rule book are to the players choice.

    We are all flying our battles and trying to write up interesting stories of them and our pilots exploits, for our own enjoyment and to share. We do this because we truly enjoy doing this. It is a labor of love. The time and effort put into one AAR can be staggering.
    I don't think anyone here at the moment is gaming the system trying to rack up their score. What does that get you anyway? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. (other than the reputation of being a jerk)

    There are sooooo many variables in our games there is no way to compare one's results to another. Why is this a concern anyway? Unless the whole set of rules we play, from top to bottom, are set in stone, we will all do things differently.

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    ... Unless the whole set of rules we play, from top to bottom, are set in stone, we will all do things differently.
    Now there's an idea...No, hold on.. We tried that and people did things differently anyway !
    Things have got quite diversified since OTT started and it was nice to think that even though we all play things slightly differently at least we could still do a few things together - like taking the dreaded boom card and the roll for the Tally to see where we all stood once the smoke had cleared. Sort of brought it all together for us I thought.
    Still, you can't please everybody; those who like that still will, those who don't won't. Simples

    Now, is there any danger that all you lot will write up the Butchers Tally correctly one day ?!!
    Last edited by flash; 05-06-2016 at 11:22.

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #25

    Default

    Given half the chance and people had waited then it would've been.

    Simples...3,2,1.........
    See you on the Dark Side......

  26. #26

    Default

    I think it would make some sense to start a new thread and discuss this a bit. I've resisted commenting because I didn't want to take the discussion away from Neil's fine AAR, but I think it would be beneficial to get a discussion going and see what people think.

  27. #27

    Exclamation

    Well not wanting to put a dampener on those who have made up their own "Explosion Result" decks which they use in other games, I believe in these campaigns we should all use the Explosion Card to give the -3 result to a pilot in the Butchers Bill regardless of what card is drawn from theses differing decks.

    If as flash indicated you all use the original "Critical Hit " deck then everyone will be playing to the same odds.
    However I will just use the Explosion Card & trust to a good old D6 for the pilots fate.

  28. #28

    Default

    I was considering pulling all the KIA results from that critical hit deck and just using the verbiage for colour.

    The scenario results would use our agreed on die rolls and results.

    I hope Neil's post that he is withdrawing is not due to this ...

  29. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by diceslinger View Post
    I think it would make some sense to start a new thread and discuss this a bit. I've resisted commenting because I didn't want to take the discussion away from Neil's fine AAR, but I think it would be beneficial to get a discussion going and see what people think.
    Good idea - Can we take any further comments into the Late War Campaign thread if you want to add anything more.
    If you want to respond to a specific post cut and paste Reply With Quote into there.

    "He is wise who watches"

  30. #30

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Good idea - Can we take any further comments into the Late War Campaign thread if you want to add anything more.
    If you want to respond to a specific post cut and paste Reply With Quote into there.



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